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      09-09-2010, 11:09 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
I dont care what BMW puts under the hood of the next gen M3.....because I know it will be faster
Fixed it for you . Actually the right word is 'quicker' IMO, since both will probably be limited to the same top speed. And no doubt the new M3 will be quicker. But a turbo 6 better than the S65 V8 just because it's going to make more power? Nope.
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      09-09-2010, 04:42 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Fixed it for you . Actually the right word is 'quicker' IMO, since both will probably be limited to the same top speed. And no doubt the new M3 will be quicker. But a turbo 6 better than the S65 V8 just because it's going to make more power? Nope.
like i said...I dont care....I have faith in BMW...they will not fuck up the M3!
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      09-09-2010, 04:59 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
like i said...I dont care....I have faith in BMW...they will not fuck up the M3!
Considering X5 M and X6 M are the biggest blunders M has ever made (and paying a heavy price because they bombed so badly sales-wise in the market), blind faith is not very relevant.

One thing M cars never were, cookie-cutter cars made with stuff from the parts bin. Sadly, now it is. M is coming to an end the way people know. It will now become Marketing and sales.
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      09-09-2010, 05:42 PM   #202
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I still think the entire point of the X5M and X6M was to cut development costs of the new M5/M6 engine by letting customers do extended testing for them.
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      09-10-2010, 12:42 AM   #203
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Wasn't there an article where ///M Boss said the new M3 may not necessarily have more HP than S65 but car will be lighter which negates the need for more power ?

I'll see if I can find the article.
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      09-10-2010, 01:19 AM   #204
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Considering X5 M and X6 M are the biggest blunders M has ever made (and paying a heavy price because they bombed so badly sales-wise in the market)
i dont understand what they are trying to accomplish by adding the M badge to those vehicles. I understand they are trying to make more money, but imo they priced themselves out of the market with those vehicles. i personally dont know a single person who would pay 85G+ for a sav or sac (...sac...). i feel like bmw is getting a little too greedy and im glad those M vehicles failed. it serves them right

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Wasn't there an article where ///M Boss said the new M3 may not necessarily have more HP than S65 .
That's disappointing, but i will still buy.
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      09-10-2010, 08:10 AM   #205
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RS4
Yes, there was the RS4. However, it was a very limited production car by comparison with no coupe available at all and the convertible saw extremely low production. You're right though, I should have made a footnote about it.
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      09-10-2010, 12:39 PM   #206
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its not blind faith at all....ever new M3 that has been released since its conception has been well received and continues to be the benchmark...and it will continue to do so....but thats IMHO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 330CIZHP View Post
Considering X5 M and X6 M are the biggest blunders M has ever made (and paying a heavy price because they bombed so badly sales-wise in the market), blind faith is not very relevant.

One thing M cars never were, cookie-cutter cars made with stuff from the parts bin. Sadly, now it is. M is coming to an end the way people know. It will now become Marketing and sales.
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      09-10-2010, 01:46 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
No way on V6... why would BMW throw away their most prized IP to redesign their engine line-up for a V6 strategy - doesn't make business sense whatsoever... therefore, it won't happen.
I can think of one possible reason -

Much like the S65 is based on the S85, the new M3 engine may be a V6 based on the V8 found in the X5M/X6M
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      09-10-2010, 02:16 PM   #208
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The only thing is, the S85 was already an M specific engine, so it made a good deal of sense to design another M specific engine using the same architecture. But the S63 V8 is based on the N63 V8. Meaning the development costs were far less than the S85 V10. So after adopting such a strategy for the M5, why would they turn around and then let costs balloon for the lower priced M3? It doesn't really make sense if you look at the broad picture. F1x 550i gets the N63, and F10 M5 gets the S63. So if F3x 340i (or 335i) gets the N55, then F3x M3 get the S55. Now, if by some crazy turn of events the new F3x 3 series gets a V6, then yes, I agree the M3 would then gets its own V6 based upon it. But strongly doubt that will happen.

Quote:
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I can think of one possible reason -

Much like the S65 is based on the S85, the new M3 engine may be a V6 based on the V8 found in the X5M/X6M
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      09-10-2010, 03:49 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
I don't know... maybe you're right but I just don't see this happening. And anytime I hear V6 all I can think of is Honda and Saab (GM.)

BMW won't abandon their I6 philosophy, especially not for an M car. The I6 has a longer block which the M division has stated it prefers to attain their famous 50/50 weight distribution. A "V" is one thing for an 8 or a ten cylinder car where it becomes practically necessary. But for a 6 cylinder car, no such need exists. Together with the fact that BMW has lauded the "I" for almost its entire history of making 6 cylinder engines... I would place serious money on the fact that the forthcoming M (assuming it does in fact come in at 6 cylinders) will sport an "I" formation.

Time will tell.
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      09-10-2010, 06:41 PM   #210
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But for a 6 cylinder car, no such need exists.
Of course it does, especially with new pedestrian crash standards. It's a long engine to begin with. Plus if it needs more displacement (3.5L) to compete, not to mention higher revs, that means a shorter stroke, both contributing to an even longer engine. That also means a larger and heavier car, which is the direction everybody wants reversed. It's going to be interesting which way BMW finally goes. If they stay I6, they'd have to really max it out, and it'll eventually have to be replaced anyway.

My prediction is BMW will obviously keep the I6 tradition, but not on Ms. Everybody has V8s and V10s, so why not V6s? They just need to make it better, and/or different .
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      09-11-2010, 02:34 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Fixed it for you . Actually the right word is 'quicker' IMO, since both will probably be limited to the same top speed. And no doubt the new M3 will be quicker. But a turbo 6 better than the S65 V8 just because it's going to make more power? Nope.
Agreed....but if they can make the new engine sound as good (or better) rev almost as high while delivering more bhp and torque whilst reducing fuel consumption and Co2 then its game on - if anyone can pull it off its ///M Gmbh. The M3 has always been an iconic car that represents the BMW philosophy across the brand - they simply cannot afford to come up short, and i don't think they will.
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      09-11-2010, 10:30 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
I don't know... maybe you're right but I just don't see this happening. And anytime I hear V6 all I can think of is Honda and Saab (GM.)
As much as I dislike the idea of a V6, it may be on the cards for BMW.

I take the example of the R34 GTR to R35 GTR.

They transitioned from their infamous RB26 Straight Six into a V6 with thinner cylinder wall made possible by plasma coating.

Needless to say the performance churned out pretty good numbers.

You can make an easy 500hp from simple bolt on modifications and yes, that is with 400cc lesser in displacement to the N55.

However Nissan dropped their Straight Six in favour of a V6. I would suspect this is for moving weight to the centre of mass.
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      09-11-2010, 10:32 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by M3 Pilot View Post
As much as I dislike the idea of a V6, it may be on the cards for BMW.

I take the example of the R34 GTR to R35 GTR.

They transitioned from their infamous RB26 Straight Six into a V6 with thinner cylinder wall made possible by plasma coating.

Needless to say the performance churned out pretty good numbers.

You can make an easy 500hp from simple bolt on modifications and yes, that is with 400cc lesser in displacement to the N55.

However Nissan dropped their Straight Six in favour of a V6. I would suspect this is for moving weight to the centre of mass.
Yeah that Plasma walled cyl's was developed by Ford. Nissan bought it. It was first used in the Ford GT and is now in the 2011 GT500 alum block V8. Pretty wicked tech.
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      09-11-2010, 11:04 PM   #214
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Yeah that Plasma walled cyl's was developed by Ford. Nissan bought it. It was first used in the Ford GT and is now in the 2011 GT500 alum block V8. Pretty wicked tech.
Did Ford mention at XYZ miles it will require recoating again ?

There has been speculations that in factory form, the plasma coating on R35 should be lifetime (300k km). However once you put more power through the engine, the lifespan shortens depending on how much power goes through.

Without detracting too much off topic, plasma coating is a great technology. When you put more power through an engine, there will be other pertinent components that we should be worried.
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      09-11-2010, 11:23 PM   #215
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Did Ford mention at XYZ miles it will require recoating again ?

There has been speculations that in factory form, the plasma coating on R35 should be lifetime (300k km). However once you put more power through the engine, the lifespan shortens depending on how much power goes through.

Without detracting too much off topic, plasma coating is a great technology. When you put more power through an engine, there will be other pertinent components that we should be worried.
Well I read that Ford initially didn't use the technology because it would flake off (I think it was something like 60k miles on the 5.4L 500hp), then developed a special procedure to apply it that fixed the issue. However, they did not sell that application procedure technology to Nissan. I'm not sure if it will have the flaking issues on the V6 in the same time frame that it did on the V8. The flaking isn't serious until it reaches a certain point but my guess is 100k miles might be about as good as it gets unless Nissan developed a similar procedure. It's the only reason the GT500 didn't come in an aluminum block in 2007. The procedure was very secret and I think Ford admitted that it was used on the Ford GT and were awaiting a patent until they used it on the GT500 or something like that, or to make the application process cheaper.

So depends on how nissan applies it. Only thing I know about the special application Ford developed is that it's something like 3200 degrees molten application or something way beyond my pea brain comprehension.
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      09-12-2010, 01:15 AM   #216
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Quote:
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Agreed....but if they can make the new engine sound as good (or better) rev almost as high while delivering more bhp and torque whilst reducing fuel consumption and Co2 then its game on - if anyone can pull it off its ///M Gmbh. The M3 has always been an iconic car that represents the BMW philosophy across the brand - they simply cannot afford to come up short, and i don't think they will.
i agree with this. i dont imagine them dropping the ball on a M car (excluding the x5m and x6m )
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      01-25-2011, 10:57 AM   #217
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I wish BMW would keep the M engines normally aspirated, but alas fuel economy dictates otherwise.
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      01-25-2011, 01:57 PM   #218
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I dont care what BMW puts under the hood of the next gen M3.....because I know it will be better and faster than the current....I dont think BMW will screw this up...look at the track record!!!!...sheeshk!...have faith!
I also, like you, had faith until the 1 Series M Coupé (E82) was revealed.
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