Next Gen F30/F32 M3 Lineup Selected. M3 Gran Coupe, M3 Touring, X3M and X4M Coming

[aus]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

You will never understand where I am coming from.......and that is ok. But if you are confused and think ///M SUV's are fun and look hot, then you and I will absolutely never see eye-to-eye.

Cheers,
e46e92

I agree completely. Most people here don't have any idea about what at //M car used to represent. There was a great article with the guy who used to run //M, before Segler destroyed the brand.
He commented that the //M philosophy is a relatively lightweight, rear drive, car which would rule out any SUV or a 7 series. The engine would have to be NA and high revving, like a race car. The new //M's have NONE of these attributes.

Most people who buy //M's now are just a product of the success of the brand and the marketing.
I ask a friend to go to the track (not that I'm admitting to taking this car to the track), and he say's he just got his car detailed, so doesn't want to go since it may ding his paint. Meanwhile, he tells other people how he goes for these awesome drives with other M3 guys.
That's the new //M owner.

It's also too bad they won't do the sedan. I make use of all 3 seats in my wife's 335 and was thinking of getting and E90 M3 when my lease ends so she could get something else. This way I could take the family to a track event too.

.

[Definitive]

E90 M3 to the X3M to the F30 M3

All I can say is -----

[lux]

M3 Gran Coupe FTW!!! I look forward to seeing future spy shots and the next gen engine choice. So it looks like I got 5 more years to mod my e90 until my next ride.

[ihyln]

Looks like BMW finally listened and dropped the M3 GT idea. A gran coupe is much more favorable and a decent compromise between having 4 doors and nothing. I still wish they would stick with N/A. I find FI disappointing, boring, DI introduces carbon buildup, and as BMW has shown us with the HPFP, quite problematic. "greener" isn't better in some cases

[swamp2]

It just like music. When no one knew about Nirvana and you saw them live with Hole in a small club in Tijuana they were epic. Later, when every jock and joe-jerk-off whom they sang about and despised liked them, some of their immense appeal was absolutely gone.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Everyone seems to be convergently evolving toward the same government-issue powerplant.

Didn't we agree that cost savings have just as much or more to do with the future direction of M engines as opposed to government regulation? No, I remember, we did not agree . Nonetheless it is so. Either way there is simply no evidence showing a true forcing hand from government. Hasn't there also been some general consensus among the more well informed (and better guessers) here that BMW continues to build top notch engines and will probably offer some very strong innovation in the next M3 engine?

[MI6]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

M3 will remain.

Despite the Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe being renamed 4er.
The key is Individuality. M3 is not just a faster 3er it is a totally different car , drives differently and does not even have the same drivetrain.

Scott, when is the 4er Gran Coupe expected to premiere?

Same time or a little after the F32 in 2013?

[808E90]

Dang This is making me really think twice about selling my E90 M3 ...

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SamS

If this new ///M engine (which will be the basis for so many other halo 3-series M vehicles thru 2016) is going to debut with the new X3M, that just doesn't seem very plausible!

In other words, a brand new, hi-tech engine would debut in a M3 coupe, or gran coupe or something other than an older 3-platform SUV that got turned into an ///M.

Words like "brand new" and "hi-tech" sort of muddy the waters. Let's just keep this simple.

The X3M is going to debut a brand new M-specific 6 cylinder engine. This engine will be based upon an existing series engine, but have many M specific features. Later, this engine - probably with some modifications - wil also be used in the M3 (in all its various body styles). To see an analogous scenario that has already played out in real life, simply look at the X5 M and X6 M. They debuted an M-developed S63 V8 which shares many parts (including the entire long-block, AFAIK, though don't quote me on that), with the N63 V8 used in the 5, 6, 7, X5, X6. This engine was then repurposed for duty in the new (imminent) M5 and soon will be used in the new M6 as well, including all of its variants (coupe, convertible, Gran Coupe).

(And BTW, the new X3 is not using an "older 3 platform". It was the first vehicle built and released on the modular F2x/F3x platform, that will underpin every single small and medium RWD BMW for the next few years.)

I think that, while there's nothing to prove that what happened so far as far as the 5/6-sized vehicles dictates what will come next with the 3/4-sized vehicles, with SCOTT's latest info there's not much point to continue a debate on it, IMHO. If you don't believe it yet, you will soon. In the meantime keep examining the writing on the wall and trying to accept it.

Now there is still one big question. And that is, will this new M engine be an I6 based on the N55 (or perhaps based on a future I6 engine that replaces the N55) or will it instead be a V6 based on an N63 (or perhaps a future V8 that replaces the N63) with two less cylinders? I've made it pretty clear in various other threads which of these two I think makes the most sense, and therefore which of these two I think will come to pass. However, the debate is still very much open and there seems to be some pretty passionate folks on both sides.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

M3 will remain.

Despite the Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe being renamed 4er.
The key is Individuality. M3 is not just a faster 3er it is a totally different car , drives differently and does not even have the same drivetrain.

That's some pretty big news. Last I'd heard from you SCOTT, it sounded like they had planned on keeping the 3 series name for the F3x-based coupes. I'm actually pleased to hear that this is being reconsidered (I won't consider the decision final yet - it seems to change a lot ).

I agree with the others that keeping the M3 name for the 4-series-based M products will be a little strange and confusing, but I suppose that is probably not final yet anyway. One thing I would point out is that, since an F31 3-series-based M product is apparently being planned, that should rightly take the M3 name. But of course, that will cause a great deal of unrest, even though Audi has let their RS4 Avant carry the perforamce torch for generations with great success, and apparently plans to do this again for an upcoming B8 or B9 RS4. Anyway, though, my point is that this would at least allow the M3 name to live on while the M4 name takes over for the coupes and convertible.

Another possibility: why not just keep the coupe in the 3 series lineup and put just the convertible and the new Gran Coupe into the new 4 series lineup? Then the iconic 3 series coupe and M3 coupe can remain, while the other two body styles break new ground with the 4 moniker.

Originally Posted by Mako

A7 is more like a GT than a gran coupe.

Yes and no. While I've recently compared the A7 to the 5GT in some posts myself, it seems to me that Audi intends the A7 to sort of straddle the four door coupe and 5 door hatchback segments. It is obviously a 5 door in function, but in form they have done a nice job of aping the CLS. Frankly they've done such a great job (IMHO) that BMW and Mercedes should take notice and be on guard. They look set to sucessfully kill two birds with one stone. That said, I think while the A7 makes the 5GT look like a clunky, chunky, mess, the upcoming 6 GC is probably going to have it all over both the A7 and the Mercedes CLS. In other words, BMW may have its day yet, and have its way yet for that matter.

Originally Posted by swamp2

Didn't we agree that cost savings have just as much or more to do with the future direction of M engines as opposed to government regulation? No, I remember, we did not agree . Nonetheless it is so. Either way there is simply no evidence showing a true forcing hand from government.

I'm not going to debate it again, swamp. Rationale and reasoning aside, the world is moving toward mroe efficient engines and it does not take a genuis to see that similar techniques are being employed across the industry.

Hasn't there also been some general consensus among the more well informed (and better guessers) here that BMW continues to build top notch engines and will probably offer some very strong innovation in the next M3 engine?

Absolutely. My comment was more about the volume engines. Also, BMW could probably build some awesome engines out of driftwood and silly putty if they had to. It wouldn't make us miss our good ol' aluminum ones any less.

Originally Posted by MI6

Scott, when is the 4er Gran Coupe expected to premiere? Same time or a little after the F32 in 2013?

In case he doesn't chime in, I believe it will hit an auto show in late 2014 or early 2015.

[Definitive]

I cant see BMW changing their best selling car's moniker. That would just be dumb, Everyone knows the 3 series.

Thats like ford changing the "mustang", to "stallion" for 2013???

People would be like WTF?

D

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Definitive

I cant see BMW changing their best selling car's moniker. That would just be dumb, Everyone knows the 3 series.

The best selling car is the 3 series, true. But, specifically, it is the 3 series sedan. Lots of other BMW models sell more than the 3 series coupe and convertible, however, including things like the 5 series sedan the X1 and the X3.

BMW has no intention of doing away with the 3 series sedan (or touring). The proposed changes would simply move the 2-doors 3 series models under a new 4 series umbrella along with the brand new F3x Gran Coupe. The move could easily have a positive effect on sales - both in allowing these models to receive a more clear marketing message, and giving them a slighly more upmarket appeal vs. the ubiquitous 3 series sedan.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by Booster

Bring that wagon to the US!!!!

HELL yeah!!!

[Definitive]

Ahh interesting. Makes sense.

[ploo]

F3x M3 "editions..." which, even if more desirable (a la E46 CSL) than E9x Editions, will probably never make it to the states. I'm still annoyed that i never got the chance to collect an E46 CSL, it would still be in my garage today.

[sameh]

Can anyone confirm that the new Rs5 is coming out with a 500HP V8 biturbo?? I'm not changing the subject. If yes, then all these speculations are waaay premature and not on the right track..MHO

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by sameh

Can anyone confirm that the new Rs5 is coming out with a 500HP V8 biturbo?? I'm not changing the subject. If yes, then all these speculations are waaay premature and not on the right track..MHO

Nope, sameh my boy, no one can confirm that. The reason is that that car is so far off that a final decision is unlikely to have been made yet.

Audi does have an engine coming with that spec, but currently it is only known to be in the S8, and speculated for the RS6 and RS7. Sure they could drop it in an RS4/RS5 too, but that's not very Audi-like to share the engine across so many different segments. IMHO a V6 with FI makes much more sense for the sub-A6 vehicles. That's complete speculation though.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I'm not going to debate it again, swamp. Rationale and reasoning aside, the world is moving toward mroe efficient engines and it does not take a genuis to see that similar techniques are being employed across the industry.

Sure, there is no debate on the observation of trends. Minimally I just think your "government issue" is WAY too strong of a statement, practically I call it a falsity.

[SIIK2NR]

Beautiful work. Takes talent to mod like that.

[persian54]

my lease ends in 2013... guess I'll be getting a GTR or a Porsche afterwards

[redline9001]

Originally Posted by sameh

Can anyone confirm that the new Rs5 is coming out with a 500HP V8 biturbo?? I'm not changing the subject. If yes, then all these speculations are waaay premature and not on the right track..MHO

i thought the RS5 was coming with a 444hp 4.2L N/A?

[redline9001]

Originally Posted by persian54

my lease ends in 2013... guess I'll be getting a GTR or a Porsche afterwards

I dont understand these comments? you dont want a turbo 6 M3 but you will buy a turbo 6 from the other 2?

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by kmarei

"will replace the sedan "
i guess that means you better buy your E90s while you can

June 15th is the last day to put an e90 M3 order in...