Sold ESS kit to shady member

deansbimmer · 08-30-2016, 09:07 AM

REFUND HIM!

SPR doesn't seem to have a clue about how things work if he is threatening to go to AMEX. I deal with paypal daily with hundreds of transactions. Paypal protects the buyer 100%. Period. Since he sent funds as goods, all he has to do is file a claim with Paypal at any point and paypal will remove the funds from your account (even if your account is empty) and Paypal will refund the fees- you don't eat anything, you're not out any money. You MUST use the refund function in the original transactions if you send money back. If you send money to him separately he can still file a claim for the original transactions and you'll be out twice as much until you spend hours with Paypal proving otherwise. It would be very unwise to attempt to only give him a partial refund. I haven't read into your entire situation but there seems to be no reason to do anything other than get rid of him with a full refund.

I don't usually post to threads like this but I'm worried for you. This whole thing stinks to high heaven- two receiving accounts, multiple refunds and resends.... I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. You are lucky you still have the goods. You need to suck it up, lose the sale and get rid of SPR from your life. He obviously got buyers remorse. To those saying he entered into a "contract" are kidding themselves. No paperwork was duly signed, no terms were set in writing, and even if there were- Paypal doesn't care about YOUR terms if they conflict with THEIR terms of use. Trying to hold a buyers feet to the fire NEVER works out for the seller. They'll give the buyer back all of his money the second he requests so. The ONLY time Paypal will protect the buyer is if you prove he has the merchandise- which is a battle by itself.

Rob S. · 08-30-2016, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

REFUND HIM!

SPR doesn't seem to have a clue about how things work if he is threatening to go to AMEX. I deal with paypal daily with hundreds of transactions. Paypal protects the buyer 100%. Period. Since he sent funds as goods, all he has to do is file a claim with Paypal at any point and paypal will remove the funds from your account (even if your account is empty) and Paypal will refund the fees- you don't eat anything, you're not out any money. You MUST use the refund function in the original transactions if you send money back. If you send money to him separately he can still file a claim for the original transactions and you'll be out twice as much until you spend hours with Paypal proving otherwise. It would be very unwise to attempt to only give him a partial refund. I haven't read into your entire situation but there seems to be no reason to do anything other than get rid of him with a full refund.

I don't usually post to threads like this but I'm worried for you. This whole thing stinks to high heaven- two receiving accounts, multiple refunds and resends.... I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. You are lucky you still have the goods. You need to suck it up, lose the sale and get rid of SPR from your life. He obviously got buyers remorse. To those saying he entered into a "contract" are kidding themselves. No paperwork was duly signed, no terms were set in writing, and even if there were- Paypal doesn't care about YOUR terms if they conflict with THEIR terms of use. Trying to hold a buyers feet to the fire NEVER works out for the seller. They'll give the buyer back all of his money the second he requests so. The ONLY time Paypal will protect the buyer is if you prove he has the merchandise- which is a battle by itself.

I used the refund function in both original transactions. In 1 transaction i sent a full refund (2800 dollar) and in 1 transaction i sent back partial refund of 2581 dollar. The WORST thing that can happen now is that i still will need to pay the 219 dollar after all is said and done. But i provided paypal with all the information to prove he is wrong and he agreed with partial refund. I will keep you guys updated! I also sent a PM to a moderator about this issue, they should ban people like this.....

Properstyle · 08-30-2016, 10:01 AM

I've dealt with this type of issue twice already and paypal will back the seller if he has all his ducks in arow, if you all came to an agreed amount for refund and you have that as a screen shot from his user name you are fint.

X5-User · 08-30-2016, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Properstyle

I've dealt with this type of issue twice already and paypal will back the seller if he has all his ducks in arow, if you all came to an agreed amount for refund and you have that as a screen shot from his user name you are fint.

That's interesting to know as I know 100% Paypal will backup the buyer no matter what (happened to me many times).

I am monitoring this thread to see the outcome. I do hope it comes in favor of the seller to teach buyers like those a lesson.

whats77inaname · 08-30-2016, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

What made you think he was going to suddenly be honest during the refund process. You should have never agreed to a refund.

Because there are those of us who, even in this day and age, try to take people at their word and give them the benefit of the doubt. And sometimes we get burned, but that's okay; karma eventually catches up to them.

Rob S. · 08-30-2016, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Because there are those of us who, even in this day and age, try to take people at their word and give them the benefit of the doubt. And sometimes we get burned, but that's okay; but karma eventually catches up to them.

Exactly. Plus i was afraid that when i would ship the kit he would just not accept the package and then it would be sent back to me. I rather sent the kit to someone who i can trust.

I documented and described everything really, really well. So if paypal still decides in his favor then this is probably the last time i used paypal. Like i said the worst that can happen right now is that i will still need to pay the 219 dollar that i did not refund him. Still no big issue, but i really hope paypal decides in my favor to teach this a**hole a lesson.

Properstyle · 08-30-2016, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer-M3

That's interesting to know as I know 100% Paypal will backup the buyer no matter what (happened to me many times).

I am monitoring this thread to see the outcome. I do hope it comes in favor of the seller to teach buyers like those a lesson.

I had a guy who I sold a AEM v2 ecu who mid way in shipping ask me to buy it back for it got to his house. then suddenly when it did it had a chipp on the connector yet the box was intact, you could see the chip was fresh. I contacted paypal with screen shots of these messages and told them I was pay for a repair but it would have to be sent to aem to do so. The buyer refused and wanted it sent back and full refund. PAYPAL denied his claim as it showed it was buyer remorse and he had damaged the item to get money back.

Rat3d ///M · 08-30-2016, 01:46 PM

May I ask why you felt you were entitled to keep $219 of the buyers money?

E90Dave · 08-30-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

May I ask why you felt you were entitled to keep $219 of the buyers money?

Because he boxed everything up... etc.

I'm scratching my head on this one too.

Refund the entire thing and be done with it. Who wants to deal with this over $200?

DJiGGs · 08-30-2016, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

May I ask why you felt you were entitled to keep $219 of the buyers money?

because 1. he spent the time to get this ready and could have potentially lost another sale due to a customer not knowing what he wants.

2. He could of just sent the kit out and and kept the money.

3. This will teach the buyer that you cant just go around saying you'll purchase something then back out with false accusations AFTER you already sent the money. Don't commit to something you can't buy. If the guy was to buy from ESS directly i can guarantee they would charge him a higher restocking fee than the $219 OP charged.

What if OP didnt see the guys message and sent it out... what happens then.

now if the guy wasn't such a douche bag and sent something like "hey man sorry something came up I don't have the funds i put aside for a this kit I'm really sorry I hope this wasn't too much of an inconvenience"

But again that's my opinion, some people would handle it differently, to each their own.

With him keeping a small portion of the transaction he is going to have to deal with how this guy reacts.

Sneaky Pete · 08-31-2016, 07:02 AM

Doesn't Paypal refund the fee if the transaction is cancelled?

oolas3 · 08-31-2016, 07:21 AM

Why should the seller be out $219 because the buyer broke the deal!? The seller did the buyer a huge favor and shouldn't lose a penny on the deal. It's not like the seller can recover this fee from the next buyer.

Patrón · 08-31-2016, 09:46 AM

What a huge waste of time over $200

Rat3d ///M · 08-31-2016, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

Why should the seller be out $219 because the buyer broke the deal!? The seller did the buyer a huge favor and shouldn't lose a penny on the deal. It's not like the seller can recover this fee from the next buyer.

The seller wouldn't lose any money..that's the problem I have. He made $219 off of the buyer and lost nothing but his time. You do know PayPal refunds any fees they charge when you refund the money you received right? That's why I dont think it's right. Seller would have to box the kit up to ship to any buyer anyway so that's a poor excuse. A restocking fee? It's a private sale lol. But whatever. Buyer was cool losing money and seller was cool taking it so doesn't change the way my breakfast tastes in the morning

oolas3 · 08-31-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

The seller wouldn't lose any money..that's the problem I have. He made $219 off of the buyer and lost nothing but his time. You do know PayPal refunds any fees they charge when you refund the money you received right? That's why I dont think it's right. Seller would have to box the kit up to ship to any buyer anyway so that's a poor excuse. A restocking fee? It's a private sale lol. But whatever. Buyer was cool losing money and seller was cool taking it so doesn't change the way my breakfast tastes in the morning

No I didn't know that. That would change my opinion. I didn't realize paypal refunds the fee. To me a refund means you don't lose any money but you don't make any either.

Mdriv3r · 08-31-2016, 08:59 PM

Dude, refund the money and take a small loss. Either way, he and you are //M drivers. Explain the story here and someone may buy your kit plus the $200 you have lost. Just make sure your honest and take snaps of all the parts, as people on here don't mess around with our cars. That being said, you should be able to sell it easily, since it is discounted quite a bit.

Rob S. · 09-01-2016, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premo

Dude, refund the money and take a small loss. Either way, he and you are //M drivers. Explain the story here and someone may buy your kit plus the $200 you have lost. Just make sure your honest and take snaps of all the parts, as people on here don't mess around with our cars. That being said, you should be able to sell it easily, since it is discounted quite a bit.

Lol i really wish it was easy to sell a kit like this (especially living overseas). It took months and months before i finally got a acceptable offer. Most "m drivers" here are lowballers. I dont even remember how many offers of "i can give you 3500 dollar" i got.

Mdriv3r · 09-01-2016, 02:04 AM

Sorry to hear that man. Good luck with whichever choice you make. If you refund, just do a good inspection. If not, I am sure it will be super complicated. Do you actually have the kit with you???

Can you post pics of you do refund it?

Rob S. · 09-02-2016, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

The seller wouldn't lose any money..that's the problem I have. He made $219 off of the buyer and lost nothing but his time. You do know PayPal refunds any fees they charge when you refund the money you received right? That's why I dont think it's right. Seller would have to box the kit up to ship to any buyer anyway so that's a poor excuse. A restocking fee? It's a private sale lol. But whatever. Buyer was cool losing money and seller was cool taking it so doesn't change the way my breakfast tastes in the morning

You need to stop talking about stuff you have no idea about. Just quit making false assumptions

The buyer paid me 2 x 2800 dollar (2 different paypal accounts) and on only 1 account i already lost 141 euro (158 dollar) because of the refund (valuta exchange rate etc). As i said the money was NOT in my paypal account anymore, it was already in my bank account. IF i also lose the other claim i will lose 2 x 158 dollar = 316 dollar. I should have just shipped the kit to this a**hole.

Rat3d ///M · 09-02-2016, 05:20 AM

Any difference in exchange rate is not an issue with PayPal that's an issue with the economy. No one argued that you didn't lose money due to the exchange rate being in the buyers favor now that the sale is complete. If that were the case you shouldve been more clear to avoid the confusion and i can understand why you would keep a small portion of the buyers mone. Nit for a restocking fee or for your "trouble" though. All I said was that you didn't get charged PayPal fees because PayPal refunds any fees they collect when a refund is made to the person sending money. If you were in fact charged paypal fees then you are doing it wrong.

Thanks for trying to school me on how PayPal and exchange rates work though but I think I got that lesson covered.

08-30-2016, 09:07 AM	#45
deansbimmer BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 3769 Rep 2,912 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: DFW, Texas iTrader: (17) Garage List 1988 BMW M3 [0.00] 2013 BMW M3 [0.00] 2011 X5M [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	REFUND HIM! SPR doesn't seem to have a clue about how things work if he is threatening to go to AMEX. I deal with paypal daily with hundreds of transactions. Paypal protects the buyer 100%. Period. Since he sent funds as goods, all he has to do is file a claim with Paypal at any point and paypal will remove the funds from your account (even if your account is empty) and Paypal will refund the fees- you don't eat anything, you're not out any money. You MUST use the refund function in the original transactions if you send money back. If you send money to him separately he can still file a claim for the original transactions and you'll be out twice as much until you spend hours with Paypal proving otherwise. It would be very unwise to attempt to only give him a partial refund. I haven't read into your entire situation but there seems to be no reason to do anything other than get rid of him with a full refund. I don't usually post to threads like this but I'm worried for you. This whole thing stinks to high heaven- two receiving accounts, multiple refunds and resends.... I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. You are lucky you still have the goods. You need to suck it up, lose the sale and get rid of SPR from your life. He obviously got buyers remorse. To those saying he entered into a "contract" are kidding themselves. No paperwork was duly signed, no terms were set in writing, and even if there were- Paypal doesn't care about YOUR terms if they conflict with THEIR terms of use. Trying to hold a buyers feet to the fire NEVER works out for the seller. They'll give the buyer back all of his money the second he requests so. The ONLY time Paypal will protect the buyer is if you prove he has the merchandise- which is a battle by itself.
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08-30-2016, 10:01 AM	#47
Properstyle Major 506 Rep 1,385 Posts Drives: 2011 e90 ZCP m3 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Killeen, TX iTrader: (0)	I've dealt with this type of issue twice already and paypal will back the seller if he has all his ducks in arow, if you all came to an agreed amount for refund and you have that as a screen shot from his user name you are fint. __________________ 2011 E90m3 ESS G2, active auto x pipe, RK FULL E85, DD 2015 X5M Bootmod3, Downpipes, Mineral white-The wifes DD 1994 300zx 2jz Swapped slicktop- The toy/track car
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08-30-2016, 01:46 PM	#52
Rat3d ///M 997.1TT 1009 Rep 1,672 Posts Drives: 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Germany iTrader: (1)	May I ask why you felt you were entitled to keep $219 of the buyers money?
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08-31-2016, 07:02 AM	#55
Sneaky Pete First Lieutenant 104 Rep 305 Posts Drives: M car Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Wild blue yonder iTrader: (0)	Doesn't Paypal refund the fee if the transaction is cancelled?
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08-31-2016, 07:21 AM	#56
oolas3 Captain 388 Rep 876 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: May 2015 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Why should the seller be out $219 because the buyer broke the deal!? The seller did the buyer a huge favor and shouldn't lose a penny on the deal. It's not like the seller can recover this fee from the next buyer.
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08-31-2016, 09:46 AM	#57
Patrón PAZUZU 545 Rep 2,058 Posts Drives: '15 M4 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: San Antonio, TX iTrader: (1) Garage List 2015 BMW M4 [0.00] 2009 BMW M3 [10.00]	What a huge waste of time over $200 __________________ 2009 M3 DCT ESS625+ SOLD 2015 M4 BSM/Silverstone F4LCON @texasMclub IG @jagemoets
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08-31-2016, 08:59 PM	#60
Mdriv3r First Lieutenant 150 Rep 396 Posts Drives: F13 M6 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Great Lakes iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 F13 M6 Competi ... [9.58] 2005 E46 330Ci [0.00]	Dude, refund the money and take a small loss. Either way, he and you are //M drivers. Explain the story here and someone may buy your kit plus the $200 you have lost. Just make sure your honest and take snaps of all the parts, as people on here don't mess around with our cars. That being said, you should be able to sell it easily, since it is discounted quite a bit.
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09-01-2016, 02:04 AM	#62
Mdriv3r First Lieutenant 150 Rep 396 Posts Drives: F13 M6 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Great Lakes iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 F13 M6 Competi ... [9.58] 2005 E46 330Ci [0.00]	Sorry to hear that man. Good luck with whichever choice you make. If you refund, just do a good inspection. If not, I am sure it will be super complicated. Do you actually have the kit with you??? Can you post pics of you do refund it?
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09-02-2016, 05:20 AM	#64
Rat3d ///M 997.1TT 1009 Rep 1,672 Posts Drives: 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Germany iTrader: (1)	Any difference in exchange rate is not an issue with PayPal that's an issue with the economy. No one argued that you didn't lose money due to the exchange rate being in the buyers favor now that the sale is complete. If that were the case you shouldve been more clear to avoid the confusion and i can understand why you would keep a small portion of the buyers mone. Nit for a restocking fee or for your "trouble" though. All I said was that you didn't get charged PayPal fees because PayPal refunds any fees they collect when a refund is made to the person sending money. If you were in fact charged paypal fees then you are doing it wrong. Thanks for trying to school me on how PayPal and exchange rates work though but I think I got that lesson covered.
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