I own a 135i,should I get an m3?

[330CIZHP]

Having driven both cars extensively, it is not even a question.

If you can afford the M3, trade in your 135 (just so many x35 owners have traded in their x35 for M3 and never looked back. I know atleast 20 on this board. Not one of them talks about their 335. You can ask them for their unbiased opinions on this board). A superior car is a superior car. End of story!!!

Don't buy some of these fanboi bullsh*t of some x35 owners on here. Take it from an impartial 3-series owner, 135/335 feels and sounds boring as f*ck like a family sedan with 6 banger in it! My 330 CI ZHP with ZHP tuned exhaust sounds a lot nicer than the stock 335.

M3 is just in a different league and the high-revving engine sound is to die for. It sounds and acts like a race car.

[cpiguy]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

Honestly, it just seems like BMW owners across the board think that their car is far more impressive than it really is.

Most people in car clubs, when they see a 335, think : "meh"
Most people in car clubs, when they see an M3, think : "meh"

There's a world of better stuff out there.
Watching people all over this board gloat about how much sicker their car is than <car whatever>, is sad.

As far as 'jap' tuning goes : I'll take an 8 second track tuned evo over an M3 any day. It's not even a question. Straight line or handling.

My 335 is not an 'impersonation M'. I honestly couldn't care less about having an M.
It's simply a daily driver that's fun, zippy, and doesn't drive my GF mad.
Originally the interior made a great impression. But now I'm so used to it...

I know people with cars so much faster than my 335 that I know damn well where my place is in the 'who's faster' pecking order (FYI, it's not M3s that make up most of the 'faster' list.). You won't see me coming up to someone acting like hot shit.

And as far as "M3's amazing handling and dynamics" go... I would have upgraded the suspension on an M3 regardless. It's sloppy.

-scheherazade

-1,000,000

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

M3 is just in a different league and the high-revving engine sound is to die for. It sounds and acts like a race car to someone who has never driven a real race car.

Fixed

[RevFreak14]

135i is a nice car and with the right mods can be just as fast as the M3. However the M3 is a big boy's car. You can mod a 135 and a 335 all you want, they will never handle or have the same feel as the M3. Nor will you ever get the same exhaust note as you do from the NA V8. If your finances permit, pull the trigger. Next generation M3 is going to I-6 turbo , Don't know about you but when they do that, they'll be getting away from what has made the M cars great. My current M will be my last.

[Optherion]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

Honestly, it just seems like BMW owners across the board think that their car is far more impressive than it really is.
As far as 'jap' tuning goes : I'll take an 8 second track tuned evo over an M3 any day. It's not even a question. Straight line or handling.

It's simply a daily driver that's fun, zippy, and doesn't drive my GF mad.
Originally the interior made a great impression. But now I'm so used to it...

-scheherazade

lol an evo. lol. pass. While an 8 second car is fast, the m3 is luxury. Something an evo will never be. By the time you mix luxury with speed, well then you get the r8 prices which is a gouge in the side.

How much would an 8 second evo cost you out of pocket, then try to resell it. lets see, put 60k in a 30k dollar car. Thats smart!

Originally Posted by frenchM3dreamer

you realize i almost wet my pants when i read your signature, right?
between what you own and what you sold, that's impressive... i wish i'll make enough money one of these days to get to something similar...

Congrats...

Pat

The stock market has treated me well. For some of my other friends, not so well. Thank you for your kind words. Its interesting to see everyone responses. I always remember a few months back I had my garage door open and my neighbor asked if my GT-R was "that new mustang." he was dead serious too. I had it de-badged so he had no clue.

Originally Posted by ssabripo

I'm in the same boat... picked a 135i and modded it, as a hold over fun and trackable daily driver, until the next gen M3 shows up which is the car I'm waiting for (twin turbo 6cyl M, light weight, etc). As great as a car the e92 M3 is, I just wasn't blown away.... I still admire the car for what it is and its capability.

I checked out your mods haha. You have the same mods as cashman I believe. very nice! I like how your car sits.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Fixed

Hey, I still drive a BMW sport coupe, which is still million times better than you who drives nothing and are trolling this site.

Oh yeah, if a Porsche 911 Carrera S is not a real sports car then yeah I never have driven a real sports car and M3 is as close as it ever got.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I bought a new bare bones manual 335 + sport package ($44k), + mods.
$16k goes pretty far in mods. Plenty left over.

Once again minimum to keep up around a track:

Tune, Intercooler, intake, exhaust, Oil cooler upgrade, Downpipes, Non-runflats, Limitied slip diff, Big Brake kit

Minimum without install costs ~10,000+

Not worth it just get the M3, I'll take a E90 M3 stripper anyday.

Originally Posted by scheherazade

M3 is still an e9X chassis.
Tuned N54 is a capable engine.
Suspension parts and wheels are not impossible to upgrade, and that's 99% of the difference. (plus badge and some panels)

Only chassis/suspension part that transfer over from a base 3-series, is the rear trailing arms.

Originally Posted by scheherazade

Warranty is not an issue. These cars are not that expensive to fix. Especially if you do some yourself, and the rest you don't do at the dealer.

Oh really, You want to tell me how much a blown N54 or blown turbos cost to replace.

Originally Posted by scheherazade

And I've talked to people with GTR's. Including in real life, not just internet talk.
No one has had any problems whatsoever.
So far I've heard about problems only from people that don't have one.

New M3 is $60k bare bones, no options.
New bare bones GTR is $80k.

WRONG

Bare bones E90 M3 msrp - $54,850

Bare bones GT-R msrp - $80,790

$26,000 difference

Come on buddy you can do better.

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I can get a 12k miles odo GTR for $65k.

You can get a used low miles E9x M3 around ~$46k. What is your point?

Originally Posted by scheherazade

In any case, the M3 is a fine car. I'm not knocking it.
For the money, I think there are more interesting alternatives.

And one of alternatives is now not your 335i, since used M3's are in the mid $40k range.

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I know people with cars so much faster than my 335 that I know damn well where my place is in the 'who's faster' pecking order (FYI, it's not M3s that make up most of the 'faster' list.).

You seem to insist you have a better track car, with your garage modded 335i. And we are talking about a track that has turns, not 1/4 mile bullshit.

Originally Posted by scheherazade

You won't see me coming up to someone acting like hot shit.

Really, you seem to want to convince us you engineered a 335i with aftermarket parts better than BMW M division.



We get it. You are from the JDM scene, anything without FI is trash. You only bought a BMW because they started using turbos. Feel free to go back to your Evo or Supra scene.

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Minimum without install costs ~10,000+

Not worth it just get the M3, I'll take a E90 M3 stripper anyday.

Which is about what it came to. So?

M3 would still need coilovers, sways, wheels, and tyres.

I basically took some of the same upgrades I would have gotten for the M3, and put them onto a 335...

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Only chassis/suspension part that transfer over from a base 3-series, is the rear trailing arms.

e90 and e92 are also divergent.
It's one of those things where 'to themselves they're different', but 'to others they couldn't be more alike'.
Find a more similar chassis, even if the details area all tweaked.

If you'll be happy, sure. They are "different".

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Oh really, You want to tell me how much a blown N54 or blown turbos cost to replace.

Few hundred for ebay turbos, plus another few hundred for a rebuild.
Then a day of your own time to swap.
Or just drop 3k for upgraded turbos and spend a day on a swap.

I'd hope to never blow the motor.
But if I did, I'd pick up a junk yard v8tt from the latest X series and swap + tune. No tears shed.

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Bare bones E90 M3 msrp - $54,850

Originally Posted by BMW web site

"Total MSRP as Built $59,975"

Coupe vs Coupe (gtr has 2 doors)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...olCH4iG8a6SNo=

Nit picking a couple K isn't going to change anything.

Originally Posted by M3_WC

You can get a used low miles E9x M3 around ~$46k. What is your point?

And one of alternatives is now not your 335i, since used M3's are in the mid $40k range.

I don't want RWD. It's 46k that would be thrown away.

The M3 comes up short in my requirements. I won't buy it just to have an M. It's not even a consideration for me.
A tuned 335 xi was the only offering BMW had that came close.
If I wasn't in the mood for "nice", I wouldn't have even looked at BMW.

Originally Posted by M3_WC

You seem to insist you have a better track car, with your garage modded 335i. And we are talking about a track that has turns, not 1/4 mile bullshit.

Really, you seem to want to convince us you engineered a 335i with aftermarket parts better than BMW M division.

We get it. You are from the JDM scene, anything without FI is trash. You only bought a BMW because they started using turbos. Feel free to go back to your Evo or Supra scene.

When i said :

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I know people with cars so much faster than my 335 that I know damn well where my place is in the 'who's faster' pecking order (FYI, it's not M3s that make up most of the 'faster' list.). You won't see me coming up to someone acting like hot shit.

I was not even thinking of comparing my 335 to an M3.
The emphasis is on those 'other cars'. Not on the M3.
Some of which are so damn fast that it's scary (like 0-60 in the low/mid 2 second range).
Really. 335 AND M3 are both slow cars.

I'm not a JB3 / procede dbag here to tell you how awesome my 335 is.
It's not that great.

[deleted blah. don't feel like arguing]

This is a dead horse anyways.
M is the apex. Enjoy your car. Let me know when formula 1 calls to borrow your shocks.

Cheers,
-scheherazade

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

Hey, I still drive a BMW sport coupe, which is still million times better than you who drives nothing and are trolling this site.

Oh yeah, if a Porsche 911 Carrera S is not a real sports car then yeah I never have driven a real sports car and M3 is as close as it ever got.

First of all I apologize for the obnoxious tone of my post. Second of all I have driven my friends 330CI ZHP and found it to be a very nice car, in some ways I preferred it to my 335.


The drives "none" under my name should be taken with a grain of salt.


I have two daily drivers, a BMW 335i Cabriolet (New York City) and a Jaguar XKR (Palm Beach Florida) am an active member of the Cayman Club and am about to order a Maserati GT. I also have a dedicated track car (Spec Miata). I hold SCCA and Skip Barber Competition licenses and am a member of the Club at Lime Rock and drive on tracks frequently in a variety of cars including recently a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale and an Ariel Atom along with the Miata (my favorite) which is equipped with racing seats, a full roll cage, 5 point harnesses and a fire supression system.

I have no illusiions about either of my street cars being race cars or track cars. They are not and that is not what they were purchased for. I drive both of them very consiervatively.

The M3 is not a race car but is a very good car for occaisional track use. It is not possible to mod a 335i into being an M3 and even if you could it would not be cost effective. The M3 is a much better track car than a 335i, modded or not. The M3 is also an excellent road car (as is any 3 Series) but probably overkill (not that there's anything wrong with that) and IMO is perfectly fine as a daily driver. To make an M3 into a true race car you would have to invest close to $100,000 over the price of the car and it would become useless as a road car.

CA

[frenchM3dreamer]

i think you guys are going way too far into this...
for me it comes down to one and simple thing: does any kid who loves cars dream about a x35, be it a 135i, 335i???... mhm, i dont think so... i know since i was 10 or even earlier, i've always wanted a M, not just a "regular" Bimmer, and probably even more than i ever wanted a more exotic / powerful car like Ferrari, Lambo... and i'm sure i'm not alone... except maybe for a nasty Shelby Cobra
granted there are cars that are 100 times better in every aspect than an M, but there is still something special everytime i see / hear one... maybe it's a different story for some of you guys who have pockets deeper than a porn-star throat, but regardless of its performances, engine, price, an M still holds something special to every car guy out there.
it's not just a Bimmer, it's an M, with all the history that comes with it...
a x35i is probably a good car that can be made to perform close or better than an M, but if it aint no M, it aint nothing !
as far as i'm concerned, as soon as finances allow, i'm getting a M3 Cabrio... i might get bored of it quick, maybe not, but at least i'll be able to say " i owned an M-car"
and maybe when i'm really loaded, i'll move on to something more powerful, faster, more luxurious... or maybe i'll just get an used E46 Cabrio (sorry if this is the wrong chassis code, but you get the idea), blue exterior, white leather, to go along with my E93 and probably the new gen M3...
You can argue all you want now, i'll just sit down and watch

[chungdae]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Once again minimum to keep up around a track:

Tune, Intercooler, intake, exhaust, Oil cooler upgrade, Downpipes, Non-runflats, Limitied slip diff, Big Brake kit

Minimum without install costs ~10,000+

Not worth it just get the M3, I'll take a E90 M3 stripper anyday.



Only chassis/suspension part that transfer over from a base 3-series, is the rear trailing arms.


Oh really, You want to tell me how much a blown N54 or blown turbos cost to replace.


WRONG

Bare bones E90 M3 msrp - $54,850

Bare bones GT-R msrp - $80,790

$26,000 difference

Come on buddy you can do better.


You can get a used low miles E9x M3 around ~$46k. What is your point?



And one of alternatives is now not your 335i, since used M3's are in the mid $40k range.


You seem to insist you have a better track car, with your garage modded 335i. And we are talking about a track that has turns, not 1/4 mile bullshit.


Really, you seem to want to convince us you engineered a 335i with aftermarket parts better than BMW M division.



We get it. You are from the JDM scene, anything without FI is trash. You only bought a BMW because they started using turbos. Feel free to go back to your Evo or Supra scene.

Lol. Owned.

[MJC///M3]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

Honestly, it just seems like BMW owners across the board think that their car is far more impressive than it really is.

Most people in car clubs, when they see a 335, think : "meh"
Most people in car clubs, when they see an M3, think : "meh"

There's a world of better stuff out there.
Watching people all over this board gloat about how much sicker their car is than <car whatever>, is sad.

As far as 'jap' tuning goes : I'll take an 8 second track tuned evo over an M3 any day. It's not even a question. Straight line or handling.

My 335 is not an 'impersonation M'. I honestly couldn't care less about having an M.
It's simply a daily driver that's fun, zippy, and doesn't drive my GF mad.
Originally the interior made a great impression. But now I'm so used to it...

I know people with cars so much faster than my 335 that I know damn well where my place is in the 'who's faster' pecking order (FYI, it's not M3s that make up most of the 'faster' list.). You won't see me coming up to someone acting like hot shit.

And as far as "M3's amazing handling and dynamics" go... I would have upgraded the suspension on an M3 regardless. It's sloppy.

-scheherazade

wow....your the man!

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

Honestly, it just seems like BMW owners across the board think that their car is far more impressive than it really is.

Most people in car clubs, when they see a 335, think : "meh"
Most people in car clubs, when they see an M3, think : "meh"

There's a world of better stuff out there.
Watching people all over this board gloat about how much sicker their car is than <car whatever>, is sad.

As far as 'jap' tuning goes : I'll take an 8 second track tuned evo over an M3 any day. It's not even a question. Straight line or handling.

My 335 is not an 'impersonation M'. I honestly couldn't care less about having an M.
It's simply a daily driver that's fun, zippy, and doesn't drive my GF mad.
Originally the interior made a great impression. But now I'm so used to it...

I know people with cars so much faster than my 335 that I know damn well where my place is in the 'who's faster' pecking order (FYI, it's not M3s that make up most of the 'faster' list.). You won't see me coming up to someone acting like hot shit.

And as far as "M3's amazing handling and dynamics" go... I would have upgraded the suspension on an M3 regardless. It's sloppy.

-scheherazade

That last line took away any credibility you ever had, please leave this site now.
THANKS

[adc]

I'm coming from a slightly modified E92 335i and now driving an E90 M3 - having been in both camps, here is my take.

I think it's completely pointless to buy a new 135/335 (i or xi) and then modify the hell out of it in order to try to make an "M3" out of it.

For one, after you are done with all the necessary modifications you will most definitely NOT be ahead money wise: M3 front/rear control arms ($1k), suspension ($3k installed/aligned), LSD ($4k installed), power ($500), brakes ($2k), upgraded oil cooler ($1.5k installed), wheels with UHP not-runflats ($2k minimum), etc.

Second, having this amount of modifications will raise the eyebrows of even the most accomodating BMW service advisor. Should something happen, he will not take your side. And once BMW puts you on their blacklist, good luck getting any warranty work done without significant hassle.

Finally, I am still not convinced that even modified to the gills, the driving experience will be better than the M3's. It might, or might not - but it's an expensive and risky way IMO to find out.

This makes much more sense if you can get a nice, cheap, used example with low miles and did I mention cheap? Then you can try to install as many of these mods youself and hope the overall cost stays under $40k (it it spills over, then you are again in used M3 price territory). Presumably, since this is a used car, warranty is not the primary concern either.

The other way to approach this is to get the 135/335 and enjoy it for what it is, not for what it isn't. Modify if you must, but don't go overboard, it would be missing the point of the car entirely.


Finally, so many people posting here forget that amateur-level track ability comes first and foremost from the driver, not the car. The car's main job is to remain responsive and not get in the way.

Viewed from this perspective, the M3 is I think a better track capable car than the 135/335 straight out of the box - or even with slight mods. I was fortunate enough to drive both the 335 and M3 on the most famous track of all and the difference could not have been greater - I was fighting the 335 all the way and its movements were a little scary, where the M3 was working with me all the time and was generally more confidence inspiring. I could decouple from the mechanics of actual car management in the M3, and concentrate on the line and remembering the corners instead. At the Ring (or any other demanding track), this type of confidence is the best thing a car can give you as far as I'm concerned.

For a few posters here with extensive track experience (myself not included), the 135, 335 and M3 can all be driven very fast on track. For the rest of us, we're most likely not even scratching the first layer of the performance envelope. It would be a good thing to remember before making wild claims on the forums...

[MJC///M3]

Originally Posted by slammedm3

That last line took away any credibility you ever had, please leave this site now.
THANKS

I wonder how many drugs would you have to consume over what period of time, to write such an igorant post as that kid did....

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by MJC///M3

I wonder how many drugs would you have to consume over what period of time, to write such an igorant post as that kid did....

woah, at first I thought you were talking about me
hhaha

[MJC///M3]

Originally Posted by slammedm3

woah, at first I thought you were talking about me
hhaha

hahah.....nah bro...it was referenced to that other dude...but..I was using crude sarcasm to 100% agree with you.

[330CIZHP]

x 3

The typical dumb 335 fanboi needs to have his a** banned. His post is so ludicrous, I can only laugh. M3 handling "is sloppy!!" Great way to say, "grapes are sour".

Originally Posted by MJC///M3

I wonder how many drugs would you have to consume over what period of time, to write such an igorant post as that kid did....

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

x 3

The typical dumb 335 fanboi needs to have his a** banned. His post is so ludicrous, I can only laugh. M3 handling "is sloppy!!" Great way to say, "grapes are sour".

I'm not a 335 fanboy. The 335 is a porker, and is merely adequate.

If you can't tell that stock M3 suspension is sloppy - then you've just not been in a hard sprung car. Go play with a race tuned miata/z06/evo/s2000.

Handling boils down to your weight distribution, steering geometry, torque distribution, tyres, etc. The roundel or badge couldn't matter less.
There are cars that will literally lift the inside wheels off the ground in a hard turn, and the outside wheels look barely compressed. Stock M3 is not like that, you can't compare.

But if you're coming from an unmodified main stream sports car background, then I can totally understand how you'd think an M3 is solid as hell. Until you try some other cars, you'll keep thinking that. So there's nothing more to be said that won't just get scoffs.

Now if you were talking about a *stock/factory* : atom, radical, caterham, murtaya, etc...
Then I wouldn't have said anything about the 'beastly track performance', and how 'superior it is in every way'.

-scheherazade

[frenchM3dreamer]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I'm not a 335 fanboy. The 335 is a porker, and is merely adequate.

If you can't tell that stock M3 suspension is sloppy - then you've just not been in a hard sprung car. Go play with a race tuned miata/z06/evo/s2000.

Handling boils down to your weight distribution, steering geometry, torque distribution, tyres, etc. The roundel or badge couldn't matter less.

But if you're coming from an unmodified main stream sports car background, then I can totally understand how you'd think an M3 is solid as hell. Until you try some other cars, you'll keep thinking that. So there's nothing more to be said that won't just get scoffs.

-scheherazade

you might not be a dumba$$ or a 335 fanboy but why compare a bone stock production car like the M3 to any race-tuned car???
i can make my fat-ass convertible handle better than a stock M3 with a set of racing coilovers and another $ 20 K of upgrades, but that's not the point here!!!!
i'm sure a race-tuned 135i is better than an M3 if you wanna go this way...
Thread options / Unsuscribe as far as i'm concerned, this is going BS...

quick edit following your edit you cant really compare a M3 to a Caterham, Atom... agreed they're both stock, but they dont quite play in the same category as far as DD ability, do they?

[adc]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

If you can't tell that stock M3 suspension is sloppy - then you've just not been in a hard sprung car. Go play with a race tuned miata/z06/evo/s2000.

Handling boils down to your weight distribution, steering geometry, torque distribution, tyres, etc. The roundel or badge couldn't matter less.

I'm sorry, but you could not be more wrong about that - although it's a common misconception. Handling has absolutely nothing to do with how hard the springs are (check out a Miata or Elise if you don't believe me).

A car is said to handle well when it responds to your inputs in a progressive, immediate, predictable and consistent manner, when you can adjust its cornering attitude to the one you want and when it also provides good feedback about what it's doing.


How fast it goes around a track and how well it handles can be and usually are related, but not necessarily always. A bad handling car with sufficient grip can go around a track much faster than a well handling car with less grip.


In this context, the M3 suspension (at least the EDC one) is a remarkable feat - it provides sufficient movement damping for track use yet is not too harsh for street use. The M3 also handles very well, in the sense that it always responds to your inputs in a meaningful way, up to and over the limits of adhesion. It provides good feeback (at least when you are at speed) and it's adjustable.

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by frenchM3dreamer

why compare a bone stock production car like the M3 to any race-tuned car???

quick edit following your edit you cant really compare a M3 to a Caterham, Atom... agreed they're both stock, but they dont quite play in the same category as far as DD ability, do they?

It stems from people saying that "you can never make a 335 handle like an M3". Like as if the M division sources the best hardware humanly available.
Hence my comment :"Let me know when formula 1 calls to borrow your shocks."
Nowhere did I intend to say that my specific 335 is better than an M3. I'm saying that 'there exist better parts' - generally speaking (and you can put them on a 335).

True. But with a hard top I'd DD them.
If I can get a hard top murtaya over to the states for a decent price, I'll DD it.

Originally Posted by adc

I'm sorry, but you could not be more wrong about that - although it's a common misconception. Handling has absolutely nothing to do with how hard the springs are (check out a Miata or Elise if you don't believe me).

A car is said to handle well when it responds to your inputs ...

Agreed.

If the M3 responds how you want it to, then it's all good.
I personally look for a much more 'welded-on-wheels' kind of ride.

I like more pre-load and lower CG. I like being able to transition left and right without loading one side and releasing it with a snap on direction change.

But this boils down to preference.
(and on whether or not the ground is wet, where less impulse makes it easier to manage.)

-scheherazade