M3 vs 6.3 AMG?

[lambobambo]

Any input on the ML63?

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by Scoobe

Main reason the C63 is "detuned" is because the engine compartment wasn't big enough to house the standard exhaust manifold of the same engine in other cars. Modified exhaust beyond the manifold would probably get you to 500hp easily.

While exhaust modifications are of benefit on any high-performance car sold in the USA (becasue of strict OEM noise regs), your basic assertion is untrue. The C63 is detuned via electronic throttle control. You get something like 86% of full throttle when you floor it - no more.

There are at least eight or nine aftermarket organizations that are happy to reprogram your C63 ECM, and while they all lie about the gains (just as all aftermarket companies do), you can expect more than a 10% hike in rear-wheel power on your C63 when they're done. Figure 500 HP or more out of the ECM change alone.

Bruce

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by crackberry

wait, so why exactly is the c63 beast? ive tried to do some research on the c63 amg, but have come up empty handed. it doesnt even have its own wikipedia webpage.

in terms of track times, the m3 comes out on top. so what makes it a beast?

It's faster than the M3 in a straight line - and it sounds and feels even faster than that...

Bruce

[BlancM3]

Definitely the c63. The ML is just unbelievably ugly!! Besides the c63 is much more fun

[Scoobe]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

While exhaust modifications are of benefit on any high-performance car sold in the USA (becasue of strict OEM noise regs), your basic assertion is untrue. The C63 is detuned via electronic throttle control. You get something like 86% of full throttle when you floor it - no more.

There are at least eight or nine aftermarket organizations that are happy to reprogram your C63 ECM, and while they all lie about the gains (just as all aftermarket companies do), you can expect more than a 10% hike in rear-wheel power on your C63 when they're done. Figure 500 HP or more out of the ECM change alone.

Bruce

Thats what I was told at the dealer, the guy seemed like he knew what he was talking about, and not that it doesnt make sense. The C engine compartment is much smaller than any of the other cars with the 63 engine. I never researched if what he said was true. The ECU would of course be tuned to the more restrictive mannifold as well. Could all be a blowhard tech guy at the Merc dealer for all I know.

[MikeG_C63_AMG]

I figure I chime in here since it's been a while. Bruce your pretty close. The ECU of a stock C63 is programmed to open the throttle body up to a max of 60% at WOT. If you look at a stock C63 dyno sheet (Dyno Jet) the car averages around 370 +/- 5whp. Specifically if you notice at around 5K rpm the HP curve "plateaus" to redline. While a tuned C63 will have it's TB open up to 86-90% at WOT just like any other platform for the M156 engine. A tuned only C63 should be putting down 420 +/- 5whp on a dyno jet.

Figure I chime in since it's been awhile. My car in particular is tuned, has a custom air-box mod, along with a secondary cat X-pipe delete. I hope to visit the dyno soon and be able to put down at least 435 whp at the lowest, while hoping to reach 440 whp on a Dyno Jet. While I was stock I ran across a E92 M-DCT equipped M3 on the "Mexican Turnpike". Oh the 3 runs each resulted in a 2-2.5 CL advantage for the C63. Wasn't even close. Two different cars with different strengths and weaknesses.

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by dizzyj

dont really think the c63 is any bigger than the m3 is it? didnt seem like it when I drove it.

I also think you can get the performance package which ups it to 500+hp and a lsd

the c63 cost more than the M3? i get conflicting info
expensive when pricing up on mercedes website

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

the c63 cost more than the M3? i get conflicting info
expensive when pricing up on mercedes website

Interesting, as the C63 is considerably cheaper than a similarily equipped M3 up here.

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

It's faster than the M3 in a straight line - and it sounds and feels even faster than that...

Bruce

thats what i thought. i gotta try a c63 and see how i like it.

[AlbertM]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Last night some dude on the Ocean Pkwy had a sick E63 AMG tuned by Jeremy from OE. Thing was a beast and made this insane sound when it shifted.

He claimed his tune was giving him about 30hp. The same tune on his friends C63 gives 55hp. If I'm not mistaken, he mentioned something about how the 6.2 in the C is factory de-tuned, so the OE tune wakes it up more than in the E.

Hey, it was me you met on the Ocean Parkway. and having many different runs with C63s, I can tell you C63s are beasts especially tuned. Easy 55-65hp gain at the wheels. One of the guys on C63 forum posted a dyno graph (tuned by OE tuning) putting down close to 450hp at the wheels after the tune. Stock is around 380-390 at the wheels. If you do headers and tune, forget it.

[stanchien]

I was in the same boat and looks like M3 is the way to go!

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by AlbertM

Hey, it was me you met on the Ocean Parkway. and having many different runs with C63s, I can tell you C63s are beasts especially tuned. Easy 55-65hp gain at the wheels. One of the guys on C63 forum posted a dyno graph (tuned by OE tuning) putting down close to 450hp at the wheels after the tune. Stock is around 380-390 at the wheels. If you do headers and tune, forget it.

ALBERT!! Whats up bro!!!!! Good to see you here!

Amazing ride you've got there. Look forward to seeing you down at the OBI

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG

I figure I chime in here since it's been a while. Bruce your pretty close. The ECU of a stock C63 is programmed to open the throttle body up to a max of 60% at WOT. If you look at a stock C63 dyno sheet (Dyno Jet) the car averages around 370 +/- 5whp. Specifically if you notice at around 5K rpm the HP curve "plateaus" to redline. While a tuned C63 will have it's TB open up to 86-90% at WOT just like any other platform for the M156 engine. A tuned only C63 should be putting down 420 +/- 5whp on a dyno jet...

'ppreciate the update. The Evosport guys (spoke with them today) say it's 70% on the C63 vs 82% on an E63.

Well, whatever the particulars, it's way short of max. Hence the potential.

Bruce

[MikeG_C63_AMG]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

'ppreciate the update. The Evosport guys (spoke with them today) say it's 70% on the C63 vs 82% on an E63.

Well, whatever the particulars, it's way short of max. Hence the potential.

Bruce

Anytime.

[eNCore]

Originally Posted by ns2000x

The C63 engine is very similar to the ML and E63 motors. The SLS has upgraded internals. However the new Performance Package plus available for the C63 gets you the SLS internals, and bumps the output to 480 bhp from the factory.

Also as you are in the UK, Mercedes offer a UK only special addition that is called the 520 something or other. But it actually puts out something like 507bhp.

C63 = Monster.

Main downside is the lack of a manual or dual clutch option. In the not too distant future Mercedes will likely drop their MCT (multi clutch transmission) in the C-AMG (likely when the coupe comes out). However that is really just a torque convert-less automatic that uses lots of wet plate clutches controlling drive to Mercedes 7 speed auto.

Have fun, and I envy your estate options.

Cheers

There will be a C63 AMG coupe? O.O

[radiantm3]

I think the C63 AMG is an amazing car, but as the metaphor goes, I much prefer a scalpel over a sledgehammer. It's great that we have so many choices in this car segment.

[e1000]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

I saw one at my MB dealership with a carbon fiber lip spoiler and I started to drool...then he turned it on...I needed a new pair of underwear....

Yeah it sounds amazing.

[///Mperative]

Drove the C63 before I bought the M3. It's a beast and it's got tons of power, but it doesn't do a great job of putting down that power (due to the auto transmission, chassis, weight distribution, etc, etc.). It also is quite unruly when not driving in a straight line. If you don't mind a car that only drives well in a straight line, then go for the C63. If you want a car that handles properly, get the M3. If you have no sense at all, then go for the ML, but I personally wouldn't buy an SUV (for many different reasons).

[boombastic]

If you really need a SUV, go with X5M/X6M. I recently flashed my X5M ECU by powerchip. Even more fun now.

[IFX]

Originally Posted by boombastic

If you really need a SUV, go with X5M/X6M. I recently flashed my X5M ECU by powerchip. Even more fun now.

Ew, i wouldn't buy an X5/6M anything. No offense, but no X5/6M looks better than an AMG... Any AMG for that matter..