Watkins Glen Sep 21-22

[arter]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

That is a great time. Its hard to tell from that video, but it looks like you dont brake at t10, just lift? What tires, size? This track favors high HP cars and your supercharger pulls hard on the front and backstraightaways.

Actually the discussion we all had a couple of weeks ago on the speed aim through some of the turns really helped me. Several of you mentioned which turns you needed to increase your speed on ( like maybe you could go through turn 10 at close to 90 to get a better time). I found I was tapping the brakes before most turns and taking turn 10 at 75 for example.
I found that I would hit an apex and say to myself, gee, I could have taken that turn much faster.

2 weeks ago ( at a CHIN event at the Glen) I started to focus on not braking ( as much), maybe just lifting and seeing what happened. Dramatically decreased my times( of course you have to work up to anything).

So you are right, just lifting at turn 10, hitting about 105 at the turn in cone, drops to just above 90 at the apex, where we are back on the gas again. More of an earlier apex and a slide through the corners....

Running 275/35/18 NT-01's although I am thinking about Hankook Z214's

[klammer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

We stayed at the Seneca Lodge. Not the best accommodations, but it is not expensive, the food is decent and the beer is good . I will try something else next time though...

The glen is a very honest track, with the concrete patches giving a good hint at where the line is. It has a lot of banking that needs to be leveraged for quick laps. Here are my observations. Note that I ran the track only 5 sessions in all, so take it with a grain of salt . My recommended shifts are for DCT with a stock rear end; might be different with your 3.45 .

OK, so here goes:

Front straight, start braking slightly past the patch in the asphalt. Brake early because the entire braking is done downhill. Downshift to third. Early and lazy turn-in while trail braking all the way to the apex (this is the only way I could get our heavy car to pivot and still nail the apex). You need to ride the first half of the curb at the apex (ride the flat half, avoid the angled half). Full throttle as soon as you hit the apex, the camber and curbing at the exit will catch you. Shift into 4th.

Slight and short lift going into 2 and then full throttle up the hill (with more guts, might be able to take it flat out, but I have not tried it). Don't turn-in too early to get a good positioning for turn 3, but try to get into the groove as fast as possible to leverage the camber.

Very slight lift during the right-left transition into 3 and then full throttle as soon as the weight transfer is done (again here, pretty sure it can be taken flat out, but I did not have the confidence to do it yet). Late apex 3 to get a good run into 4.

Flat out through 4 and all the way through the back straight. Try to keep the wheels as straight as possible through 4 to avoid scrubbing off valuable speed. Shift into 5th and maybe 6th if you had a good run through the esses. Into the bus stop, brake at or slightly past the 500 mark (can most likely brake much later here), downshift to 4th, turn-in in the first portion of the curbing on the left, trail brake way into the bus stop. Aggressively ride the curbing on the right (the more you ride the curb, the less it upsets the car). Hit the curb on the left. Try to stay on the concrete while arcing through the bus stop and nail the other curb on the left. Avoid hitting the fourth curbing (on the right) and exit all the way to the edge of the track to get a good entry into 5.

Maintenance throttle going into 5. Look far ahead and with throttle steer, aim for the flagger cabin, that is where the apex is hidden. As soon as you see the track out, full throttle and let the car drift to the outer edge of the track. Avoid the outside curb as it upsets the car.

Cross the track to the entry of 6, sharp braking, downshift to 3rd, late and lazy turn-in with some trail braking. The track has a lot of banking here, so it can be taken faster than it seems. Full throttle as soon as you see the track out point. Upshift to 4th.

Cross the track to the entry of 7. You can brake very late (at or after the 200 mark) because the last portion of the braking zone is sharply uphill. Downshift to 3rd. Aim for the centre of the concrete patch. Trail brake all the way into the big concrete patch to get the car to rotate. You want the car pointing in the right direction when you hit the late apex because the uphill angle decreases at track out and the car will understeer. At track out, use the little pavement extension. Upshift to 4th and maybe 5th if you got 7 right.

From here to the front straight is the section in which I think I left the most time on the table

Brake late into 8, with a sharp turn-in to get into the groove. Use the concrete patch as a guide. Downshift to 3rd. You need to get very close to the apex to leverage the banking (I struggled with that because the inside curb is as sharp as a sidewalk curb). The track opens up more than expected, so way more speed can be carried into the turn. Upshift to 4th for the last short burst up the hill.

Sharp braking and downshift to 3rd into 9. You really need to throw the car into 9 with some trail braking because the turn-in is uphill and then the angle tapers off; the car starts to understeer. Don't trail brake too deep because the back end will get wiggly. Aim for the middle of the concrete patch and then throttle steer the car towards the apex. Use the pavement extension at track out. Upshift to 4th.

I always over-braked going into 10. Use the little pavement extention on the right side on the track to get a better turn-in (sort of like a mini Norvegian flick). Again here, the track opens up more than expected. The track out is difficult to judge because the curbing is blacked out from rubber marks. Flat out to 11.

Slight braking into 11 (again here, I always over-braked). Sharp turn-in with trail braking to leverage the banking and full throttle at the apex to drift-out as close to the wall as your guts can handle. Upshift to 4th and 5th on the front straight.

Hope this helps .

Maybe others can chime-in to add their 2 cents.

WOW!!! Just finished day one at the Glen, the first 2 sessions were dry at least, and this is like a personal critique as I read it after watching my one decent dry lap, session 2, today. This is SO spot on and exactly everything I thought as I watched! I can't wait to get back out there tomorrow, looking sunny, and really have some fun at this track (even though today was awesome anyway and I actually am starting to enjoy driving in the rain). I'm amazed at the grip levels and speeds that this track can be taken. This is a totally big balls track and is amazingly fun. Can't wait for tomorrow

[klammer]

Originally Posted by arter

Actually the discussion we all had a couple of weeks ago on the speed aim through some of the turns really helped me. Several of you mentioned which turns you needed to increase your speed on ( like maybe you could go through turn 10 at close to 90 to get a better time). I found I was tapping the brakes before most turns and taking turn 10 at 75 for example.
I found that I would hit an apex and say to myself, gee, I could have taken that turn much faster.

2 weeks ago ( at a CHIN event at the Glen) I started to focus on not braking ( as much), maybe just lifting and seeing what happened. Dramatically decreased my times( of course you have to work up to anything).

So you are right, just lifting at turn 10, hitting about 105 at the turn in cone, drops to just above 90 at the apex, where we are back on the gas again. More of an earlier apex and a slide through the corners....

Running 275/35/18 NT-01's although I am thinking about Hankook Z214's

This is such a great track! Amazing how straight on you take the bus stop, it's as we discussed, time to use this pigs weight to our advantage, curbs be damned You're video is helping a bunch can't wait till tomorrow

[arter]

Much better day than I thought it would be.
Had three dry sessions in the morning and then I discovered a flat in my street tires. Had to drive home tonight thru heavy rain with r compounds with no thread left.

Hope you do well tomorrow with what should be good weather, I only signed up for fri / sat this time. Enjoy.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by arter

Actually the discussion we all had a couple of weeks ago on the speed aim through some of the turns really helped me. Several of you mentioned which turns you needed to increase your speed on ( like maybe you could go through turn 10 at close to 90 to get a better time). I found I was tapping the brakes before most turns and taking turn 10 at 75 for example.
I found that I would hit an apex and say to myself, gee, I could have taken that turn much faster.

2 weeks ago ( at a CHIN event at the Glen) I started to focus on not braking ( as much), maybe just lifting and seeing what happened. Dramatically decreased my times( of course you have to work up to anything).

So you are right, just lifting at turn 10, hitting about 105 at the turn in cone, drops to just above 90 at the apex, where we are back on the gas again. More of an earlier apex and a slide through the corners....

Running 275/35/18 NT-01's although I am thinking about Hankook Z214's

OK, figures why I always over braked going into 10, you don't need to brake at all . I'll try that next time .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by klammer

WOW!!! Just finished day one at the Glen, the first 2 sessions were dry at least, and this is like a personal critique as I read it after watching my one decent dry lap, session 2, today. This is SO spot on and exactly everything I thought as I watched! I can't wait to get back out there tomorrow, looking sunny, and really have some fun at this track (even though today was awesome anyway and I actually am starting to enjoy driving in the rain). I'm amazed at the grip levels and speeds that this track can be taken. This is a totally big balls track and is amazingly fun. Can't wait for tomorrow

The Glen is definitely one of the "big boys" track. I really enjoyed my time there . The bankings are deceptive and allow you to carry way more speed than you think you can. We joked saying that it is a Nascar track that turns left AND right .

Looking back at my own vids, I think I could shave time by taking the slow but shorter line in turns 5 and 6. At least that is what I think Arter was doing.

Enjoy your day tomorrow .

I wish I could be there too

[CanAutM3]

Hey Klammer, any feedback from your 2nd day

Did you manage to break your 2:20 target

[klammer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Hey Klammer, any feedback from your 2nd day

Did you manage to break your 2:20 target

Unfortunately, was only able to hit 2:24 Day 2 was cut short, only had 2 sessions, only one solo (had in instructor on previous sessions) and the solo session was only 15 minutes and only got about 2 clean laps. Had to drive back to Chicago early to catch a flight out and just got back from that trip and about to head back out for another week. Will definitely be back and felt if I had 2 more sessions would have made my target. Only had 3.5 dry sessions total and 2 of those were my first 2 sessions ever on that track. Just didn't get enough seat time on that track in the dry. This may be my favorite track thus far, so will definitely be back... Will try and post a video in the next few days. Wish I could have stayed the whole second day, but sometimes life obligations get in the way I'll be back!

[arter]

I think all of us spent time running in the mid 20's learning the track and getting comfortable with it before you try to push faster. You have to stop looking at the guardrails and start trusting the camber ( or buy a GTR, GT3, or corvette).

[Groundpilot]

If it was your first time at WGI, 2:24s is ok. It takes time to learn each corner and what speed you can take them at. I have been there with 3 different cars over the past 6 years and still get intimidated by the speed i am going through esses and T10. The main thing is to learn and build up your speed slowly. This track is fun but can be dangerous and unforgiving.

[klammer]

Originally Posted by arter

I think all of us spent time running in the mid 20's learning the track and getting comfortable with it before you try to push faster. You have to stop looking at the guardrails and start trusting the camber ( or buy a GTR, GT3, or corvette).

No doubt! My eyes always widen a bit coming through the esses and not quite gutsy enough on turn 9, but wasn't braking into 10 never quite figured how fast I could take the bus stop (read "much faster"). Can't wait to go back, think I might just do it again next year. On a side note, this car never ceases to amaze me, even after 3 years of ownership. It was the fastest in our run group and then takes the wife and kids on a pleasurable cross country trip in one shot (11 hours, ouch!) straight off the track to the highway! And not one hiccup! Man I love my car

[arter]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

The main thing is to learn and build up your speed slowly. This track is fun but can be dangerous and unforgiving.

I will let you know how many crashes there are this weekend with the NASA group. I think except for the BMW club racers, the HPDE group was clean this weekend. Wonder why they never have rusty guardrails at this track......

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by arter

I will let you know how many crashes there are this weekend with the NASA group. I think except for the BMW club racers, the HPDE group was clean this weekend. Wonder why they never have rusty guardrails at this track......

I will be there too with NASA on sat. and sunday in hpde4/instructors group.

[OSAB1]

Originally Posted by arter

Yep, will be there with GVC CCA on fri , sat & sun ( Boston CCA is wed and Thursday and a lot of them do both).

Track time for the Glen and VIR are remarkably the same, so if you are a 2:20 man at VIR you likely would be a 2:20 a the glen.

Just was at the glen on the 2th & 3rd with Chin. Dropped my fastest time by 2 seconds ( 2:15.4) so I was happy. I need to focus on maintaining faster minimum speeds in the turns ( I touch the brake too much prior to turn in and I don't make it up). Liked Chin as they run open passing.

For your first time at the Glen just relax and enjoy. Don't think about the blue railings 2 feet beyond the track out cones.

Saw you at chin. My cousin and I were in the garages across from you. I had grey e92 and my cousin had the white e92 w/ sc. Chin was nice event. We will be at group 52 next week. Can't wait. The white car ran 2:05's. Beast.

[arter]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

I will be there too with NASA on sat. and sunday in hpde4/instructors group.

Just running w/ NASA on friday ( 4 x 35 minutes sessions) instead of the very busy sat/sun sessions ( 4x 20 minutes). The negative with NASA is that they have too many groups to process on race days ( which is why I like their friday test & tune runs). A neat circus to watch though.......

[arter]

Originally Posted by OSAB1

Saw you at chin. My cousin and I were in the garages across from you. I had grey e92 and my cousin had the white e92 w/ sc. Chin was nice event. We will be at group 52 next week. Can't wait. The white car ran 2:05's. Beast.

wow, 2:05. maybe I could do a 2:10 with my car. 2:05 would need a driver mod big time.....
Maybe I will bring my other car down and be happy with a 2:35

Not the honda fit, not sure if that would be under 4:00.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by arter

wow, 2:05. maybe I could do a 2:10 with my car. 2:05 would need a driver mod big time.....
Maybe I will bring my other car down and be happy with a 2:35

Not the honda fit, not sure if that would be under 4:00.

I think he is talking about a real race car. No way stock e9xm3 even modded can run 2:05 without major weight reduction.
Agree about NASA, but its easyer for me to run on weekends.

[OSAB1]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

I think he is talking about a real race car. No way stock e9xm3 even modded can run 2:05 without major weight reduction.
Agree about NASA, but its easyer for me to run on weekends.

No not talking about a race car. Street car. Ohlins, brakes, sc 650, seats, half cage, aero, all the goodies, but daily driver. Not gutted. Car on paper can do 2 min dead. He saw our cars. No BS.

[OSAB1]

Originally Posted by arter

wow, 2:05. maybe I could do a 2:10 with my car. 2:05 would need a driver mod big time.....
Maybe I will bring my other car down and be happy with a 2:35

Not the honda fit, not sure if that would be under 4:00.

You can get 2:10's. Do you have brake kit? I run Hoosiers on apex square and pagid pads, no other mods and run 12's and 13's. Your car can run. See you guys out there!!!

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by OSAB1

No not talking about a race car. Street car. Ohlins, brakes, sc 650, seats, half cage, aero, all the goodies, but daily driver. Not gutted. Car on paper can do 2 min dead. He saw our cars. No BS.

Can you post a video of his run or yours?

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by OSAB1

Saw you at chin. My cousin and I were in the garages across from you. I had grey e92 and my cousin had the white e92 w/ sc. Chin was nice event. We will be at group 52 next week. Can't wait. The white car ran 2:05's. Beast.

Wow - 2:05's are amazing - Auberlen's best time at the Glen race was in the 2:02 range! That time would best quite a number of the Grand Am drivers.

With Hoosiers on my car I could see so doing something around 2:10-2:12 - no way I could get to 2:05 though - I have lots to learn apparently!

[OSAB1]

Originally Posted by Jaypod

Wow - 2:05's are amazing - Auberlen's best time at the Glen race was in the 2:02 range! That time would best quite a number of the Grand Am drivers.

With Hoosiers on my car I could see so doing something around 2:10-2:12 - no way I could get to 2:05 though - I have lots to learn apparently!

Remember those grand am cars are limited on power but are lighter. Driver does play a role. Just need lots of seat time and lots of money to put into the car. He has best of
The best stuff and can drive. We had grand am driver, Stevan Macaleer, drive the car and he was blown away by it. He was also fast as hell in it at njmp!!!!!!! Jay you can do it man!!!!!!!!!