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08-30-2008, 05:45 PM | #1 |
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What has the CSL got to do with you?
There are some heated debates about how //M decides not to make the CSL. Some people even seem to be emotional and angry at //M for making such a decision. The fact that resources has been diverted in to an M X5/6 just made the matter worse.
But let's come back down to earth and look at it. How many of us are actually going to have a real chance at getting a CSL? I'm trying to offend anyone by saying that you can't afford it. But even if you have 1-200k in your pocket to blow on a car, aren't there better performing choices? GT3s, F430s, lambos and the list goes on. This leaves only the people who are so wealthy that probably hired someone just to write on this forum for them to buy the CSL. They have so much money that they simply doesn't care using some pocket change to expand their 20 car garage with the CSL. Are you one of them? Yes, I know, you wouldn't fall for the M X5/6, but I also know my wife would want one once she sees the neighbor shuttling their kids to school in a Cayenne GTS. People buy cars for different reasons, perhaps they need a SUV (or SAV) but also wanted the //M badge just to make others think that their genitals are larger than they actually are, who knows? And now, BMW thinks that there are appeantly many people who wants an //M badge on their SUV, so they are making them. Has it got anything to do with you? Will it affect you? To me, I don't care. The M3 is a great car, and I love it. That's all it matters to me. As long as they make a single car that performs like a pure bred sports car and within the price range that I could afford, I cool. Yes, some people might say that //M will be tarnished by not having a CSL and producing SUVs, but why do you care? I would like to think that most M3 drivers are like me; they are in it for the driving experience and not the braging rights of owning the //M badge in the back of their trunk. That's my take.
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08-30-2008, 06:18 PM | #2 |
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You are spot on. But after seeing Jeremy Clarkson take the e46 m3 csl to the isle of man, it's gonna be dissapointing to know that such a potentially brilliant car would not exist for the current generation. like clarkson said, the m3 csl is after all an epitomy of what bmw IS.
i think for many people it is a symbol rather than just another car in the lineup. but fair play to bmw; if they have to cut that out due to the current market for cars and their need for budget elsewhere, then why not let them do it?
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08-30-2008, 07:31 PM | #3 |
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With enough time and money, you can mod your M3 to be an amateur CSL. I know I wasn't expecting to get a CSL anytime soon, being that I live in the U.S and all.
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08-30-2008, 07:58 PM | #5 |
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What is it set in stone or something? Maybe they will change their minds, maybe there will be a next gen M6 CSL if you want a BMW that blows everything away.
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08-30-2008, 08:06 PM | #6 | |
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Badging SUV's M is stupid since M is supposed to stand for motorsport and SUV's have nothing to do with motorsport. (obviously leaving things like dakar rally out). M has built SUV's before... they just didnt receive M badges. x5 4.8is for example.
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08-30-2008, 08:17 PM | #7 | |
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08-30-2008, 08:58 PM | #8 |
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CSL has become an icon, and people are interested in how far things can be pushed for a given chassis. If CSL should be of no interest to anyone, then so shouldn't the GT3, F430, etc. If you own a E92 chassis car, it is only natural that you might have developed an affinity toward what the E92 CSL might be capable of.
Also, for most people, ownership experience does go beyond the car one is in possession of. People do buy into a specific brand/culture/values to a certain degree when they spend $65k on a car. The "M" label has something to do with that. No point in denying it. And if that brand/culture/values are "diluted"--as in M SUVs--it is natural that some people will not like it. Otherwise, how could one justify paying $200k+ for a Ferrari for instance? There is an emotional component to all of this. Finally, it is not at all clear that the GT3 would perform better than a hypothetical E92 CSL, and an F430 would most likely cost more than 1.5 times a hypothetical E92 CSL. Why do you care that some people care about the CSL?
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08-30-2008, 09:34 PM | #9 | |
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As a E92 owner, I am indeed interested in finding out how far we can push this chassie. However, aren't there enough after market tuner for that? Dinan's 650hp M3, is that far enough for you? As for cost, is it really a factor? A GT3 might not out perform the hypothetical CSL, but at least you have a real shot in getting one. Even if they did make a CSL, especially if you are in north america, you chance of getting one is slim to none. I'll be interested in a CSL, but I won't complain if they don't make one. And neither will I complain about M SUVs. As long as //M still makes cars that lives up to traditions and standards, I'll still be a loyal customer.
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08-30-2008, 10:08 PM | #10 | ||
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I think this is the main issue. Some people are concerned that the //M "Motorsport" tradition is at risk. I personally do not think so, but significant reduction in the R&D budget and M engineers possibly spending time on not so relevant projects--"dilution" of focus internally--might indeed to be problematic in the long run. We'll see...
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08-30-2008, 10:44 PM | #11 | ||
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Yes, but Ferrari is not like //M, it is a company dedicated to sports cars. //M is different, it is more like an in-house tuner just like AMG for mercs. Their job is to make bimmer a better driving machine (contradictory to the company slogan "the ultimate driving machine"). AMG did made the ML63 and the R63 (I must admit that it's a bad move... a real bad move), but that didn't piss of AMG owners. My point is: if //M can turn SUVs into cars that are pleasurable to drive, isn't this the ultimate proof that they know performance? Isn't this a plus for brand reputation?
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08-31-2008, 12:32 AM | #12 | ||
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I personally want to see a car like the CSL purely out of intellectual curiousity. As amazing as our M3's are, what coulld could the CSL accomplish? Quote:
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08-31-2008, 12:50 AM | #13 | |
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if I'm your wife, I'd say "make it an SLR Roadster".
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08-31-2008, 04:26 PM | #14 |
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The CSL, to me, has always been a purist, hard-core car. One that is beautiful to drive, but too raw for a daily driver. Not too many people can justify the money for that. There are a lot of other, cheaper, "weekend" toys to take to the track. Everyone wants one but wouldn't buy, or could justify, getting a CSL.
I could be totally wrong, but my feeling is that BMW is going for the "luxury mass market". (Sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it?) They plan on selling many M3s. But how many CSLs do you think they would sell? Or more to the point: how many does BMW think they can sell? If the CSL appeals to such a small niche market then I do not think they will want to market it. By my thinking, I believe it's a mistake -- the CSL would make a good "halo" car, like Nissan's GT-R. It would show everyone what BMW is capable of. (And it would keep the engineers happy. ) They spend money on F1, don't they? The CSL is more of the same thing. Sorta like advertising. I'd like to have one but I'd probably never get one if they did offer it. I want a daily driver that's immensely fun and rewarding to drive. The M3 fits the bill for that. Even if the driving experience of the CSL is more so, the loss of practicality with the added expense of acquiring one makes it a no go for me.
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08-31-2008, 04:36 PM | #15 | |||
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08-31-2008, 04:48 PM | #16 | |
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If they made a big deal out of it I'm sure they would have fans. Look at the GT-R. They could make one that really attacks the 'Ring, set a 'Ring record and have bragging rights. You can't tell me that would hurt sales. I didn't exactly mean the ride. I've had harsh rides before and used them as a DD. But, I guess it depends on exactly how they engineer the E92 CSL. I don't think cardboard trunk floors are too practical. If it were stronger yet still light, it would be better for a daily driver. If it could be more practical than the E46 CSL then I'd probably pick it over a GT3 if I could afford one, or rather fit it in the budget.
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08-31-2008, 06:00 PM | #17 |
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People Dont Get It....the Cayenne Is Not The Same As An M X5 Or X6..... If Porsche Makes A Cayenne Rs... Then It Will Be The Same.... God
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08-31-2008, 06:13 PM | #18 | ||||
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Unlikely, but the real danger is other manufacturers stepping in with CSL like "less comprimised" cars, and stealing the excitement and eventually the show from BMW. BMW has to keep on innovating and demonstrating the capabilities of its M division with extreme products such as the CSL or something else in conjunction with the regular M lineup.
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08-31-2008, 07:17 PM | #19 | |||
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08-31-2008, 08:00 PM | #20 | |
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08-31-2008, 08:20 PM | #21 |
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If BMW really needs a showcase car, I'd think a mid-engine two-seater would fit the bill better than the CSL. Not exactly like an Elise though. It should still have some luxury to it -- leather, nav, safety, etc. More like an exotic car.
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08-31-2008, 09:54 PM | #22 |
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The GTR, AMG Black, R8, GT3, ACR, and Z06 are not like the CSL, they are not as limited. I reckon that the "something" must be something that they can sell in numbers. A 2-door, perhaps mid-engine flagship, another CSL might not be the best solution.
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