Stock M3 DCT vs stock C6 vette

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by m3alabama

Here is another clueless guy. The m3 puts down more torque in every single gear to the wheels than the vette. The vette pulls soley due to much lower weight (about 300 pounds less). Calculate the torque to the wheels yourself if you don't believe it. Multiply the m3 final drive, times each gear times the torque max and do the same for the vette. The m3 has huge mutliplication from gears so the vette does not have the "torque" as you say

At any given instant, it's power and weight that determine acceleration. Torque, not so much.

The M3 can pretty much hold its own (or even pull out on) the Vette off the line because it's easier to launch. Those PS2s work well compared to the runflats in the Vette. In addition, the shorter gearing in the bimmer means that it can climb the power curve quicker than the Vette does in first gear, thus temporarily lessening the Vette's power to weight advantage. From second gear on, the Vette will pull on the M3.

Still, the M3 is a bit of an overachiever compared to the Vette in a quarter mile, and the results are surprisingly close. Granted, the Vette is pulling nicely on the bimmer at the finish line, and will continue to pull after that.

Overall, its close enough so that, if you line up with an M3 in your plastic bullet, better bring your A game, or you might get some exhaust blown in your grille, especially if it's an automatic M3.

Bruce

[WRXXX]

Torque to the wheels is the sole thing that ultimately determines acceleration along with weight. HP is the better measure than engine torque but actual torque at the wheels is the direct force which moves a mass which is the acceleration equation. So its wheel torque /mass if proper units are used which gives acceleration

Oh no, not another HP/TQ breakdown again. Head hurts

[CCLSVTM3]

Not to long ago, I was driving on the 10 fwy in SoCal around midnight. A yellow vette with a wicked sounding exhaust rolled along side of me. He rev'ed up several times so I downshifted to third and we took off. He pulled to about just in front of my car and that was it. I was able to stay there a few ft behind his rear bumper. I have very minimal mods, and I'm guessing it was an automatic vette or we was just toying with me. I didn't expect to stay there with him to about 125 mph when he let off to exit the freeway.

[muskamatt]

How about on a track? No one wants to bring that up?

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by m3alabama

Torque to the wheels is the sole thing that ultimately determines acceleration along with weight. HP is the better measure than engine torque but actual torque at the wheels is the direct force which moves a mass which is the acceleration equation. So its wheel torque /mass if proper units are used which gives acceleration

Of course you're correct, but when doing calculations it's a bunch easier to just work with power, since it simplifies everything. If two cars are side by side when they punch it, the one making more power to weight at that instant will pull on the other car, torque and gearing be damned.

Of course I'm ignoring differences in aerodynamics, rotational inertia, rolling resistance, etc.

Bruce

[chris719]

It's shocking how few people understand the relationship between crank torque, hp, and wheel torque. Great to see for once there is no confusion in a thread.

[swamp2]

^ Way too optimistic. I've seen quite a few threads where folks clearly do not understand the difference. Hopefully it won't turn into another one of those threads...

[NYC6]

I dont often pop in to this section but did tonite. I own a LS2 C6. Its far from stock now but when it was I ran several V8 M3's. From a dig and roll the stock Vette pulled them pretty good. Light weight, 400ft lbs and 285 rear tires see to that pretty well. Very low 4s 0-60's are the norm and all that TQ really comes in handy for hwy rolls.

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

no chance with the c6

I'm SC and I'm affraid of stock z06's... i'm pretty sure a bolt on ls3 could also give me a run for the money...

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by kotik

no chance with the c6

I'm SC and I'm affraid of stock z06's... i'm pretty sure a bolt on ls3 could also give me a run for the money...

Very nice, what S/C? What kind of numbers does your M make.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by KKM3

I ran a stock c6 in both my Porsche and my m3 and I pulled away slowly in the Porsche but the vette was slightly faster than my dct m3 and it was an auto vette.

This sounds about right. A 997 Carrera S 2009+ will handily beat a DCT or 6mt M3 (even larger margin if its PDK) and will also beat a base C6 Vette though it will be closer.

[konaforever]

I'd like to run against a base C6 in my GTR, even though I'm not stock. I'd like to see the difference!

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

This sounds about right. A 997 Carrera S 2009+ will handily beat a DCT or 6mt M3 (even larger margin if its PDK) and will also beat a base C6 Vette though it will be closer.

I love my Porsche it never lets me down

[fusionchicken]

Originally Posted by konaforever

I'd like to run against a base C6 in my GTR, even though I'm not stock. I'd like to see the difference!

Lol that's just mean

You will walk a stock c6z if your r35 has any mods

[konaforever]

Originally Posted by fusionchicken

Lol that's just mean

You will walk a stock c6z if your r35 has any mods

True! But it would be fun to run one.

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Very nice, what S/C? What kind of numbers does your M make.

ESS 575... I don't know what it makes they say it should be around 510-520WHP.

[RedGT3]

Originally Posted by fusionchicken

Lol that's just mean

You will walk a stock c6z if your r35 has any mods

A 2009 GTR needs at least cobb stage 1 to keep up with a Z06 (stock) on a highway roll.

[AlteredBe4st]

Ok, what about stock C6 vs modded M3?

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by lenzm3edan

Ok, what about stock C6 vs modded M3?

Youre probably going to at very minimum need no primary cats, pulley, filter, and tune to keep pace.
The video on m5board of the 997.2 pulling bus lengths on that m3, the m3 has an exhaust and tune and dct yet still gets demolished by a stock pdk 997.2S which runs a little bit faster than a c6 in a straight.

[Onurleft]

Stock LS3 6 Speed automatic

A significant amount of power is lost through the torque converter so a manual car with the "right" driver is going to have a solid pull

The LS2 car is where it's very close.

[KKM3]

A dct equipped m3 should beat an auto vette with 400 hp. If ur talking about the ls2 with 430 hp it will be very very close.

[alms211]

Originally Posted by KKM3

A dct equipped m3 should beat an auto vette with 400 hp. If ur talking about the ls2 with 430 hp it will be very very close.

The ls3 is the one making 430 hp