M3 V8 durability?

[MBITION]

Originally Posted by kyotousa

then he got a lemon car....are you trying to be funny?

besides it is BS you said "hopefully it'll get straighten out in June 1st" and now he returned it already lol

I didn't know Lemon law work in 3days....some retard

Hey Forest, don't try to hard to read into what people say, what I said was that I hope it gets worked out, translation being "in future years/models" not on my friend's specific car, since he has ALREADY returned it! Maybe he did get a fluke, but that was the experience that he had. It's not BS, and I'm not trying to be a prick, but don't be so quick to slam someone.

[2m3]

Originally Posted by JEllis

I would really like to know why the quality of materials in older Ms is superior to the materials used in the new ones????? Especially when the new M is coming with things like a Composite Roof, Forged Aluminum drive shaft, and an all aluminum engine.... Things no previous M3 has had!

Jason

Those items are mitigating factors rather than an improvement to me.

DO not get me wrong, I lust for this new E92 especially the engine, but it would be even better if they made it the way it was in the old days. If you are a long time reader of Roundel magazine, you know what I am talking about.

[ruff]

Continue to read on other forums about BMW no longer giving CPO status to the e60 M5 nor to the future e92 M. In addition, BMW is apparently no longer offering extended warranties to these cars? I guess the E46 M and M Coupe are the last to offer these vitaly important warranty options. If this is the case, it may be time to look elsewhere. These warranties were a major factor as to why I considered BMW over other manufactures. Anyone heard different?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ruff

Continue to read on other forums about BMW no longer giving CPO status to the e60 M5 nor to the future e92 M. In addition, BMW is apparently no longer offering extended warranties to these cars? I guess the E46 M and M Coupe are the last to offer these vitaly important warranty options. If this is the case, it may be time to look elsewhere. These warranties were a major factor as to why I considered BMW over other manufactures. Anyone heard different?

It seems like posting links to these threads would be a great idea right about now...

[lucid]

Originally Posted by ruff

Continue to read on other forums about BMW no longer giving CPO status to the e60 M5 nor to the future e92 M. In addition, BMW is apparently no longer offering extended warranties to these cars? I guess the E46 M and M Coupe are the last to offer these vitaly important warranty options. If this is the case, it may be time to look elsewhere. These warranties were a major factor as to why I considered BMW over other manufactures. Anyone heard different?

Why would BMW not offer extended warranty on any of its models? Car manufacturers make good money out of such contracts as long as they have reliable service data they can use to build risk models from so that they can price the contracts in their favor. (read my post on this thread, post #4). One can argue BMW does not have enough data on the new engine and so forth, but there are other ways to estimate that based on the data they have on similar engines/products. This speculation is all a bunch of BS...

[tdc]

You guys are confusing Extended MAINTENANCE with Extended WARRANTY.

These are two completely separate and different things. Maintenance is the regular upkeep of the vehicle, ie., oil changes, air filter changes, fuel filter changes, brakes, brake fluid flushes, coolant flushes, spark plugs, differential oil changes, transmission oil changes, belts, gaskets, and hoses. It has NOTHING to do with a warranty (which only covers manufacturing defects or workmanship issues).

Not allowing M cars to extend the maintenance plan is just BMW trying to make more money. It has nothing to do with the reliability of the vehicle or its engine.

As for not CPO'ing M cars, I've never heard that. I've seen countless M5's that have CPO status so I don't know where that rumour originated from.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by tdc

You guys are confusing Extended MAINTENANCE with Extended WARRANTY.

These are two completely separate and different things. Maintenance is the regular upkeep of the vehicle, ie., oil changes, air filter changes, fuel filter changes, brakes, brake fluid flushes, coolant flushes, spark plugs, differential oil changes, transmission oil changes, belts, gaskets, and hoses. It has NOTHING to do with a warranty (which only covers manufacturing defects or workmanship issues).

Not allowing M cars to extend the maintenance plan is just BMW trying to make more money. It has nothing to do with the reliability of the vehicle or its engine.

As for not CPO'ing M cars, I've never heard that. I've seen countless M5's that have CPO status so I don't know where that rumour originated from.

I've been talking about extended warranty all along. What makes you think anyone here is talking about extended maintenance? As far as I know BMW has never offered free maintenance beyond 50k miles in the US. Has it? If it hasn't, what exactly is extended maintenance?

If your piston ring blows or VANOS decides to ruin your valves at 80k, and if you have 100k extended warranty, you will be covered assuming you haven't gone over the allowed number of years. That's the kind of thing I think people are talking about (correct me if someone else has explicitly mentioned something that goes against this)--not scheduled maintanence such as oil changes or belt replacements. And that's the kind of thing that really drains your budget. And that has everything to do with the reliability of an engine.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by tdc

Not allowing M cars to extend the maintenance plan is just BMW trying to make more money. It has nothing to do with the reliability of the vehicle or its engine.

I'm just want to clarify one thing. Are you saying that you can confirm that this is the case - that BMW no longer offers extended maintenance for M vehicles?

At any rate ruff's original claim was that BMW was discontinuing:

- extended maintentance
- extended warranty
- CPO

Although he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to provide any proof to those claims. I notice he's also joining the "let's dog BMW" party in the JD Power thread on E90Post.

So how 'bout some links, ruff?

[tdc]

Originally Posted by lucid

What makes you think anyone here is talking about extended maintenance?

The original post makes me think that he's talking about extended maintenance.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I'm just want to clarify one thing. Are you saying that you can confirm that this is the case - that BMW no longer offers extended maintenance for M vehicles?

At any rate ruff's original claim was that BMW was discontinuing:

- extended maintentance
- extended warranty
- CPO

Although he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to provide any proof to those claims. I notice he's also joining the "let's dog BMW" party in the JD Power thread on E90Post.

So how 'bout some links, ruff?

Correct, E60 M5, E63/64 M6, and Alpina B7 are not part of the optional Maintenance Plan Upgrade program. The E92 M3 isn't listed either but that could simply be because the vehicle hasn't even started production. The M vehicles that are listed are E36, E46, E39, E85, and E86.

However, no where has it been stated from an official BMW source that those vehicles cannot be Certified Pre-Owned or ineligible for the Original Owner Protection warranties offered by BMW. I will continue my research on these two items but thus far I have come up with anything saying anything to that effect.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by tdc

The original post makes me think that he's talking about extended maintenance.


Correct, E60 M5, E63/64 M6, and Alpina B7 are not part of the optional Maintenance Plan Upgrade program. The E92 M3 isn't listed either but that could simply be because the vehicle hasn't even started production. The M vehicles that are listed are E36, E46, E39, E85, and E86.

However, no where has it been stated from an official BMW source that those vehicles cannot be Certified Pre-Owned or ineligible for the Original Owner Protection warranties offered by BMW. I will continue my research on these two items but thus far I have come up with anything saying anything to that effect.

Okay, it looks like I lost track of the original post. And to clarify: Everything I've posted on this thread concerns the extended warranty only. Let us know if you find out anything from BMW.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by tdc

Correct, E60 M5, E63/64 M6, and Alpina B7 are not part of the optional Maintenance Plan Upgrade program. The E92 M3 isn't listed either but that could simply be because the vehicle hasn't even started production. The M vehicles that are listed are E36, E46, E39, E85, and E86.

Great info, thanks. We will have to wait and see for the E9X M3. I guess one thing to be hopeful about is that they do offer it for E85 and E86 which are recent M vehicles. But then they are still using the older S54 motor too.

However, no where has it been stated from an official BMW source that those vehicles cannot be Certified Pre-Owned or ineligible for the Original Owner Protection warranties offered by BMW. I will continue my research on these two items but thus far I have come up with anything saying anything to that effect.

Thanks - let us know if you find anything.

[tdc]

Ok, apparently extended warranty offerings are regulated on a state by state basis. For example, Florida does not allow non-insurance companies to sell extended warranties as they deem them as a form of insurance. Therefore, BMW dealers cannot sell the BMW extended warranty as BMW is not an insurance company. So a lot of dealers sell third-party (aftermarket) extended warranties. However, NY views extended warranties on vehicles as simply extended warranties and holds no ties whatsoever to insurance. So, NY BMW dealers can sell the BMW warranty without issue.

In a nutshell, check with your particular state to see their stance on vehicle extended warranties.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by tdc

Ok, apparently extended warranty offerings are regulated on a state by state basis. For example, Florida does not allow non-insurance companies to sell extended warranties as they deem them as a form of insurance. Therefore, BMW dealers cannot sell the BMW extended warranty as BMW is not an insurance company. So a lot of dealers sell third-party (aftermarket) extended warranties. However, NY views extended warranties on vehicles as simply extended warranties and holds no ties whatsoever to insurance. So, NY BMW dealers can sell the BMW warranty without issue.

In a nutshell, check with your particular state to see their stance on vehicle extended warranties.

Good point about state regulations. To further complicate matters, did you know that states can hold manufacturers to certain reliability standards? To the best of my knowledge, CA has a regulation stating that timing belts should be designed and built to last 100k miles. I know I read this in a reputable source, but cannot recall it. This, if indeed true, could mean that, in CA, if you don't change your timing belt at the usually suggested 60k miles, and if you timing belt fails before 100k, you can hold the manufacturer responsible.

[tdc]

Oh, and for the record, BMW has been offering maintenance plan upgrades since 2000. Back then they had a 4yr/50k extension (since the cars only came with a 3yr/36k maintenance plan) and the 6yr/100k extension.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It seems like posting links to these threads would be a great idea right about now...

These are not the direct links to the threads but these are the forums where I am reading about this. Not trying to cause any heartache, just asking questions.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/index.php

[lucid]

Originally Posted by tdc

Oh, and for the record, BMW has been offering maintenance plan upgrades since 2000. Back then they had a 4yr/50k extension (since the cars only came with a 3yr/36k maintenance plan) and the 6yr/100k extension.

I can't understand why people would purchase a maintenance plan upgrade since that would only cover items that would need to be dealt with during scheduled maintenance, and it is clear what those items are, so there should really be no ambiguity about how much they will cost and when. So, it sounds like some people want to pay for all that up front for some reason rather than paying for them each time they go to the dealer. Maybe the only exception I can think of is the brakes since that does depend on how you drive. Does paying up front result in some kind of overall discount? Am I missing something here?

[tdc]

Originally Posted by lucid

I can't understand why people would purchase a maintenance plan upgrade since that would only cover items that would need to be dealt with during scheduled maintenance, and it is clear what those items are, so there should really be no ambiguity about how much they will cost and when. So, it sounds like some people want to pay for all that up front for some reason rather than paying for them each time they go to the dealer. Maybe the only exception I can think of is the brakes since that does depend on how you drive. Does paying up front result in some kind of overall discount? Am I missing something here?

It's a HUGE discount. An Inspection I service runs around $1500, Inspection II runs close to $2000. Brakes are going to run $2300.

The Maintenance Plan Upgrade (MPU) is only going to run you $1895 which extends the coverage to a total of 6 years or 100k miles, whichever comes first, and covers all of those expensive services.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by tdc

It's a HUGE discount. An Inspection I service runs around $1500, Inspection II runs close to $2000. Brakes are going to run $2300.

The Maintenance Plan Upgrade (MPU) is only going to run you $1895 which extends the coverage to a total of 6 years or 100k miles, whichever comes first, and covers all of those expensive services.

I don't have my owner's manual with me, but I think Inspection I is covered during the initial free 50k/4yr maintenance plan, right? At what milage does Inspection II happen? 60k?

So, it would seem that with the breaks and Inspection II, the MPU is about $4k in value, and costs $1.9k. This says 2 things: 1) Maintenance margins at BMW dealers are huge, so they can still make money at 50% discount; and/or 2) A significant portion of the people who purchase the MPU do not actually use it in full.

Anyway, thanks for the info.