Drove my M3 and a 991S back-to-back today

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by hakaida442

I originally wanted a new 991 C2S, but went for a used 997.2 Carrera GTS. It just felt like it had more soul and more like what a 911 should feel like.

Can't go wrong with a GTS either. Its a step between the standard 997 and a GT3, having some of that raw charecter while still allowing more street drivabliity.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by chriszeh

Can't go wrong with a GTS either. Its a step between the standard 997 and a GT3, having some of that raw charecter while still allowing more street drivabliity.

As good as the 997 and 997.2 S models were, the GTS was even better. You can get some decent deals on them now too.

[clar]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Ive had the chance to drive the 991S on a few occassions and gotten to really put the car through its paces.
Performance, simply put is insane. Will run with most cars with 500 hp. The handling is sublime...crisp and absolutely pin point accurate (think sniper rifle hitting target on a boat going up and down with 8 foot sweels from a mile away accurate).
In terms of steering...I do not agree on this aspect. The 991S even though it has electric steering (which everyone is transitioning to) is still amazing and the e9X M3 still cant match it by any means. The Carrera S was on par with the last 997 Mk2 GT3 I drove...it was that good! Definitely still the standard of standards for best in the industry. And you know it will be even more dialed in with the GTX models.
All in all, its taken performance and handling to a new level. Plus the design is aggessive and flows well and the interior is again a new standard.
I cannot wait to see the turbo and upcoming GTx model.

It's u again, shift@red. U never give up, do u?

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by clar

It's u again, shift@red. U never give up, do u?

[Bocassden]

Originally Posted by alms211

It's good (the 991) but there is no way in hell I am paying $110K, let alone $130K, for a 911..........unless it is a GT versioned one.

Price point vs price point (M3 vs 991) the 991 is nowhere close to being a $40-60K better car in any way shape or form. No way, no how.

"Price point vs. price point..."

Hmmmm. I think I've heard a similar argument before. It was on a mustang forum talking about the M3...

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by alms211

It's good (the 991) but there is no way in hell I am paying $110K, let alone $130K, for a 911..........unless it is a GT versioned one.

Price point vs price point (M3 vs 991) the 991 is nowhere close to being a $40-60K better car in any way shape or form. No way, no how.

Thats your opinion...its not stopping droves of people from buying the 991 at 110-130K with options.

Same could be said for a Mustang vs. M3...M3 isnt worth 30-40K more.

Same could be said that a 458 italia isnt worth 270K more than an M3.

Price point is dependant of many factors, all of which some wont pay for. The 30-40K extra is what you pay to play for the huge step up in performance and quality, etc.
Porsches, Ferraris, Astons, Lambos have never been about bang for your buck. If you want more for your money, the M3, Mustang, Z06, and GTR are your ticket but again, you get what you pay for.

[ChinoOrtega]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=OnSpVN0-wio

just saw this, impressive time 7:37:29 at the ring, driven by Timo Kluck

[alms211]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Thats your opinion...its not stopping droves of people from buying the 991 at 110-130K with options.

Same could be said for a Mustang vs. M3...M3 isnt worth 30-40K more.

Same could be said that a 458 italia isnt worth 270K more than an M3.

Price point is dependant of many factors, all of which some wont pay for. The 30-40K extra is what you pay to play for the huge step up in performance and quality, etc.
Porsches, Ferraris, Astons, Lambos have never been about bang for your buck. If you want more for your money, the M3, Mustang, Z06, and GTR are your ticket but again, you get what you pay for.

No Greg (we know its you so don't play dumb with us) that is not my "opinion". It is fact. A 991S Porsche isn't worth $110-130K when you can get an M3 for $65K. That is a 40-50% delta. The 991 isn't worth a 40% increase over an M3. It just isn't. I don't care how much you think Porsche is the end all, be all. As you know, I've owned plenty of them. They are great cars......and are waaay overpriced brand new. A base Mustang GT is pure and utter garbage. It is indeed cheaper than an M3 but you get a far far inferior "all around" vehicle for a delta that is not nearly as great as the delta between an M3 and a 991S. The build quality of an M3 is not far superior to a 991.....the build quality of a $40K Mustang is far inferior to an M3.

For the record, a Porsche is not in the same league as an Aston Martin, Ferrari or Lambo. It is from a performance standpoint but as an overall "wow" factor it isn't. As I have said earlier, the 991 is a fantastic machine and I actually like it with the longer wheelbase, etc (save for the electric steering and the god awful electric ebrake)......but still, it's a 911 Porsche for Christsake. Look at the jump in price from the 997.2 to the 991. Porsche is smoking some serious weed.

[alms211]

Originally Posted by Bocassden

"Price point vs. price point..."

Hmmmm. I think I've heard a similar argument before. It was on a mustang forum talking about the M3...

See my comment above. I don't need to say anymore. Either you get it or you don't.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by alms211

No Greg (we know its you so don't play dumb with us) that is not my "opinion". It is fact. A 991S Porsche isn't worth $110-130K when you can get an M3 for $65K. That is a 40-50% delta. The 991 isn't worth a 40% increase over an M3. It just isn't. I don't care how much you think Porsche is the end all, be all. As you know, I've owned plenty of them. They are great cars......and are waaay overpriced brand new. A base Mustang GT is pure and utter garbage. It is indeed cheaper than an M3 but you get a far far inferior "all around" vehicle for a delta that is not nearly as great as the delta between an M3 and a 991S. The build quality of an M3 is not far superior to a 991.....the build quality of a $40K Mustang is far inferior to an M3.

For the record, a Porsche is not in the same league as an Aston Martin, Ferrari or Lambo.

Sorry, but my name is Peter.

You are correct on one thing...the m3 is not even close to the quality of the 991 (its far inferior)...nothing short of a Bentley can touch their quality at this point.
Porsche, Lambo, Aston, Ferrari all are absolutely in the same league. Porsches car are built better than all of them, and performance all have their pros and cons.

For the record, the 911 may not be 'exotic' enough for YOU compared to a Ferrari or Lambo, but that doesnt mean its not in the same league. Doubt anyone would agree with that. I dont recall the new Mclaren or the 458 being able to top the GT3RS or RS 4.0 as far as being a better car. The 918 Spyder is far and above better than anything Ferrari or Lambo have ever done and will be for some time to come and its much better looking too.

[alms211]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Sorry, but my name is Peter.

You are correct on one thing...the m3 is not even close to the quality of the 991 (its far inferior)...nothing short of a Bentley can touch their quality at this point.
Porsche, Lambo, Aston, Ferrari all are absolutely in the same league. Porsches car are built better than all of them, and performance all have their pros and cons.

For the record, the 911 may not be 'exotic' enough for YOU compared to a Ferrari or Lambo, but that doesnt mean its not in the same league. Doubt anyone would agree with that. I dont recall the new Mclaren or the 458 being able to top the GT3RS or RS 4.0 as far as being a better car. The 918 Spyder is far and above better than anything Ferrari or Lambo have ever done and will be for some time to come and its much better looking too.

You're a liar. I will guarantee that if the moderators look up your IP address they will see it is from either Connecticut or New Jersey....or you are logged in on someone else's computer. There is no Porsche nutswinger quite like you Greg. You just can't hide it. Anyone that doubts me, go check the posts that Shift@red, PaneristiDriver, and now WolfinWolfsclothing has posted since his "join" date of September 2012. His old posts have been deleted on you would know right away it is a dead give away.

Porsche being nothing short of Bentley quality.... You can't make this shit up

If you think for one second that a Porsche 911 carries the same cashe as a McLaren, Ferrari or Lambo you are suckling the Porsche nutsack in epic proportions. Get over it.

[konaforever]

My name is Anthony!

[808@702]

Originally Posted by konaforever

My name is Anthony!

Daves not here.

[Denk]

Dave? Dave who?

[klammer]

I like tacos

[1MOREMOD]

alms how are you making the guess that its greg? just the fact he likes porsche a little much. was he banned previously?

[sawzall]

Wow. Things are getting a bit harsh here. I'll try to be nice.

As someone who has owned an E92 M3 and now has a 991, I can honestly say there is a justifiable reason for the price difference. In Canada, a well equipped M3 will run around $94,000 after tax, and a 991S will run around $130,000 after tax.

I've spent a huge amount of time on the track with the 991S, and I'll begin by saying that the Porsche has brakes and then some. The OEM M3 brakes just don't have the heat capacity (I spent a fair amount moving up to a set of Alcons and track pads in the M3). Right here, the Porsche justifies $10K in price difference - I ran my 991S with OEM brakes/pads for 14 track days with meat still left on the pads. I glassed my OEM M3 pads after one track day. My Alcons solved the problem on the M3, but they weren't cheap.

The interior of the 991S is at least another $10K leap in quality. Partly due to the insanely stiff chassis and quality of the interior work, the car just doesn't make any noise. I couldn't say the same about the M3 after a year. The leather used in the cabin is extremely good quality, and the seats (i've got the sports seats plus) make the M3 seats feel like benches rather than buckets. If you've spent any amount of time in the 991 cabin, the differences become dead obvious.

And finally, the suspension, engine and transmission combination is worth at least another $10K if not more in the 991S. I've run the stock PZero on my 991 for over 14 track days, and the wear has been absolutely fantastic. The car is very easy going on its tires. The other thing is the gas mileage. Driving down from Toronto to the Glen, I used about 3/4 of a tank, even though I was often cruising at over 100mph through NY. My buddies with M3s used practicality double the amount of gas, and our cars put out pretty much the same power. And the car is phenomenally faster than the M3 (in the right hands - not necessarily mine )

I'm sure some of you will call me out saying i'm a biased 911 owner, but I can say the same about you M3 owners (and don't forget I was one). Looking at the amount I spent to get my M3 track worthy makes the price difference between the 911 and the M3 marginal at best. Frankly speaking, if you don't push the car to it's limits (i.e. track regularly), the difference between the two cars is probably not justifiable. But if you use the 911 (IMHO) the way it should be, you'll see that it definitely is worth it and then some.

That being said, the M3 is an amazing car. It is well built, good looking, fast and easy to drive. The E92 M3 can probably do 8/10ths of what the 991S can, but frankly, the remaining 2/10ths is worth the $30-$40K difference to me. Oh, and don't compare the Mustang GT to the M3, compare it to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Yeah, the interior sucks, but man that car is a thrill and a half. Pretty much the same performance as the M3, but 2/3 the price.

[clar]

Originally Posted by chriszeh

alms how are you making the guess that its greg? just the fact he likes porsche a little much. was he banned previously?

Very simple, he claims to drive an M3 every time, but comes in rattling on and on about Porsche non stop. What kind of M3 driver would drive an M3, but thinks so little of it and thinks Porsche is the best thing since slice bread? There has only ever been one...

[clar]

Originally Posted by shizzle

Wow. Things are getting a bit harsh here. I'll try to be nice.

As someone who has owned an E92 M3 and now has a 991, I can honestly say there is a justifiable reason for the price difference. In Canada, a well equipped M3 will run around $94,000 after tax, and a 991S will run around $130,000 after tax.

I've spent a huge amount of time on the track with the 991S, and I'll begin by saying that the Porsche has brakes and then some. The OEM M3 brakes just don't have the heat capacity (I spent a fair amount moving up to a set of Alcons and track pads in the M3). Right here, the Porsche justifies $10K in price difference - I ran my 991S with OEM brakes/pads for 14 track days with meat still left on the pads. I glassed my OEM M3 pads after one track day. My Alcons solved the problem on the M3, but they weren't cheap.

The interior of the 991S is at least another $10K leap in quality. Partly due to the insanely stiff chassis and quality of the interior work, the car just doesn't make any noise. I couldn't say the same about the M3 after a year. The leather used in the cabin is extremely good quality, and the seats (i've got the sports seats plus) make the M3 seats feel like benches rather than buckets. If you've spent any amount of time in the 991 cabin, the differences become dead obvious.

And finally, the suspension, engine and transmission combination is worth at least another $10K if not more in the 991S. I've run the stock PZero on my 991 for over 14 track days, and the wear has been absolutely fantastic. The car is very easy going on its tires. The other thing is the gas mileage. Driving down from Toronto to the Glen, I used about 3/4 of a tank, even though I was often cruising at over 100mph through NY. My buddies with M3s used practicality double the amount of gas, and our cars put out pretty much the same power. And the car is phenomenally faster than the M3 (in the right hands - not necessarily mine )

I'm sure some of you will call me out saying i'm a biased 911 owner, but I can say the same about you M3 owners (and don't forget I was one). Looking at the amount I spent to get my M3 track worthy makes the price difference between the 911 and the M3 marginal at best. Frankly speaking, if you don't push the car to it's limits (i.e. track regularly), the difference between the two cars is probably not justifiable. But if you use the 911 (IMHO) the way it should be, you'll see that it definitely is worth it and then some.

That being said, the M3 is an amazing car. It is well built, good looking, fast and easy to drive. The E92 M3 can probably do 8/10ths of what the 991S can, but frankly, the remaining 2/10ths is worth the $30-$40K difference to me.

Most of what u said about the 991 is true. If only i could get over the awful sound and electric steering...

[sawzall]

Originally Posted by clar

Most of what u said about the 991 is true. If only i could get over the awful sound and electric steering...

LOL. There are two major things I miss about my M3. Nothing beats the sound of the V8 at 8,000+ rpm. And I miss the thick steering wheel of the M3.

The electric steering isn't really a big deal. Just stay away from the power steering plus option - that's the one that kills low speed feel (and what every press car tested has as stock). At the track, and in regular driving, the steering of the Porsche is amazingly accurate, and when you're on the track, you'll just marvel at how accurate it is.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by clar

Very simple, he claims to drive an M3 every time, but comes in rattling on and on about Porsche non stop. What kind of M3 driver would drive an M3, but thinks so little of it and thinks Porsche is the best thing since slice bread? There has only ever been one...

im actually a porsche fanboy also just have never been able to swallow the used gt3 price above a new m3 thing.

[alms211]

You guys that say you are Porsche fanbois as well, I have a question for you. Have you ever owned a 911 or Boxster or Cayman of any kind? I have...and have owned plenty (look at my signature line). Yes, they are fantastic cars but I have to tell you, they are not all that. Each and every one that I have owned felt so light and "floaty" at anything north of 130 mph. The 997 Turbo is an amazing car and has crazy amounts of performance. But that car stickers for $140K....One hundred forty thousand dollars!!! I bought a four year old one for $70K even. Would pay that amount of money all day long for that car. But I'm sorry man, that car is not worth $140K brand new. It just isn't. A 991S is going to cost you a minimum of $125K. Can you seriously sit there and say that it is worth nearly TWICE what a new M3 is going to cost you? Or is worth $30K more than a GTR? GTFOH!!!!!