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      10-03-2011, 09:54 PM   #375
aus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
If you wreck your car while their is an instructor riding with you the instructor is not required to pay for the damage.

CA
My point is, how does a car run up and crash into another car with an instructor in the car? Unless the guys just brain farted and froze.
It's also obviously not a good idea to be mixing Advance drivers with intermediate drivers.
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      10-03-2011, 10:01 PM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
My point is, how does a car run up and crash into another car with an instructor in the car? Unless the guys just brain farted and froze.
It's also obviously not a good idea to be mixing Advance drivers with intermediate drivers.
I don't understand what the instructor could do?

He can't control the gas brake etc.. Even if he grabbed the wheel...

And instructor isn't going to be able to prevent an accident if the driver has already lost it
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      10-04-2011, 10:15 AM   #377
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The instructor keeps people in check and offers another set of eyes for what's going on WAY ahead of you and behind you.
I'm not saying it would have prevented a crash, but it's pretty rare with the SoCal CCA club, particularly a car on car accident.
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      10-04-2011, 11:44 AM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
The instructor keeps people in check and offers another set of eyes for what's going on WAY ahead of you and behind you.
I'm not saying it would have prevented a crash, but it's pretty rare with the SoCal CCA club, particularly a car on car accident.
I saw an incident a few years ago where a driver in a Ford GT had an instructor riding with him. This particular instuctor was literally "an instructor's instructor". He is a professional racing coach and travels all over the world to instruct professional race drivers.

He very clearly told the driver "Don't snap off the accerator". The driver felt the car begin to slide a bit on a curve, paniced and snapped off. The car spun instantly and scraped the wall. The left side of the car recevied a lot of damage but remained structurally intact and neither driver or coach was injured.

Having an instructor on board may make you safer but it does not make you invinceable.


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Last edited by captainaudio; 10-04-2011 at 01:04 PM.
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      10-04-2011, 11:45 AM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
The instructor keeps people in check and offers another set of eyes for what's going on WAY ahead of you and behind you.
I'm not saying it would have prevented a crash, but it's pretty rare with the SoCal CCA club, particularly a car on car accident.
Right right, makes sense

But I don't think people are as aggressive in CCA Club events, from what I've heard at least.
Never attended on personally, so I can only rely on what I've heard from others.
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      10-04-2011, 12:52 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I saw an incident a few years ago where a driver in a Ford GT had an instructor riding with him. This particular instuctor was literally "an instructor's instructor). He is a professional racing coach and travels all over the world to instruct professional race drivers.

He very clearly told the driver "Don't snap off the accerator". The driver felt the car begin to slide a bit on a curve, paniced and snapped off. The car spun instantly and scraped the wall. The left side of the car recevied a lot of damage but remained structurally intact and neither driver or coach was injured.

Having an instructor on board may make you safer but it does not make you invinceable.


CA
I absolutely agree. I think it just helps keep people in line a little, which I like when I'm driving my $70,000 daily driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
Right right, makes sense

But I don't think people are as aggressive in CCA Club events, from what I've heard at least.
Never attended on personally, so I can only rely on what I've heard from others.
Yes and now. When you get up to A, you're free to drive by yourself. Even in the B group, many are set free the last 1-2 sessions.
It's really instructor dependent. My last instructor was pretty aggressive after I earned his trust. He was telling me to floor it through certain turns. And when I did it, he'd be like, "I love that butt clinching feeling!!" Another time he was like, "you feel that? How it's almost out of control? I love that feeling!!"

You just have to earn their trust, but some instructors are definitely more up tight. They also emphasize smoothness over all out speed, saying the speed will come. Which is true, but not what your right foot wants to do.

.
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      10-04-2011, 02:42 PM   #381
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Full credit to the guy with Ducati!

I track my M3 all the time, as mentioned in a post ages ago in this thread, IMHO if you are an driving enthusiast verses a concours guy, you must get it out on the track, with insurance (don't even think about without it)

Since my last post I had the occasion to venture on to a track in a complete deluge (as wet as gets) really interesting, all low speed (only a nutter would get in to 3rd) but man did I have good time learning how my car performed in this situation (the odd spin/understeer and wobble however I would have done 50+ sweet slides in all sorts of corners) had a ball!

Dry is also amazing after an m3 then 911 gt3 now that is scary (btw be very careful going out of the gt3 back to an m3!) and yes I was insured in both.

Cheers
stu

See youtube "e92 hamptons" show me messing around at the end of a recent day
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      10-04-2011, 02:49 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwistu View Post
Full credit to the guy with Ducati!

I track my M3 all the time, as mentioned in a post ages ago in this thread, IMHO if you are an driving enthusiast verses a concours guy, you must get it out on the track, with insurance (don't even think about without it)

Since my last post I had the occasion to venture on to a track in a complete deluge (as wet as gets) really interesting, all low speed (only a nutter would get in to 3rd) but man did I have good time learning how my car performed in this situation (the odd spin/understeer and wobble however I would have done 50+ sweet slides in all sorts of corners) had a ball!

Dry is also amazing after an m3 then 911 gt3 now that is scary (btw be very careful going out of the gt3 back to an m3!) and yes I was insured in both.

Cheers
stu

See youtube "e92 hamptons" show me messing around at the end of a recent day
I totally agee that driving on a track is something that every driving enthusiast should try. Just remember that you are only racing yourself. As you gain car control skills and become smooth and consistant the speed will come.

I reached the point a few years ago where I realized that I wanted a dedicated track car as the qualities that I wanted in a track car were very different than the qualities I wanted in a road car.

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      10-04-2011, 03:02 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
My point is, how does a car run up and crash into another car with an instructor in the car? Unless the guys just brain farted and froze.
It's also obviously not a good idea to be mixing Advance drivers with intermediate drivers.
No car on car accident -- not sure what I said to suggest that. Both were single car accidents (car hits wall). As far as advanced running with intermediate, that's pretty common in my events, particularly if the advanced driver missed their session, and the advanced driver is not an aggressive a**hole (which I'm not). Intermediate running in advance wouldn't work. For me, it worked well -- with my higher skill level, I could test my skill in keeping up with drivers in much faster cars (a CTS-V for instance).
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      10-04-2011, 04:26 PM   #384
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This sentence sounded like car on car: "plowed what looked to be a virtually new M3 into the tire wall coming out of 12. "
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      10-04-2011, 05:11 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwistu View Post
Full credit to the guy with Ducati!

I track my M3 all the time, as mentioned in a post ages ago in this thread, IMHO if you are an driving enthusiast verses a concours guy, you must get it out on the track, with insurance (don't even think about without it)

Since my last post I had the occasion to venture on to a track in a complete deluge (as wet as gets) really interesting, all low speed (only a nutter would get in to 3rd) but man did I have good time learning how my car performed in this situation (the odd spin/understeer and wobble however I would have done 50+ sweet slides in all sorts of corners) had a ball!

Dry is also amazing after an m3 then 911 gt3 now that is scary (btw be very careful going out of the gt3 back to an m3!) and yes I was insured in both.

Cheers
stu

See youtube "e92 hamptons" show me messing around at the end of a recent day
Thanks man! You Aussies go pretty well on the Ducatis eh? A lot of my Aussie buddies send me their motorcycle racing videos from P.I. and Eastern Creek.


Captain, I agree 100%. Every enthusiast should try the track at least once. The only caveat....it's addictive!
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      10-04-2011, 05:29 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
This sentence sounded like car on car: "plowed what looked to be a virtually new M3 into the tire wall coming out of 12. "
Hmm

I read it as a "new m3 hit the tire wall coming out of 12"

English is a strange language...
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      10-04-2011, 05:38 PM   #387
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I went back to read it a few times and see what he was saying now.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      10-04-2011, 05:53 PM   #388
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Hi Guys

Just for the record a kiwi isn't an aussie. If were off shore in europe or something it's ANZAC's all the way.

But if were racing, sailing, or playing rugby...the little brother (NZ) will stick it up big brother (AUS) all day long.

Cheers
stu
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      10-04-2011, 06:41 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyj View Post
thats hwy im buying a 944 turbo. Great track cars. easy mods, big power, and an ls1 replacement option.
I did a quick search on this, and getting a 944 and putting an LS1 is pretty much same money as buying a Corvette.. My question is, what is the point? Internet says 944 is a very well balanced car. Is that the reason for all this trouble? Don't take this wrong, I'm also interested.
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      10-04-2011, 09:19 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
I did a quick search on this, and getting a 944 and putting an LS1 is pretty much same money as buying a Corvette.. My question is, what is the point? Internet says 944 is a very well balanced car. Is that the reason for all this trouble? Don't take this wrong, I'm also interested.
944 is a great car and with a simple tune puts out a good bunch of power. You can get them down to ~2400lbs also.

The hope would be to never have to put an ls1 in it, but if something bad did happened, instead of paying the Porsche premium, I'd slap american muscle in there and be done with it. Its nice to know there is an upgrade path.
I also happened to find a pretty decent deal on a track prepped 944. when you add all the safety bits, and track bits, cars get really expensive.

my other option was a spec miata, but for near the same price, im buying something with similar handling and a lot more power. I've not seen a track ready vett for near 10k (what 944 with ls1 swap would cost me). if you do, please point me in the right direction. I havent pulled the trigger yet
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      10-04-2011, 11:17 PM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyj View Post
my other option was a spec miata, but for near the same price, im buying something with similar handling and a lot more power. I've not seen a track ready vett for near 10k (what 944 with ls1 swap would cost me). if you do, please point me in the right direction. I havent pulled the trigger yet
How do you get 944 and LS1 for 10k? When I was looking at autotrader today, 10k barely gets a 944... And I think LS1 will cost another 10k all said and done. But if you mean a track car from like scca forums, those usually go cheap.

My assumption was 20-25k to buy a 944 and put an LS1 in it. For that money, you can buy a C5 Z06. I didn't think finding 944 with LS1 would be easy.

Btw, which 944 are you looking? NA or turbo? Looks like NA ones get about 190hp (944s) while turbo gets 220-250hp (turbo/turbo s). If the car can get down to 2400lbs, that's decent power.

One of the things I'm looking in a track car is light weight and small torque to keep running costs low (which is why I sold the M3).
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      10-05-2011, 08:10 AM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
How do you get 944 and LS1 for 10k? When I was looking at autotrader today, 10k barely gets a 944... And I think LS1 will cost another 10k all said and done. But if you mean a track car from like scca forums, those usually go cheap.

My assumption was 20-25k to buy a 944 and put an LS1 in it. For that money, you can buy a C5 Z06. I didn't think finding 944 with LS1 would be easy.

Btw, which 944 are you looking? NA or turbo? Looks like NA ones get about 190hp (944s) while turbo gets 220-250hp (turbo/turbo s). If the car can get down to 2400lbs, that's decent power.

One of the things I'm looking in a track car is light weight and small torque to keep running costs low (which is why I sold the M3).
sending pm so others can continue to talk about tracking their m3. To keep this on topic, I would not be looking at a dedicated track car if it were not for tracking my m3. I did not buy it to track, but learned just how much fun it is. So I guess I think everyone should track your m3 some. but if its something you are going to do all the time, and your m3 is your daily driver, then look for a dedicated track toy.
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