Gentleman I need advice on which M3 transmission

TailHappyM3 · 08-20-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWDAD

Like I said lets be nice! I am old.

Thank you, gentlemen I have two thoughts.

1. My sons client has a double clutch Ferrari (I do not know what it is called)
He told my son after a year he was bored and wished he went manual.

2. Car and Driver made a very interesting statement in M3 vs 911. (M3 won) They called the dct the second best car in the world behind the manual version. This is a very interesting statement.

Again I am not looking for a winner/loser here, just some thoughts of people like myself who were scared to go dct.

hahaha, that's a good one.

kcdude24 · 08-20-2010, 08:57 AM

I DD my 6MT (~8kmi/yr) and glad to have it. Have spent some track time in a DCT and it was incredible but that was on the track...my M3 will not be tracked and I want a more connected experience. Consider the use and what kind of drive you want.

dardeca · 08-20-2010, 09:10 AM

I drove both transmissions before ordering my '11 E92. In the end, I went with the DCT. The feel is AMAZING with that transmission and the features it has are out of this world. As earlier people have said, it's a personal choice, but for me...the DCT was something I couldn't pass up.

M3KW · 08-20-2010, 09:52 AM

As many have said here, go test drive both versions to see how it feels for yourself. Personally, I went DCT and had ALOT of doubts over the system and if I should go with manual transmission instead of the DCT. However, when my car was delivered and I drove it out for the first time with DCT, I was amazed at how fast and smooth the shifts were. Depending on your situation, you may opt for the manual or the DCT. There is no bad choice concerning transmission and you will find die hard fans of the DCT or the manual.

With regards to getting bored with a DCT transmission, I think that goes both ways with the manual as well IMO. It just depends what you will use the car for. The DCT is not perfect, don't expect it to be but for what it accomplishes, it works very well. I don't think you should have any fear if you opt for the DCT in either car. If you have never tried a DCT or something that isn't a manual transmission, why not give the DCT a test run? In the end, it depends on you alone because it is your money and your car. Don't count on these forums giving you many positives about DCT too as most of the time it is used as a fault report/help me place. I thought DCT was more unique for my needs and chose that.

HebrewhaM3r · 08-20-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWDAD

Like I said lets be nice! I am old.

Thank you, gentlemen I have two thoughts.

1. My sons client has a double clutch Ferrari (I do not know what it is called)
He told my son after a year he was bored and wished he went manual.

2. Car and Driver made a very interesting statement in M3 vs 911. (M3 won) They called the dct the second best car in the world behind the manual version. This is a very interesting statement.

Again I am not looking for a winner/loser here, just some thoughts of people like myself who were scared to go dct.

Nobody wants to call it what it is an auto tranny...if you're buying it in a golf it's an automatic. In a Porsche a PDK,BMW DCT,Audi DSG etc.

why is that?

tuco44 · 08-20-2010, 01:04 PM

I have had 13 BMWs and this M3 is the first with the M-DCT. I was a manual tranny driver for years.

I love the flexibility of the DCT and am very glad I chose it over the manual. My M3 is a daily-driver. Incidently, the DCT is not a conventional auto tranny (as others have said).

In the end, it's a personal choice and only the OP can make that call. Either way, the current M3 is one fantastic car..!!

skierman64 · 08-20-2010, 01:44 PM

I've been a MT driver my whole life. Now I've had DCT for 29 months and love it. No regrets.

graider · 08-20-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWDAD

Like I said lets be nice! I am old.

Thank you, gentlemen I have two thoughts.

1. My sons client has a double clutch Ferrari (I do not know what it is called)
He told my son after a year he was bored and wished he went manual.

2. Car and Driver made a very interesting statement in M3 vs 911. (M3 won) They called the dct the second best car in the world behind the manual version. This is a very interesting statement.

Again I am not looking for a winner/loser here, just some thoughts of people like myself who were scared to go dct.

I have SMG. if you commute to/from work with your m3, dct all the way. so many time i switch to auto and turn up my tune, sit back, relax, have my ice cap and let the trans do it thing while creeping through the heavy traffic.

if it is your second car for joy ride on the weekend, occasional tracking, or you don't drive it everyday, 6Mt all the way.

at the end of the day, you can always sell the DCT after a year or two and get a manual car if you feel bored with it. you don't really want to keep a car forever anyway unless it is a really expensive one.

gr8000 · 08-20-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skierman64

I've been a MT driver my whole life. Now I've had DCT for 29 months and love it. No regrets.

Same here - MT driver for 13 years until I got the DCT.

I got the M3 for 2 reasons, the NA V8 masterpiece and the DCT. I couldn't be happier with my choice.

MTRHEAD · 08-21-2010, 02:51 PM

BMWDAD,

I just made exactly the same move you are contemplating. 16 manual cars in my life, last 5 were manual BMW and would just never have considered auto or SMG for one moment. Also my last car was identical to yours; 335I 6sp MT. I picked up a used M3 DCT a few weeks ago and really agonised over whether I was doing the right thing so here is my summary:

1) Its taking far longer than I thought to get used to the change. I don't believe a test drive is going to help one make the right decision becuase it requires time to make the adjustment. I still feel somewhat "disconnected" and did right from the outset but this is beginning to change as I get more comfortable with what DCT is doing for me and what it is capable of.

2) I've realised DCT is a far better gear changer than I will ever be, and I thought I was pretty ok

As a previous poster said...the kickdown is doing things so well its quite breathtaking. In some ways I find it makes fast driving more enjoyable becuase slick manual changes when the engine is really "on song" was a a challenge on the 335I, I can imagine with the rate things happen on the M3 it would be even more so. I'm not saying a really good driver could not do better but in my advancing years I doubt I would!

3) I've found now I'm getting used to the Mdrive settings it really becomes two cars in one with the DCT. A fast comfortable GT when you want it with a nice relaxed D2 or D3 setting, a warp factor machine when you hit the Mdrive, dial up a Sequential mode on the high numbers and flick the paddles.

4) Having had a few BMW warranty issues over the years on their cars and bikes I do worry about the DCT reliability, as I do intend to keep the M3 for a few years beyond factory warranty. On the other hand (and I'm hoping here) the DCT might be less stressful on the car than a few fluffed gear changes or a fried clutch. However I'm in no doubt that once it fails its going to cost a whole stack on notes to fix.

5) On balance I'm glad I went for the DCT in moving from the 335I Manual. I think the M3 is definitely more "hard core capable" and DCT does seem a great match for the car and adds to the flexibility.

J08M3 · 08-21-2010, 03:03 PM

I have no issue using a 6MT in traffic, I don't see that side of the argument. Unless you're trying to do to many things at once, like hold a cell phone to your ear. Having to shift gears is really not that much work and soon as the traffic opens up it's a ton of fun.

starkraven · 08-21-2010, 05:33 PM

I have been a manual fan my entire life (I'm 37), and I originally looked down my nose at the DCT. I test drove a DCT M3, but didn't "give 'er all she's got" if you know what I mean. I know it wasn't my M3, but I felt bad for the poor sap that would have to buy the M3 later, so I was gentle.

I did the performance center delivery, where you do a few different exercises in a car just like yours. When you do the exercises, the instructors remind you, "NYT -- not your car", to encourage you to really test the car's limits.

Instead of a 6-speed, they assigned me a DCT. Holy crap. After beating the car up, I began to have second thoughts about my transmission choice. Now, I really love my 6-speed, but part of me views this car as the last one I'll own with a manual transmission. The DCT is simply still fun to drive.

VBM3 · 08-21-2010, 05:48 PM

I had a 2008 with DCT and just bought a 2011 with the 6 spd. Both have their pluses and minuses but in MO after 36K on the DCT I was experiencing a few quirks. It was my opinion to get a manual as I wanted a car I could keep long term.

sheepboy · 08-21-2010, 06:12 PM

I just wonder how many 6MT guys would have made the same transmission choice if DCT was not an extra $2900...

A question for the 6MT guys: If you really, really love 6MT, would you be willing to do the opposite, meaning, pay an extra $2900 for 6MT, if DCT was a standard option?

kitw · 08-21-2010, 06:21 PM

I owned an 08 335i manual and my wife drives an 09 steptronic. I've also owned a DCT Z4 Sdrive35i and an SMG-III e60 M5. I went M-DCT on my e90 m3, and I like it. I can't say I love it, and there are some days that I wish I had a stick... but, most days I'm happy with it.

M-DCT isn't perfect. I hate the delay when taking off from a start, I sometimes overcompensate and end up snapping everyone's neck. M-DCT does awesome compared to SMG-III, but it's still not as smooth as a good automatic. That said, when you are really on it, nothing compares to the shift speed and the smoothness even when you are in S6.

My biggest beef with BMW's recent transmissions is that they are long throw and often notchy in 2nd and 3rd. My E86 M roadster would grind into 2nd and I *hated* that. My 335i did it once in awhile, plus the damn delay valve (which is admittedly easy to fix) made the clutch wear fast.

If I could get a Porsche or an S2000 transmission in the M3, I probably would, but I hate futzing with short shifters (they always increase effort). I just want a nice solid feeling stick with good clutch feel and none of my manual transmission BMWs recently have been that way. (I liked my E36 M3 and my E46 M3 with auto solutions short shifters)

starkraven · 08-21-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepboy

A question for the 6MT guys: If you really, really love 6MT, would you be willing to do the opposite, meaning, pay an extra $2900 for 6MT, if DCT was a standard option?

See above, my tune has changed, but when I bought my M3, no doubt I would have paid $3K for the manual.

skierman64 · 08-21-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VBM3

I had a 2008 with DCT and just bought a 2011 with the 6 spd. Both have their pluses and minuses but in MO after 36K on the DCT I was experiencing a few quirks. It was my opinion to get a manual as I wanted a car I could keep long term.

Could we get some more info on the quirks?

Scoobe · 08-22-2010, 12:50 AM

I've been a manual guy all my life as well, especially in performance cars. But the M-DCT is just so much different than an auto or a manual, it's hard to characterize it as an auto transmission. I have 3k miles on my M3 now and the DCT is a big part of my smile when i got to work in the morning. I'm not sure I'd have the same amount of love for the car with a manual. At first, I understood the feeling of being "disconnected" from the driving experience with the DCT, but after 3k miles I actually feel as connected as a manual, but in a different way. The DCT takes a bit to learn and master. It feels like there is this harnessed power there that can only be unleashed with mastering the DCT. It's a bit hard to explain but now that I've learned all of the tips and techniques of it, I feel like a manual is a step backwards in being connected to the car, if that makes any sense. Like if a manual is 100% of what the car has to offer, DCT is 110%. It brings the car to its edge and holds it there far better than I could ever do with a manual.

J08M3 · 08-22-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepboy

I just wonder how many 6MT guys would have made the same transmission choice if DCT was not an extra $2900...

A question for the 6MT guys: If you really, really love 6MT, would you be willing to do the opposite, meaning, pay an extra $2900 for 6MT, if DCT was a standard option?

No doubt the DCT is an amazing piece of technology. But yes I would've still pay extra for a manual transmission if I had too. It's too much fun to to rev match, I'd never want the car to do that for me. Although I think this 6MT could be slightly better, especially the 1->2 shift. I just like the challenge of shifting gears, even if once in a while I completely miss a gear all together the game is fun. Simply pulling/pushing a paddle to shift a gear isn't as exciting to me.

J08M3 · 08-22-2010, 09:25 AM

Would probably change my mind if I spent 100% of the time on the track and needed the best times I could possibly get.

ChrisK · 08-22-2010, 09:34 AM

People this won't be your last car - right? Everyone is so obsessed with "Mine is better"

Lifetime MT driver, needed something new - went with DCT - no regrets.

08-20-2010, 08:57 AM	#24
kcdude24 First Lieutenant 6 Rep 324 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kansas City iTrader: (2)	I DD my 6MT (~8kmi/yr) and glad to have it. Have spent some track time in a DCT and it was incredible but that was on the track...my M3 will not be tracked and I want a more connected experience. Consider the use and what kind of drive you want.
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08-20-2010, 09:10 AM	#25
dardeca Major 500 Rep 1,313 Posts Drives: 2019 M5 Competition Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Dallas iTrader: (2)	I drove both transmissions before ordering my '11 E92. In the end, I went with the DCT. The feel is AMAZING with that transmission and the features it has are out of this world. As earlier people have said, it's a personal choice, but for me...the DCT was something I couldn't pass up.
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08-20-2010, 09:52 AM	#26
M3KW Private 0 Rep 68 Posts Drives: '11 E93 M3 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow iTrader: (0)	As many have said here, go test drive both versions to see how it feels for yourself. Personally, I went DCT and had ALOT of doubts over the system and if I should go with manual transmission instead of the DCT. However, when my car was delivered and I drove it out for the first time with DCT, I was amazed at how fast and smooth the shifts were. Depending on your situation, you may opt for the manual or the DCT. There is no bad choice concerning transmission and you will find die hard fans of the DCT or the manual. With regards to getting bored with a DCT transmission, I think that goes both ways with the manual as well IMO. It just depends what you will use the car for. The DCT is not perfect, don't expect it to be but for what it accomplishes, it works very well. I don't think you should have any fear if you opt for the DCT in either car. If you have never tried a DCT or something that isn't a manual transmission, why not give the DCT a test run? In the end, it depends on you alone because it is your money and your car. Don't count on these forums giving you many positives about DCT too as most of the time it is used as a fault report/help me place. I thought DCT was more unique for my needs and chose that.
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08-20-2010, 01:04 PM	#28
tuco44 Colonel 644 Rep 2,294 Posts Drives: 2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Western Canada iTrader: (0)	I have had 13 BMWs and this M3 is the first with the M-DCT. I was a manual tranny driver for years. I love the flexibility of the DCT and am very glad I chose it over the manual. My M3 is a daily-driver. Incidently, the DCT is not a conventional auto tranny (as others have said). In the end, it's a personal choice and only the OP can make that call. Either way, the current M3 is one fantastic car..!! __________________ 2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Sunset Orange Previous BMWs - 19 others since 1971.
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08-20-2010, 01:44 PM	#29
skierman64 Brigadier General 127 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: E92M3-E46M3-E46Wagon-E89Z4-E36 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Greater St Louis Metro area iTrader: (1) Garage List 1994 325is Race Car [0.00] 2011 BMW Z4 [0.00] 1998 M3 Coupe [0.00] 2008 M3 Coupe [0.00]	I've been a MT driver my whole life. Now I've had DCT for 29 months and love it. No regrets. __________________ Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/LEFT]
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08-21-2010, 02:51 PM	#32
MTRHEAD Enlisted Member 0 Rep 47 Posts Drives: 335I Msport Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bucks iTrader: (0)	BMWDAD, I just made exactly the same move you are contemplating. 16 manual cars in my life, last 5 were manual BMW and would just never have considered auto or SMG for one moment. Also my last car was identical to yours; 335I 6sp MT. I picked up a used M3 DCT a few weeks ago and really agonised over whether I was doing the right thing so here is my summary: 1) Its taking far longer than I thought to get used to the change. I don't believe a test drive is going to help one make the right decision becuase it requires time to make the adjustment. I still feel somewhat "disconnected" and did right from the outset but this is beginning to change as I get more comfortable with what DCT is doing for me and what it is capable of. 2) I've realised DCT is a far better gear changer than I will ever be, and I thought I was pretty ok As a previous poster said...the kickdown is doing things so well its quite breathtaking. In some ways I find it makes fast driving more enjoyable becuase slick manual changes when the engine is really "on song" was a a challenge on the 335I, I can imagine with the rate things happen on the M3 it would be even more so. I'm not saying a really good driver could not do better but in my advancing years I doubt I would! 3) I've found now I'm getting used to the Mdrive settings it really becomes two cars in one with the DCT. A fast comfortable GT when you want it with a nice relaxed D2 or D3 setting, a warp factor machine when you hit the Mdrive, dial up a Sequential mode on the high numbers and flick the paddles. 4) Having had a few BMW warranty issues over the years on their cars and bikes I do worry about the DCT reliability, as I do intend to keep the M3 for a few years beyond factory warranty. On the other hand (and I'm hoping here) the DCT might be less stressful on the car than a few fluffed gear changes or a fried clutch. However I'm in no doubt that once it fails its going to cost a whole stack on notes to fix. 5) On balance I'm glad I went for the DCT in moving from the 335I Manual. I think the M3 is definitely more "hard core capable" and DCT does seem a great match for the car and adds to the flexibility.
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08-21-2010, 03:03 PM	#33
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	I have no issue using a 6MT in traffic, I don't see that side of the argument. Unless you're trying to do to many things at once, like hold a cell phone to your ear. Having to shift gears is really not that much work and soon as the traffic opens up it's a ton of fun. __________________
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08-21-2010, 05:33 PM	#34
starkraven Private First Class 17 Rep 153 Posts Drives: 2019 540i G30 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Houston iTrader: (0)	I have been a manual fan my entire life (I'm 37), and I originally looked down my nose at the DCT. I test drove a DCT M3, but didn't "give 'er all she's got" if you know what I mean. I know it wasn't my M3, but I felt bad for the poor sap that would have to buy the M3 later, so I was gentle. I did the performance center delivery, where you do a few different exercises in a car just like yours. When you do the exercises, the instructors remind you, "NYT -- not your car", to encourage you to really test the car's limits. Instead of a 6-speed, they assigned me a DCT. Holy crap. After beating the car up, I began to have second thoughts about my transmission choice. Now, I really love my 6-speed, but part of me views this car as the last one I'll own with a manual transmission. The DCT is simply still fun to drive.
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08-21-2010, 05:48 PM	#35
VBM3 Enlisted Member 2 Rep 36 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 6spd Motons, AA Exh Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Virginia Beach iTrader: (0)	I had a 2008 with DCT and just bought a 2011 with the 6 spd. Both have their pluses and minuses but in MO after 36K on the DCT I was experiencing a few quirks. It was my opinion to get a manual as I wanted a car I could keep long term.
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08-21-2010, 06:12 PM	#36
sheepboy Second Lieutenant 58 Rep 224 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boston iTrader: (0)	I just wonder how many 6MT guys would have made the same transmission choice if DCT was not an extra $2900... A question for the 6MT guys: If you really, really love 6MT, would you be willing to do the opposite, meaning, pay an extra $2900 for 6MT, if DCT was a standard option? __________________ 2011 M3 Convertible / IB / Black on CF interior / ZCW / ZPP / ZTP / 19"wheels / MDCT / Premium sound / iPod adapter / Alarm / Park distance control / HD radio / A big smile in my face!
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08-21-2010, 06:21 PM	#37
kitw Colonel 471 Rep 2,991 Posts Drives: F91 M8, 991.2 GT3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (20)	I owned an 08 335i manual and my wife drives an 09 steptronic. I've also owned a DCT Z4 Sdrive35i and an SMG-III e60 M5. I went M-DCT on my e90 m3, and I like it. I can't say I love it, and there are some days that I wish I had a stick... but, most days I'm happy with it. M-DCT isn't perfect. I hate the delay when taking off from a start, I sometimes overcompensate and end up snapping everyone's neck. M-DCT does awesome compared to SMG-III, but it's still not as smooth as a good automatic. That said, when you are really on it, nothing compares to the shift speed and the smoothness even when you are in S6. My biggest beef with BMW's recent transmissions is that they are long throw and often notchy in 2nd and 3rd. My E86 M roadster would grind into 2nd and I hated that. My 335i did it once in awhile, plus the damn delay valve (which is admittedly easy to fix) made the clutch wear fast. If I could get a Porsche or an S2000 transmission in the M3, I probably would, but I hate futzing with short shifters (they always increase effort). I just want a nice solid feeling stick with good clutch feel and none of my manual transmission BMWs recently have been that way. (I liked my E36 M3 and my E46 M3 with auto solutions short shifters)
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08-22-2010, 12:50 AM	#40
Scoobe Lieutenant 19 Rep 562 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 Sedan SSII/SN/DCT Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E90 M3 [10.00]	I've been a manual guy all my life as well, especially in performance cars. But the M-DCT is just so much different than an auto or a manual, it's hard to characterize it as an auto transmission. I have 3k miles on my M3 now and the DCT is a big part of my smile when i got to work in the morning. I'm not sure I'd have the same amount of love for the car with a manual. At first, I understood the feeling of being "disconnected" from the driving experience with the DCT, but after 3k miles I actually feel as connected as a manual, but in a different way. The DCT takes a bit to learn and master. It feels like there is this harnessed power there that can only be unleashed with mastering the DCT. It's a bit hard to explain but now that I've learned all of the tips and techniques of it, I feel like a manual is a step backwards in being connected to the car, if that makes any sense. Like if a manual is 100% of what the car has to offer, DCT is 110%. It brings the car to its edge and holds it there far better than I could ever do with a manual. __________________ 08 GT500 convertible red package (Black w/ Red stripes) /Ford Racing Exhaust /Cold Air Induction 560hp 10 Porsche Cayenne GTS Black w/ Black Wheels 408hp 11 M3 Silverstone w/ Silver Novillo Leather /Tech /Premium /19" /DCT /Ipod 414hp
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08-22-2010, 09:25 AM	#42
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	Would probably change my mind if I spent 100% of the time on the track and needed the best times I could possibly get. __________________
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08-22-2010, 09:34 AM	#43
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	People this won't be your last car - right? Everyone is so obsessed with "Mine is better" Lifetime MT driver, needed something new - went with DCT - no regrets. __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
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