Manual Door lock/unlock?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by sheepboy

If you have to pull the door handle TWICE to open the door, it must be linked to some form of electronic override...

Strictly speaking that is not true. However, the mechanism to achieve that would not be cheaper than just using the electronics that already must be in place to support remote electronic lock/unlock, so I have to believe that indeed there is no strictly-mechanical way to unlock the door.

[sheepboy]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Fit in the ridiculously small glove box? What's the weight?

The tolls are fancy and look cool, but 1) you have to buy one; 2) you have to store them in an easy to reach location (inside the glovebox does not match this criteria) and 3) who knows where they will end up after a bad accident or with you car upside down.

I am going to highlight this so everyone sees it:

In a worst case scenario, you can pull out the headrest on you seat and break the window glass with the tip of one the the metal bars (It can save your life). The glass will resist blows with your hands and feet.

Your headrest is built into the car and will essentially always be in the same, easy-to-reach place. There are also 4 of them in the car, so if the driver and front passenger are unconscious, someone else in the back seat can reach for it. In addition, if you are not in your own car, like ChitownM3, you won't have your fancy tool in the glovebox, but you will have 4 headrests at your disposal...

With minimal practice you will learn how to remove it quickly. Again, it may save you life one day.

[JCtx]

Few comments folks:
- First and foremost, somebody here need to try that twice-pulling-on-the-handle 'mechanical' unlock with the battery disconnected. That'd stop the speculation .
- If you want to use the headrests as a tool, think again. Have you ever tried to remove one? I'd say there's no way you can remove one while seated, but give it a try. It takes significant force to remove since the last tab doesn't clear the button's release, so you have to overcome it by force. PLUS rear seats have to be folded to the front in order for the headrests to clear the ceiling, and you can only release seats from the trunk . Similarly, the front headrests would need the seat backs to be significantly reclined backward to clear ceiling as well, and that required power operation of the seats.
- Finally, a question more than a comment. I know BMW ASSIST is supposed to pop the locks open, turn lights on, and call 911 if airbags are deployed, but how about in case of a fire?

Hey OP, what make and model was the car in question? Thx.

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by sheepboy

The tolls are fancy and look cool, but 1) you have to buy one; 2) you have to store them in an easy to reach location (inside the glovebox does not match this criteria) and 3) who knows where they will end up after a bad accident or with you car upside down.

I am going to highlight this so everyone sees it:

In a worst case scenario, you can pull out the headrest on you seat and break the window glass with the tip of one the the metal bars (It can save your life). The glass will resist blows with your hands and feet.

Your headrest is built into the car and will essentially always be in the same, easy-to-reach place. There are also 4 of them in the car, so if the driver and front passenger are unconscious, someone else in the back seat can reach for it. In addition, if you are not in your own car, like ChitownM3, you won't have your fancy tool in the glovebox, but you will have 4 headrests at your disposal...

With minimal practice you will learn how to remove it quickly. Again, it may save you life one day.

That's kinda why I was asking what the size was. In an accident situation anything not secured is liable to bounce anywhere. I guess it might also fit in the center armrest? Either way I just can't picture using the headrest to break the window. Not saying it's not possible, just seems very awkward. I agree that it's hard enough to get the job done, but getting it loose might be a problem and it won't cut the seatbelt if lord forbid that became an issue.

[ChitownM3]

The car was a 2007 Corvette.

[ChitownM3]

[positiveions]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

. THE LOCKS ARE ELECTRONIC, ALWAYS.

This is F/Ued but true. My GF has been pissed at me several times because she couldn't get out of the front passenger seat after I got out. I told her to pull the handle twice the first couple of times this happened. Now I know it to be a flaw in BMW's design.

E46 M3s were also known to have this problem where the second pull of the door handle would not unlock the driver's side door.

Joe, that is the same on the E46 330 ZHP. People will be trying to leave my car, and they couldn't. SOOOO, i got into the habit of unlocking the doors from the "UNLOCK" button. That way they don't feel as if I am trapping their ass inside.

[positiveions]

Originally Posted by ChitownM3

i was trying to distinguish the type of car from the first photo u posted. Until you mentioned it. What went wrong? Do you know?

[ChitownM3]

We are pretty sure the clutch exploded, and some of the shrapnel must have hit a fuel line, causing the fire. It started with a HUGE explosion with the windshield cracking and metal pieces flying around, then a small fire started and as you can tell by the pics, the small fire got big.

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

DO NOT BELIEVE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING THE DOOR PULL MECHANICALLY UNLOCKS THE DOOR. THE LOCKS ARE ELECTRONIC, ALWAYS.

This is F/Ued but true. My GF has been pissed at me several times because she couldn't get out of the front passenger seat after I got out. I told her to pull the handle twice the first couple of times this happened. Now I know it to be a flaw in BMW's design.

E46 M3s were also known to have this problem where the second pull of the door handle would not unlock the driver's side door.

Everyone should be aware of how they would get out of every car if the door won't open for any reason in an emergency.

Joe, maybe I'm not following what you are saying. Sounds like you are saying that your girlfriend cannot exit your car from the passenger seat unless you use the unlock button, either on the FOB or console. Is this correct?

I know some earlier model BMW's had issues like this but I just locked my daughter in my 2009 M3 and she was able to exit from the passenger seat by simply pulling the handle twice.

Sorry to the OP for jacking your thread. Glad you and your buddy are OK!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ChitownM3

We are pretty sure the clutch exploded, and some of the shrapnel must have hit a fuel line, causing the fire. It started with a HUGE explosion with the windshield cracking and metal pieces flying around, then a small fire started and as you can tell by the pics, the small fire got big.

Wow.

Relatively stock car, or highly modified? For obvious reasons, you can PM that answer.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

- If you want to use the headrests as a tool, think again. Have you ever tried to remove one? I'd say there's no way you can remove one while seated, but give it a try. It takes significant force to remove since the last tab doesn't clear the button's release, so you have to overcome it by force. PLUS rear seats have to be folded to the front in order for the headrests to clear the ceiling, and you can only release seats from the trunk . Similarly, the front headrests would need the seat backs to be significantly reclined backward to clear ceiling as well, and that required power operation of the seats.

Plus, I believe the '09+ 3-series cars have "active" headrests. Are they able to be removed at all without tools?

Originally Posted by elp_jc

- Finally, a question more than a comment. I know BMW ASSIST is supposed to pop the locks open, turn lights on, and call 911 if airbags are deployed, but how about in case of a fire?

I don't think it's BMW ASSIST that does this. All BMWs in a crash will unlock the doors if it detect the crash (a la airbags for example). If you have ASSIST this fact will be sent to BMW when it does happen. I would guess this doesn't happen with a car fire.

I will be unhooking the battery in a couple of weeks to do some mods. I'll check the doors then, if I remember to. I always thought that the first pull on the handle unlocked the door mechanically. But, maybe not.


Cheers.

[Small Yellow]

Mb has a pull tab. Bmw tab are hidden. Audi... Has a flashing red light haha

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by HuangYiChao

Mb has a pull tab. Bmw tab are hidden.

Hmm, good point though. I wonder if you replaced the factory door look button (i.e. what you are calling a "pull tab") with a taller one that you could grip onto when the door is locked, would that then work as a fail-safe unlock? For that matter is that thing genuinely a mechanical button to begin with (i.e does it attach directly to the locking mechanism)? And if it is, does it at least work as a lock button? I don't know that I've ever actually tried to press it down.

[Radiation Joe]

UPDATE:

I tested my car this morning and the door pull does mechanically lift the lock pin. However, I know that my GF has been locked in on more than one occasion. So my only conclusion is that the mechanical unlock can be electronically disabled. WTF?

I'll test this again tonight by having someone get in the car, then lock it from outside using the remote. We'll see if that person is locked in or not.

[Radiation Joe]

Update #2

1. Put GF in car.
2. Locked car using key fob from outside.
3. GF pulled handle 47 times ... no exit.
4. GF pushed unlock button on dash.
5. GF exits and tells me to stop conducting stupid tests.

Conclusion is that there are some situations where a passenger cannot exit the car. So this is an anti-theft "feature". I'm sorry, but let the thieves have it. I want to know there is a mechanical connection ALWAYS between the door handle and the latch.

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Update #2

1. Put GF in car.
2. Locked car using key fob from outside.
3. GF pulled handle 47 times ... no exit.
4. GF pushed unlock button on dash.
5. GF exits and tells me to stop conducting stupid tests.

Conclusion is that there are some situations where a passenger cannot exit the car. So this is an anti-theft "feature". I'm sorry, but let the thieves have it. I want to know there is a mechanical connection ALWAYS between the door handle and the latch.

Joe, do you have comfort access? I ran the exact same test with my daughter in the car (locked her in 2009 e92 using remote) and she pulled the handle and exited the car from the passenger side no problem.

No idea if comfort access actually plays any role in this, but this disparity is rather alarming.

Any possible reason that DCT would be different from 6MT, or e90 from e92?

[ersin]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Update #2

1. Put GF in car.
2. Locked car using key fob from outside.
3. GF pulled handle 47 times ... no exit.
4. GF pushed unlock button on dash.
5. GF exits and tells me to stop conducting stupid tests.

Conclusion is that there are some situations where a passenger cannot exit the car. So this is an anti-theft "feature". I'm sorry, but let the thieves have it. I want to know there is a mechanical connection ALWAYS between the door handle and the latch.

My update:

1. Put daughter in car.
2. Locked car using key fob from outside.
3. Daughter pulled handle 47 times ... no exit.
4. Daughter pushed unlock button on dash.
5. Daughter exits.
6. Put son in car.
7. Locked car using key fob from outside.
8. Son pulled handle 2 times.
9. Son exits.

Just to be sure I tried another experiment:

1. Put wife in car.
2. Locked car using key fob from outside.
3. Wife pulled handle 47 times ... no exit.
4. Wife pushed unlock button on dash.
5. Wife exits. Still hasn't shut up about me conducting stupid tests.

Conclusion is ... I'll let you fill in the blanks. j/k

Seriously, I tried this with the same results. It seems that if you lock the doors with your remote then you cannot open the door from inside by pulling the handle. The little knob will come up but the door will not open or unlock. Works for both doors. Pushing the unlock button will unlock it.

FWIW, I have a '08 E92 with NO comfort access.


Cheers.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ersin

The little knob will come up but the door will not open or unlock.

So much for my idea above then.

I guess that's that. There's no pure-mechanical way to unlock the door in all situations.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

So much for my idea above then.

I guess that's that. There's no pure-mechanical way to unlock the door in all situations.

Sadly, it sounds that way. However, this only happens when the car is locked via the key remote. Generally, if you're in an accident the car would not have been locked from the remote and you should be ok.

I think we need more testing. That is, lock doors (in several different ways) and unhook battery. You'd have to be in the car after it was locked to do this so maybe fold the rear seats down first and crawl into the trunk to unhook the battery.

Cheers.

[cgalford]

I don't know if E9Xs have it but in previous models they had double locking (turn key in door past normal lock) which was like dead bolting the door and could not be opened by pulling the knob up or the handle. I would image that new ones have this built in in some fashion where when you lock it with the fob (want to secure the car) then pulling the handle won't work so someone can't break your window and open the door from the inside. The locking the car does when underway is more as a safety precaution and not the same.

No ones ever had problem getting out of my car, either double pulling or just holding down the start button to turn everything off unlocks the car but I bought mine with a bypass module

[Chill72]

Pressing the door button 4 times will result in this...1 unlock, 2 lock, 3 unlock, 4 lock. So you had to press one more time to unlock.