Canadians buying used M3s from the States..?

[airwave808]

Originally Posted by Lefort

Hey guys.. new to the forums. Tried the search function but couldn't come up with what I was looking for.

I'm in the market for buying my first M3.. namely a used '09 executive convertible package type thing.. and it's hard not to notice the ~$10,000-$15,000 price difference from autotrader.ca and autotrader.com. (I'm in Toronto.)

Is it possible to buy used from the States paying that specific State's sales tax, have it shipped up, paying any fees/duties/etc at the border, then pay the Canadian sales tax (HST), and wind up paying a significant amount less for your efforts?

I did find this thread http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566552 mentioning that dealers don't seem to be able to sell new M3s to Canadians.. is that also the case with used?

Thanks in advance for any help, it's much appreciated.

Dealers can sell it to you or I would suggest buying from an individual owner. Car is under warranty anyways. Just make sure you have all the facts and calculations done up front and pain of temporary registering the car in the U.S. first.

[kasimmmmm]

^airwave - very true... i negotiate like crazy... if you do it right you can get an awesome deal locally.

[Reflections]

The pricing of an M3 is crazy here! I know I can pick them up in the low 40s where I have family. There might be some worries if its private party, but dealers frequently sell to Canadians now and the existing warranty is retained.

PS: Only way to not pay state tax is have family or friend with a dealer licence. Dealer to dealer sales are tax free, and they could pass the tax savings to you. Beware at the border, prepare to pay tax on blackbook value rather than purchase value- although you sometimes get lucky.

[exmowner]

Hi just a quick FYI. I've imported 2 e46 M3's, 1 z4m CP along with my sisters x5 and my new to me M3 e90. You gUys have to remember one thing if your buying used why wouldn't you want a car that drove on roads better then your own and that had not seen winter. (southern states)? I'm selling my e90 M3 with every option and I don't think I'll loose out.

[Meff]

It's funny how people against importing have no experience actually doing it, and rely on pure conjecture for their reasoning.

Not only did I save about $15k after all taxes and fees and get exactly what I wanted, the comparison is against a car that did not even exist. I simply could not find the car I wanted in Canada as I looked for a while before deciding to import from the US, and very glad I did.

BMW Dealers and their sales people don't want US cars in this market and their voices may be some of the ones in this thread providing misleading information against it.

I did not see one post in this thread from those who have imported recommending not doing so, only those who have not and have no direct experience with it. Not surprising as there is no shortage of members on here who post on topics they know nothing about.

[GMW]

Originally Posted by Meff

It's funny how people against importing have no experience actually doing it, and rely on pure conjecture for their reasoning.

Not only did I save about $15k after all taxes and fees and get exactly what I wanted, the comparison is against a car that did not even exist. I simply could not find the car I wanted in Canada as I looked for a while before deciding to import from the US, and very glad I did.

BMW Dealers and their sales people don't want US cars in this market and their voices may be some of the ones in this thread providing misleading information against it.

I did not see one post in this thread from those who have imported recommending not doing so, only those who have not and have no direct experience with it. Not surprising as there is no shortage of members on here who post on topics they know nothing about.

+1

[airwave808]

Originally Posted by Meff

It's funny how people against importing have no experience actually doing it, and rely on pure conjecture for their reasoning.

Not only did I save about $15k after all taxes and fees and get exactly what I wanted, the comparison is against a car that did not even exist. I simply could not find the car I wanted in Canada as I looked for a while before deciding to import from the US, and very glad I did.

BMW Dealers and their sales people don't want US cars in this market and their voices may be some of the ones in this thread providing misleading information against it.

I did not see one post in this thread from those who have imported recommending not doing so, only those who have not and have no direct experience with it. Not surprising as there is no shortage of members on here who post on topics they know nothing about.

Meff,

I am not sure where you got the idea that I am against importing. I imported two cars last year as I used to live in the U.S. before. If you can't find a car in Canada, obviously the only option is to import. My comment was meant in general to OP to make sure he has all facts on the table before importing. The actual importation process is a breeze but I owned both cars prior to importing.

[Meff]

Originally Posted by airwave808

Meff,

I am not sure where you got the idea that I am against importing. I imported two cars last year as I used to live in the U.S. before. If you can't find a car in Canada, obviously the only option is to import. My comment was meant in general to OP to make sure he has all facts on the table before importing. The actual importation process is a breeze but I owned both cars prior to importing.

I was not commenting on your post, but some others in the first couple of pages.

I and others know how much we saved by importing, yet they say they don't believe it. Others have sold US cars at CDN market price, yet they say they don't believe it.

There are a few posters who are clearly using what they "think" is the case, instead of listening to those of us who have actually done it, and "know"

The OP can take the advice of whichever group he chooses.

[kasimmmmm]

^You don't have to have 'experience' to conclude that a certain decision is not a good idea.
my friend sold his 06 US 350z only 3k more than I sold my 03 350z... Search autotrader and you'll find the cheapest M3 is US. These resales may have happened couple of years ago when the dollar was not on par and was an excuse for Canadian retailers to charge canadiens more, but not today.
Gmw/exmowner, both you guys are from provinces with only 5% interest rate and we have 13%. To pay an additional 7% or so brings it to 20% in total over the US m3 price.
Exmowner, would you have honestly imported if the price of your imported M3 was 10% more? Its a significant difference. Keep in mind the question is about a USED vehicle not new. GMW purchased it brand new and at a 5% rate plus the 6.1% which is completely worth it.
In terms of brand new vehicles and if you have hard cash, I completely agree that it's better to purchase the car from down south, especially if your province only has a 5% rate, unlike our province which has a 13% rate (more than twice).

[GMW]

Dude
I'm paying %15 HST

PLEASE READ ENTIRE THREAD B4 comments like that

And I financed 1/2 my car at bank. Where the hell did cold hard cash come from? Who said that?

This is starting to give me a headache. Haha

[JulieDriving]

I'm a little confused about the 5% tax vs. 13-15% tax stuff.

Here's how I understand it:

• Regardless where I live, I have to pay the federal and provincial tax.
  
• If I buy new in Canada, I have to pay those taxes.
  
• If I import, I have to pay those same taxes. However, I also have to pay an additional 6.1% import duty.
  
• So, even though Albertans are lucky because they pass less tax, it shouldn't mean they have an advantage over Ontarians or other Canadians due to importing, right? They would have paid less tax if they bought it in Canada too.
  

So, the effective difference between a Canadian and a US purchase is the 6.1% import duty. Am I wrong?

[sawzall]

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

I'm a little confused about the 5% tax vs. 13-15% tax stuff.

Here's how I understand it:

• Regardless where I live, I have to pay the federal and provincial tax.
  
• If I buy new in Canada, I have to pay those taxes.
  
• If I import, I have to pay those same taxes. However, I also have to pay an additional 6.1% import duty.
  
• So, even though Albertans are lucky because they pass less tax, it shouldn't mean they have an advantage over Ontarians or other Canadians due to importing, right? They would have paid less tax if they bought it in Canada too.
  

So, the effective difference between a Canadian and a US purchase is the 6.1% import duty. Am I wrong?

You understand everything fairly well.

1. If you import a car from the US, you will be responsible for duties of 6.1% on foreign vehicles (anything not made in US or Canada), plus GST and PST (or HST). Alberta does not have PST, so you would only pay GST. Albertans are lucky in general, they don't have any PST whatsoever (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_Canada).

Don't worry about this 5% vs. 13-15%. Just think about the effective taxes. As a resident of Ontario, you will effectively pay 19.1% in duties and taxes which is broken down into 6.1% duties + 13% HST (before this would have been 5% GST + 8% PST).

GMW is paying 15% HST because he lives in Nova Scotia, where they have 15% HST (i.e. 5% GST + 10% PST)

2. If you buy a new car in Canada, you will pay taxes based on the province you reside in (so HST - 13% in Ontario). There are no duties payable on new vehicles purchased in Canada, as they are already built into the price of the car.

3. If you live in Ontario, you will pay HST on any car you purchase, used, new or imported. Remember, HST is applicable on the sale price (or listed value, whichever is higher) of the car. Just remember, the higher the price of the car, the more HST you will pay.

[Meff]

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

^You don't have to have 'experience' to conclude that a certain decision is not a good idea.
my friend sold his 06 US 350z only 3k more than I sold my 03 350z... Search autotrader and you'll find the cheapest M3 is US. These resales may have happened couple of years ago when the dollar was not on par and was an excuse for Canadian retailers to charge canadiens more, but not today.
Gmw/exmowner, both you guys are from provinces with only 5% interest rate and we have 13%. To pay an additional 7% or so brings it to 20% in total over the US m3 price.
Exmowner, would you have honestly imported if the price of your imported M3 was 10% more? Its a significant difference. Keep in mind the question is about a USED vehicle not new. GMW purchased it brand new and at a 5% rate plus the 6.1% which is completely worth it.
In terms of brand new vehicles and if you have hard cash, I completely agree that it's better to purchase the car from down south, especially if your province only has a 5% rate, unlike our province which has a 13% rate (more than twice).

You are wrong on pretty much everything in this post and are misinforming the community. You should not be advising anyone on their decision to possibly import a vehicle.

You are correct on not needing 'experience' to make a decision, and apparently you don't think you need 'facts' or a 'grounding in reality' either.

If you insist, I will rebut each statement you have made, but it would be a lot easier for me to just tell everyone else to ignore your posts.

Less work for me....

[Meff]

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

I'm a little confused about the 5% tax vs. 13-15% tax stuff.

Here's how I understand it:

• Regardless where I live, I have to pay the federal and provincial tax.
  
• If I buy new in Canada, I have to pay those taxes.
  
• If I import, I have to pay those same taxes. However, I also have to pay an additional 6.1% import duty.
  
• So, even though Albertans are lucky because they pass less tax, it shouldn't mean they have an advantage over Ontarians or other Canadians due to importing, right? They would have paid less tax if they bought it in Canada too.
  

So, the effective difference between a Canadian and a US purchase is the 6.1% import duty. Am I wrong?

Shizzle's post is spot on

Just take the US purchase price at CDN exchange and add 6.1% then add your applicable provincial taxes + about $500 for inspection and RIV and any freight costs to get it here.

[JulieDriving]

shizzle, Meff, GMW, airwave808,

Thank-you, thank-you!

[kasimmmmm]

Originally Posted by Meff

You are wrong on pretty much everything in this post and are misinforming the community. You should not be advising anyone on their decision to possibly import a vehicle.

You are correct on not needing 'experience' to make a decision, and apparently you don't think you need 'facts' or a 'grounding in reality' either.

If you insist, I will rebut each statement you have made, but it would be a lot easier for me to just tell everyone else to ignore your posts.

Less work for me....

Meff, I can do the same in regards to how you tend to get your panties in a bunch when people don't agree with you but you've done that already through your statements from the beginning. You're being a little dramatic, don't you think?
When OP is asking about importing an 09 M3 from the US, you keep going on about how you saved 15K on your 2011... figure the rest out yourself.
I even said I'd personally buy from the US if I was buying a brand new vehicle like some of you guys did, so chill... I bringing in a 997 GT3 myself.

Originally Posted by GMW

Dude
I'm paying %15 HST
PLEASE READ ENTIRE THREAD B4 comments like that
And I financed 1/2 my car at bank. Where the hell did cold hard cash come from? Who said that?
This is starting to give me a headache. Haha

Ah my apologies! Clearly I did not read that post of yours... my sincere apologies sir. But in terms of cash, I'm simply saying that you cannot finance/lease from US, you basically have to come up with hard cash to purchase a car from the US (even if it means getting a loan from your bank, as you did).

[gthal]

Originally Posted by shizzle

+1. I think the US car having lower resale value is a dealer propagated myth. When I offered to trade in my car, the dealer gave me a value $5000 less than the Canadian car value. But within a month, I sold my car privately to another who was actually shopping for a car with the same features as mine, and was also looking in the US. In the end, I sold it at a price in line with Canadian cars. It is all about finding the right buyer for your car - if you've got in demand features, it won't make a difference whether it is US or not.

I don't think it is a myth IF you are trading in at the dealer. Most dealers will give you grief and offer a lower trade value on US cars. As you point out, though, you can sell privately. The issue is if you don't like the idea of having to deal with a private sale later... in that case, the US car would be a PITA and the resale would have to be taken into account in the decision to import.

[kasimmmmm]

Resale examples:

US car in Ontario being sold by a dealership, I think its easily 10% cheaper even before negotiations and sits on autotrader as the cheapest E90/E92 M3 in the market (Ontario).
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/BMW/M/TOR...1113113204381/

Here's a 2004 Gallardo, US car for only 89K.
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehi...AdIdZ302013722

[Meff]

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

Meff, I can do the same in regards to how you tend to get your panties in a bunch when people don't agree with you but you've done that already through your statements from the beginning. You're being a little dramatic, don't you think?

I'm not being dramatic, no. Just get frustrated when people spout off on here when they know nothing about the topic

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

When OP is asking about importing an 09 M3 from the US, you keep going on about how you saved 15K on your 2011... figure the rest out yourself.

I stated my savings in one post. An '09 is no different as a percentage of purchase price against a CDN car than my '11

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

I even said I'd personally buy from the US if I was buying a brand new vehicle like some of you guys did, so chill... I bringing in a 997 GT3 myself.

Again - you are really misinformed. You can't buy a new M3 from the US, only one that has been previously registered in the US.

I'm not trying to be a dick here guy, but people are looking for real advice on here about a potentially large purchase, and they don't need posts from guys like you who do not know what they are talking about - plain and simple - no drama, no yelling, just the facts.

Enjoy your GT3 - please post here about your importing experience

[kasimmmmm]

you knwo what the funny thing is... you seem just as misinformed to me as I seem misinformed to you, but i'm not being rude about it, though I can be.
You are blinded by your experience and your purchase to the point that you're throwing a hissy fit when someone doesn't see eye to eye with you. You are also very quick to undermine others.

Originally Posted by Meff

An '09 is no different as a percentage of purchase price against a CDN car than my '11

huh? an 09 is no different as a % of purchase price against a canadian car than my 2011... ok

Originally Posted by Meff

Again - you are really misinformed. You can't buy a new M3 from the US, only one that has been previously registered in the US.

Getting all technical to prove your point, except there are dealerships in the US willing to work with you to sell you a brand new or close to brand new vehicle. This is a complete different topic but you can call Bryan at Braman BMW in Florida if you're looking for a brand new BMW.

Originally Posted by Meff

I'm not trying to be a dick here guy

=)

[GMW]

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

Meff, I can do the same in regards to how you tend to get your panties in a bunch when people don't agree with you but you've done that already through your statements from the beginning. You're being a little dramatic, don't you think?
When OP is asking about importing an 09 M3 from the US, you keep going on about how you saved 15K on your 2011... figure the rest out yourself.
I even said I'd personally buy from the US if I was buying a brand new vehicle like some of you guys did, so chill... I bringing in a 997 GT3 myself.



Ah my apologies! Clearly I did not read that post of yours... my sincere apologies sir. But in terms of cash, I'm simply saying that you cannot finance/lease from US, you basically have to come up with hard cash to purchase a car from the US (even if it means getting a loan from your bank, as you did).

I'm happy you admit being WRONG for one of your previous comments. You've made several incorrect statements which everyone has read. I think you've said enough without having the facts. I'd love to hear about your experience regarding your GT3 (in another thread). Should you have any further questions regarding my particular experience, PM me. This thread has been polluted with several tangents.

Bottom line Kasim. You have taken away from the OP's intent here (ie. he's not looking for an 04 Gallardo for $89k)

[Meff]

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

you knwo what the funny thing is... you seem just as misinformed to me as I seem misinformed to you

No, you seem misinformed to everybody who has experience on this topic, believe me

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

You are blinded by your experience and your purchase to the point that you're throwing a hissy fit when someone doesn't see eye to eye with you. You are also very quick to undermine others.

If by undermining you mean correcting false statements in this thread than I am guilty. How can one be blinded by reality by the way ? Point out one false statement I have made in this thread.

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

Getting all technical to prove your point

By 'technical' - do you mean using actual facts to explain things?

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

except there are dealerships in the US willing to work with you to sell you a brand new or close to brand new vehicle.

There are not US dealerships that will sell you a new M3 to import to Canada, period. They can't do it, they will sell you an 'almost new' one yes, this is otherwise known as a used car as long as it has been previously registered in the US

Originally Posted by kasimmmmm

This is a complete different topic but you can call Bryan at Braman BMW in Florida if you're looking for a brand new BMW.

Have Bryan at Braman BMW ask his sales manager if he can export a new car to Canada - the answer is no. I ran in to sales guys that thought they could do it as well until they looked in to it.


And to GMW's point - I have also derailed this thread and my apologies go to the OP for this, just frustrated with the bullshit being spewed here