2011 ZCP M3 clicking noise

[kpneverdies]

funny thing is, how come this only happens after the 1,200 miles service?

[M3Pilot09]

They had my car for a week and the problem was supposed to be resolved. After a few days of driving it the noise came back but was very faint. At that point I decided I was done with M3's until the next generation. I am now rolling around an X5 M Sport and it does not click

97 M3
98 M3
01 M3
02 M3
03 M3
04 M3
06 M3
06 M5
06 M6
08 M3 E90 6 MT
11 M3 E92 ZCP DCT

[piloto]

In cases where they are replacing just the crankshaft and main bearings, is their argument or claim that the pistons, piston rings, and cylinder walls have not incurred any damage? If the tolerance between the crank and main bearings are excessively large, it would create some lateral load on the piston, pistons rings, and cylinder wall. If it's the opposite and the crank binds on a section of the main bearing, then it can cause scoring of the cylinder walls. Either way, I don't see how such a problem can just be contained to the crankshaft, crankshaft bearings, and main bearings.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

That sucks. I never would trust any dealer to do that. Not when this is BMW's problem. They should have just replaced the engine. Save the hassle and any form off unnecessary problems while tearing the engine down.

Hard to disagree, but I've already called BMWNA and told them I'm gonna demand an extended warranty. They sound pretty receptive. If they eff it up, I'm going to pursue the lemon law thing. Either way, I think I have some leverage on this one.

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Please ask to see the crank and original bearings.

It would be really great if you could get some pictures of the crank journals and bearing shells. If this noise is indeed noise from a crank or rod bearing(s), wear on the bearings and journals would be very apparent.

I will do that.

Originally Posted by piloto

In cases where they are replacing just the crankshaft and main bearings, is their argument or claim that the pistons, piston rings, and cylinder walls have not incurred any damage? If the tolaerance between the crank and main bearings are excessively large, it woulf create some lateral load on the piston, pistons rings, and cylinder wall. If it's the opposite and the crank binds on a section of the main bearing, then it can cause scoring of the cylinder walls. Either way, I don't see how such a problem can just be contained to the crankshaft, crankshaft bearings, and main bearings.

Again, can't really disagree, but at this point, I'm thinking I'm in a win-win. Either I get a free extended warranty (I think I'll push for extended service too), or I get a new car. I don't see a real downside at this point, other than the fact that I've been driving a 335 for the last month.

[BMRLVR]

One thing is for sure, if you get the car back and it still has a clicking noise you know that it wasn't from the crankshaft/bearings. At this point I would run the car as is because it is probably just valve train noise and totally acceptable. High revving/hi-performance engines are generally more mechanically noisy than lower revving mass produced engines.

[farbarg]

Good thread on an unfortunate topic. I really hope you guys get your cars sorted. I definitely had the same noise (random, 1.5-3k rpm, engine warm) but it still seems to be gone. jdgamble, please let us know if your car makes the same noise after bearing replacement.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

One thing is for sure, if you get the car back and it still has a clicking noise you know that it wasn't from the crankshaft/bearings. At this point I would run the car as is because it is probably just valve train noise and totally acceptable. High revving/hi-performance engines are generally more mechanically noisy than lower revving mass produced engines.

Valvetrain noise comes from the heads, not the oil pan. They put the car on a lift and listened with a stethoscope. The noise is coming from the bottom end... which is why they are replacing the crank and bearings.

Originally Posted by farbarg

Good thread on an unfortunate topic. I really hope you guys get your cars sorted. I definitely had the same noise (random, 1.5-3k rpm, engine warm) but it still seems to be gone. jdgamble, please let us know if your car makes the same noise after bearing replacement.

I will definitely update this thread when I get my car back.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Valvetrain noise comes from the heads, not the oil pan. They put the car on a lift and listened with a stethoscope. The noise is coming from the bottom end... which is why they are replacing the crank and bearings.



I will definitely update this thread when I get my car back.

Noises are very hard to pinpoint on an engine, even with an automotive stethoscope. Noises resonate through the entire engine since everything is bolted solidly together. Believe me, I have tried to pinpoint the origin of knocking noises from many engines over my career and they are never easy to find. Sometimes they are right under your nose and you don't even realize it. One other thing to consider is that with a large sump capacity like the S65 has, the sound from the main bearings would be muffled quite a bit by the oil in the pan since there is still about 4-6 litres still in the pan with the engine running...... this oil would be directly under the crank making it hard to hear bearing noises from directly underneath.

No offence to your dealer but I don't agree with doing a crank and bearings in a car without first removing the crank and inspecting the parts. You never change parts without first determining the problem or you never really know what the issue was. Some less qualified mechanics prefer to throw parts at something until it is fixed rather than properly troubleshooting the issue. Replacing failed parts with the same parts usually results in another failure unless the cause is determined and rectified.

You see if there is indeed an issue and the noise is coming from the bearings replacing the crank and bearings will most likely not cure the issue. The cause of bearing/crank journal noise is more than likely due to some other reason like metal to metal contact due to boundary lubrication or an improperly machined block. If the oil pump output is not adequate it would cause boundary lubrication and metal on metal contact would be the cause of your problems, the crank and rods would not solve the issue in this case. If the main bearing bores were not bored straight and true in your block the crank would not turn true and this would also cause problems that would not be fixed by replacing crank and bearings. An unlikely possibility is that your crank was improperly machined or is not properly balanced in which case the crank and bearings may solve your lssue.

The main thing that would alarm me about replacing the crank in your engine is that the crank, rods and pistons are most likely balanced as a set. By changing only the crank and leaving the pistons and rods your rotating assembly may not be perfectly balanced anymore..... Not a good thing on an engine that spins 8400RPM.

The main reason I don't think this is a bearing issue is because bearings usually deteriorate in a hurry and are accompanied by loss of oil pressure and the noise a failing bearing makes is unmistakable.

I hope that I am wrong and that your issues are resolved with the new crank and bearings but I am not optimistic for you. Changing the crank and bearings in the S65 with the 1 piece bedplate is not going to be easy. In most engines with individual main caps you can roll the bearings in one at a time but this won't be the case here. The procedure may involve engine removal in which case I don't understand why they don't just replace the engine.

There is indeed a change-up in the crank and main bearing part numbers after 10/08

Crank with bearing shells up to 10/08: 11217841658
Crank with bearing shells 10/08 on: 11210443639

There is no new number for 2011 cars..... The same parts are in all cars from 10/08 and on, leading one to believe there is no major issue with the crank and bearings in the S65 since there haven't been a large number of failures in 4 model years. By the way the change up in part numbers don't necessarily mean there was an issue with parts before 10/08, the new part number could have just been a supplier change.

I hope everything works out for you, Please keep us posted.

[jdgamble]

^ I agree on certain points, but note that kouhii had his bearings replaced and hasn't had a problem since. Regarding balancing, I do not believe BMW balances the pistons, rods and crank together... based on what I have seen from videos of the manufacturing process, they grab pre-machined pistons out of a set. The first time the pistons, rods and crank meet is in the block. After that, there is no machining. Either way, this decision came from BMW engineering, not a rookie mechanic. They've had a lot of people look at this car. That being said, BMW does have a tendency to throw parts at cars (see HPFP).

But that's not really why I wanted to update this post. My SA called and said BMW approved an extended warranty. Actually, even better, they are just going to cut me a check for $5100, which is the price of a 6/100 Gold. It's also over 8% of the price of the car, which officially makes my M3 less expensive than the moderately optioned S4 I was originally going to buy. Pretty good deal if it works when I get it back. I'm hoping for the best.

[BMRLVR]

As for the balanced rotating assemblies..... I don't know if they indeed do it I was just stating they may. They could easily mark the sets for a certain crank and engine once they are balanced, but that is just speculation.

Having the extended warranty is a big plus for you and for resale. Good luck and I hope everything works out for you and the M is back to like new condition soon.

[derric]

Hmm, I have the exact same problem on my 09 m3 with 7K miles. Odd though I notice it a lot more when moving not so much if I rev the motor in neutral. Reversing into my garage seems to produce the sounds as well, and mine also only does it when warm.

[half man half amazin]

Had my 1200 mile service done and as soon as I got home in the garage I heard the dreaded clicking!!!!!!!! I'm 100% positive it was NOT doing that before the service, as I read this thread months before I even got my M and listened for it daily. Sigh. 1300 miles and here we go.

[gemini330zhp]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Wow thats a terrible sound!!! Sounds like a bad valve??

[gemini330zhp]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

I jost posted on your new thread. It sounds AWFUL. Worst I've ever heard by far. The good news is you're not going to hear 'we can't duplicate your problem' crap . I don't remember you posting this before, but maybe I'm wrong. I asked you on your new thread about more details. Will check this thread for that. Curious about miles, when you started hearing this, and if it coincided with an oil change or something. Unbelievable. It's ridiculous this is happening to new cars. All of a sudden I feel lucky to have an '08 .

EDIT: Just read this thread and you started it too, but you just posted the video. When did you start hearing this noise? After the 1,200-mile service? Please give us more details on your new thread.

After reading this thread my 08 sounds smooth !!!!

[MRSSIIM3]

hey lodaka any update?

[radiantm3]

Looks like I might have this issue too. I have about 14,000 miles on my 2011.5 and just started to hear random ticking sounds coming from the engine bay. Seem to only hear it when my engine is fully warmed up and at low speeds.

Here's a link to an mp3 of the sound: http://d.pr/RZXz

[Bananas92]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Looks like I might have this issue too. I have about 14,000 miles on my 2011.5 and just started to hear random ticking sounds coming from the engine bay. Seem to only hear it when my engine is fully warmed up and at low speeds.

Here's a link to an mp3 of the sound: http://d.pr/RZXz

Sounds like the ac condensation dripping on the exhaust. It's not going clicking with the revs. You might want to see if it does it without turning on the ac the whole time.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Bananas92

Sounds like the ac condensation dripping on the exhaust. It's not going clicking with the revs. You might want to see if it does it without turning on the ac the whole time.

My AC isn't on. It's off 99% of the time as I always drive with my windows down. It clicks only when the car is on, completely warmed up and from idle to about 2-3k rpms.

[derric]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Looks like I might have this issue too. I have about 14,000 miles on my 2011.5 and just started to hear random ticking sounds coming from the engine bay. Seem to only hear it when my engine is fully warmed up and at low speeds.

Here's a link to an mp3 of the sound: http://d.pr/RZXz

Mine made that sound every so often however it is somewhat more rythmic then the traditional clicking. Either way my crank and main bearings have been replaces and so far no sound just had the 1200 re break in so hopefully it's gone for good.

[Bananas92]

My AC isn't on. It's off 99% of the time as I always drive with my windows down. It clicks only when the car is on, completely warmed up and from idle to about 2-3k rpms.

That's weird, definitely take it in if you can recreate the noise in front of them.

[radiantm3]

Had the dealership tech do a quick listen inspection and he quickly confirmed that it's probably the bearings. He said he's already had a few cars with this issue and have had them fixed. Told me I'd have to schedule my car in and they'd have BMW engineers come in as well.

[Bananas92]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Had the dealership tech do a quick listen inspection and he quickly confirmed that it's probably the bearings. He said he's already had a few cars with this issue and have had them fixed. Told me I'd have to schedule my car in and they'd have BMW engineers come in as well.

That is good news. I listened to it and I think my car might be making a similar noise, though alot less frequent. I will probably wait till its more audible to take it in. :/