Rotating tires on square setup?

[Sleeper519]

Sorry if this is a naive question but that's how I learn...

I'm thinking of going with a square setup for dedicated track days (Arc-8 x 10" + 275/35/18). I know one advantage is the ability to rotate tires and extend wear. Currently I'm wearing out the front outsides of my PS2s--duh--(I'll be adding GC camber plates also).

So, one just rotates front to back when the wear gets bad? Maybe halfway thru life of tires? Or more frequently? I presume the rears aren't going to suffer as much from the worn outside shoulder? I understand the fronts are more important in turn-in, but just seems like you're robbing Peter to pay Paul...

I'm still considering a staggered setup but have been curious about the practicality of square rotation.

Thanks for your patient responses.

[von_zoom]

I cannot speak to all tires, however, I run BFG R1s 275/35/18 and change mine around in no particular order (but concentrate on front to back) every other time I change over to track tires. The only thing I have to change is tire pressure.
vz

[THE TECH]

I'd do the square for sure. Normally you would rotate so they wear evenly.

[OC3]

I posted a thread w/ same topic 'til I noticed this one, so deleted the content.

Anyhow, I'll just post it here:

What's the recommended pattern/direction for rotating square setup?

Swap left & right?
Swap front & back?
Rotate? (CW or CCW, looking at the car from above)
Diagonal?

Or, keep'em at each corners and just flip'em inside/outside?

Or, combination(s) thereof?

275/35/18 R-S3 & Apex ARC-8, in case it matters.

[VSmotorsports]

Originally Posted by OC3

I posted a thread w/ same topic 'til I noticed this one, so deleted the content.

Anyhow, I'll just post it here:

What's the recommended pattern/direction for rotating square setup?

Swap left & right?
Swap front & back?
Rotate? (CW or CCW, looking at the car from above)
Diagonal?

Or, keep'em at each corners and just flip'em inside/outside?

Or, combination(s) thereof?

275/35/18 R-S3 & Apex ARC-8, in case it matters.

It really depends on what track and how the tires are wearing.

For example if you are at Road America which has about 9 right handed turns and 5 left handed. Since there are so many right hand turns the outside left will tend to wear more than the right side. So it is a good idea to switch sides on this track (left to right). Plus with long right hand turns like the carrousel there it can be really tough on the left side.

[bigjae1976]

I just look at the tires. I usually try to put the tires with the best outer shoulder on the front...that's where I get the most wear at the track.

Sometimes, I will have to flip 1-2 tires.

[Sleeper519]

Appreciate the replies guys. makes sense. My home track is Road Atlanta and its hell on the left front tire.

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by VSmotorsports

It really depends on what track and how the tires are wearing.

For example if you are at Road America which has about 9 right handed turns and 5 left handed. Since there are so many right hand turns the outside left will tend to wear more than the right side. So it is a good idea to switch sides on this track (left to right). Plus with long right hand turns like the carrousel there it can be really tough on the left side.

This is definitely the key. My closest track, Lime Rock, has six right-hand turns and one left-hand turn (called "The Lefthander"). So in that case, again, it's rotating to keep the left front tire fresh.

[ring007]

most tracks run clockwise which wears the driver side front more than others. I generally run the best tire on the front left and swap fronts to maximize wear on shoulder, by then all four are usually corded. If you have tread and heat cycles left your could also rotate front to rear.

[von_zoom]

by then all four are usually corded.

How many sessions do you get before cording? And, how many heat cycles do you run them before you notice loss of traction?

I have never corded a tire. And I can reasonably expect 20 - 25 heat cycles before serious loss of traction. After 25 cycles, it may take a couple of laps to get them to stick but they can still be used and relied upon, however even with rubber remaining, performance has fallenl off. I rotate them each HPDE event, and replace them after 20 cycles.

Thanks
vz

[Richard@M-World]

Originally Posted by VSmotorsports

It really depends on what track and how the tires are wearing.

For example if you are at Road America which has about 9 right handed turns and 5 left handed. Since there are so many right hand turns the outside left will tend to wear more than the right side. So it is a good idea to switch sides on this track (left to right). Plus with long right hand turns like the carrousel there it can be really tough on the left side.

+1

Key is to understand and monitor how your tires are wearing at the current track based on your current set up. Race teams typically mark each tire so that they can keep track of where it's been used for how many laps/sessions. Then, based on your understanding of wear, you can rotate your tires accordingly. Typically I would place the most worn tire in the least worn corner.

If your car is a daily driver (moderate negative camber), your fronts will most likely wear out more aggressively compared to the rear. If you drive on a track which is fairly left/right turn balanced, you can simply swap front and rear. If you drive on a predominantly left or right turn track, you could probably do a diagonal swap.

[Sleeper519]

I'm going to jack my own thread for a minute...

I've been looking at R-comp tires for this planned square setup and noticed some have a uni-directional tread pattern (ie) Toyo proxes R888, for one. Can those type tires be left/right rotated?

Also, the ones I wanted to get (Nitto NT-01) have an asymmetric tread pattern (not uni-directional). Is this an issue with front/back/left/right rotation? I wouldn't think so because a lot of people already do it. I just wanted to clarify that before I purchace.

Thanks again, all.

[paradocs98]

The Nitto NT01s can be rotated all around the car because of the asymmetric, but non-directional tread design. The only thing that matters is outside vs inside when mounting to the wheels. Makes it easier to keep that left front fresh.