CF backing plates, Apex inlets, ST60 cooling set-up done.

NRBRNG · 02-12-2012, 07:07 PM

Update after first track session:
Oregon in February: 34 degrees, snow flurries, rain... We had it all. Consequently, it was road tires all day (Conti DW) and standard stoptech pads up front-not the Cobalts. I did run Cobalts in the rear on OEM calipers to help the bias which worked incredibly well. I have to say the DW's were fantastic in the cold and wet conditions. Very impressed.
Back to the brakes...Out of 5 sessions i was lucky to get 2 dry ones towards the end of the day and really get on the brakes as normal (to extent the DW's would let me). Performance was very good, good initial bite, zero fade. Best of all- MUCH cooler after sessions. Not a very scientific gauge...but just standing next to the fronts i could feel very normal heat radiating, whereas the rears were their usual furnace heat and pinging for several minutes. I will know more when the same Cobalts are front and rear and also test with heat paint.
All hoses, flanges and backing plates held up perfectly thus far.
Happy so far. Next day is March 10th. By then it should be 75 and sunny...

OK. First phase of the winter project finished and ready to test at Portland Int Raceway at the end of the month (Son of Quattrofest... Yes! RS4's...)

I have needed a solution for overheating brakes for a while now. I previously ran stock with Cobalt XR2 pads. No problems with fade, bite was great and stopping power was fantastic... just tons of heat that ultimately shortened pad life (1-2 days max).
ST60's were the stoppers chosen and I decided to do everything at once with the ducting set-up. The work was completed by our outstanding local shop run by Eddie Nakato- AR Auto Service in Lake Oswego, Oregon.
Bimmerworld CF backing plates ($398) http://store.bimmerworld.com/carbon-...tes-p1412.aspx
Apex inlets ($200), some ducting (not much).
The cost of molding and amortizing it is clearly tough with these prices, but hey if they get the job done, it's less than the cost of two sets of pads...

CF plates: Well, they are light and CF, but the fit definately needed some work...lots of grinding and sanding around the outside in order to fit. But fit they do. We are not sure how long they will last without some reinforcement around the pipe area that exits to the ducting though...
The Apex inlets look good, good molding, nice and stealthy tucked away, but at $200 clearly the tooling costs outweigh the material costs but that is totally normal these days. Ducting fits great to these inlets.

I am running the Stoptech street perf pads on the road and for the track Cobalt XR2's that are available for the ST60's. This combo should stop a bus.
Can't wait!

Cheers, Mark

bigjae1976 · 02-12-2012, 07:12 PM

Nice! Any pics of how you routed the duct from the flanges through the engine cover?

klammer · 02-12-2012, 07:28 PM

That looks real nice, well done, thanks for sharing.

SchnellM3 · 02-12-2012, 08:02 PM

How often does one need to replace the hoses, Do they last a couple weekends or a season?

mastek · 02-12-2012, 08:45 PM

That seems like too many turns and twists for effective direct airflow.
Have you taken this to a track where you had overheat issues to see if it solves the problem?

bigjae1976 · 02-13-2012, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastek

That seems like too many turns and twists for effective direct airflow.
Have you taken this to a track where you had overheat issues to see if it solves the problem?

I'd take anything at this point. Even if it was a trickle of air.

klammer · 02-13-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I'd take anything at this point. Even if it was a trickle of air.

Agreed.

quads · 02-13-2012, 09:49 AM

also keep in mind that as the rotors spin, it's creating a fan/vacuum effect where it's pulling air from the center. So airflow is not just dependent on front air pressure from the opening in the duct.

One thing to keep in mind - if it's a dual purpose car and you're driving in very cold temps you may want to tape up the ducts when not at track.

When I was doing one lap at daytona, at the end of the oval going 150mph the brakes would cool off enough so that I'd have to apply the brakes a little to warm them back up to get the pads to bite hard

Erhan · 02-13-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastek

That seems like too many turns and twists for effective direct airflow.
Have you taken this to a track where you had overheat issues to see if it solves the problem?

+1. From what I understand, he got the BBK and the ducting at the same time, so it won't be easy to tell if the ducting is working well.

OP: Just an idea (may not be a good one): Instead of routing the ducting behind and top of that bar in pic 2, why not route through the bottom of it, and then tie it to the bar? Also, is there any other material that is less flexible than the one you're using?

THE TECH · 02-13-2012, 11:40 AM

Nice.

zsapphire7 · 02-13-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erhanh

+1. From what I understand, he got the BBK and the ducting at the same time, so it won't be easy to tell if the ducting is working well.

OP: Just an idea (may not be a good one): Instead of routing the ducting behind and top of that bar in pic 2, why not route through the bottom of it, and then tie it to the bar? Also, is there any other material that is less flexible than the one you're using?

OP can just tape off the duct run it hard. then repeat with the tape gone to determine the difference

Erhan · 02-13-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zsapphire7

OP can just tape off the duct run it hard. then repeat with the tape gone to determine the difference

d'oh.. yes

NRBRNG · 02-13-2012, 07:53 PM

Thanks for the thoughts and comments. All are good.
The pic of the ducting that looks too bent is actually not that bad. There's really hardly any compression. We looked at various routing options-including the many already tried on this forum-and this was by far the best. Putting it underneath likely gets in the way of that big round black thing!

It's a process right?..look for solutions, try them, adapt them.

I'll know more in a few weeks!

Cheers.

klammer · 02-13-2012, 08:22 PM

Good work. Keep us posted...

mastek · 02-13-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I'd take anything at this point. Even if it was a trickle of air.

true dat

Gearhead999s · 02-14-2012, 07:46 AM

Use the Heat sensitive paint on the rotors & temp stickers on your calipers to determine what temperature you are operating at.This way you can determine how effective your cooling ducts are.Anything else is guesswork.

http://www.apracing.com/info/info.as...emperatures_44

Richbot · 02-14-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Use the Heat sensitive paint on the rotors & temp stickers on your calipers to determine what tempatures you are operating at.This way you can determine how effective your cooling ducts are.Anything else is guesswork.

http://www.apracing.com/info/info.as...emperatures_44

+1.

NRBRNG · 02-15-2012, 11:53 PM

Great call on the heat paint guys. thanks. I have seen this used before but never used it myself so far.
Time to try the science route...

Kurt_OH · 02-10-2013, 04:58 PM

Found some heat paint on Amazon.com. $80 for one ounce! Ouch, didn't see that coming.

02-12-2012, 07:07 PM	#1
NRBRNG Lieutenant 227 Rep 447 Posts Drives: '09 E92, SG & '89 635 CSi Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: OREGON, USA iTrader: (11)	CF backing plates, Apex inlets, ST60 cooling set-up done. Update after first track session: Oregon in February: 34 degrees, snow flurries, rain... We had it all. Consequently, it was road tires all day (Conti DW) and standard stoptech pads up front-not the Cobalts. I did run Cobalts in the rear on OEM calipers to help the bias which worked incredibly well. I have to say the DW's were fantastic in the cold and wet conditions. Very impressed. Back to the brakes...Out of 5 sessions i was lucky to get 2 dry ones towards the end of the day and really get on the brakes as normal (to extent the DW's would let me). Performance was very good, good initial bite, zero fade. Best of all- MUCH cooler after sessions. Not a very scientific gauge...but just standing next to the fronts i could feel very normal heat radiating, whereas the rears were their usual furnace heat and pinging for several minutes. I will know more when the same Cobalts are front and rear and also test with heat paint. All hoses, flanges and backing plates held up perfectly thus far. Happy so far. Next day is March 10th. By then it should be 75 and sunny... OK. First phase of the winter project finished and ready to test at Portland Int Raceway at the end of the month (Son of Quattrofest... Yes! RS4's...) I have needed a solution for overheating brakes for a while now. I previously ran stock with Cobalt XR2 pads. No problems with fade, bite was great and stopping power was fantastic... just tons of heat that ultimately shortened pad life (1-2 days max). ST60's were the stoppers chosen and I decided to do everything at once with the ducting set-up. The work was completed by our outstanding local shop run by Eddie Nakato- AR Auto Service in Lake Oswego, Oregon. Bimmerworld CF backing plates ($398) http://store.bimmerworld.com/carbon-...tes-p1412.aspx Apex inlets ($200), some ducting (not much). The cost of molding and amortizing it is clearly tough with these prices, but hey if they get the job done, it's less than the cost of two sets of pads... CF plates: Well, they are light and CF, but the fit definately needed some work...lots of grinding and sanding around the outside in order to fit. But fit they do. We are not sure how long they will last without some reinforcement around the pipe area that exits to the ducting though... The Apex inlets look good, good molding, nice and stealthy tucked away, but at $200 clearly the tooling costs outweigh the material costs but that is totally normal these days. Ducting fits great to these inlets. I am running the Stoptech street perf pads on the road and for the track Cobalt XR2's that are available for the ST60's. This combo should stop a bus. Can't wait! Cheers, Mark Attached Images __________________ DCT. Custom Cantrell MS cage. Fire, SCCA, dedicated track. Diffs-online 3.62, diff cooler, MCS 2-ways, SPL arms, TMS solid SF/Diff bushings, RD sway, DO88 Coolers (DCT, RAD, PS, OIL) Akra catless GT4, BPM tune, Hans Recaro, AP Pro 5000R, Cobalt XR2/4 race pads, BBS E88's, Yoko A005 slicks, RKP GT4 Splitter, GT4 canards, APR GT250 Wing, CFK Hood, Flossman CFK fenders, BW carbon doors, Dinan R toe links, Mini battery. Last edited by NRBRNG; 03-02-2012 at 10:02 AM.. Reason: update
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02-12-2012, 07:12 PM	#2
bigjae1976 Major General 1570 Rep 8,075 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (22) Garage List 2004 BMW M3 [4.50] 2011 BMW E90 M3 [5.25] 2013 BMW 328i [5.00]	Nice! Any pics of how you routed the duct from the flanges through the engine cover? __________________ 2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red 2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
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02-12-2012, 07:28 PM	#3
klammer Brigadier General 97 Rep 3,246 Posts Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 19 X5 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago iTrader: (0)	That looks real nice, well done, thanks for sharing. __________________ mods: track ready stuff
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02-12-2012, 08:02 PM	#4
SchnellM3 Digger 205 Rep 2,619 Posts Drives: 03 E46 M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pa iTrader: (5) Garage List 2003 BMW E46 M3 Tra ... [8.00] 2009 BMW E92 M3 [8.30] 2009 Yamaha R1 (FOR ... [9.50]	How often does one need to replace the hoses, Do they last a couple weekends or a season? __________________ 2009 E92 M3 /// Melbourne Red /// Fox Red /// M DKG Full Innotech Exhaust - DINAN Intake - IND Engine Bay Appearance - IND Hand Stitched Boot Covers - and much more....
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02-12-2012, 08:45 PM	#5
mastek e36s54, e70x5d 151 Rep 1,723 Posts Drives: slow Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (15)	That seems like too many turns and twists for effective direct airflow. Have you taken this to a track where you had overheat issues to see if it solves the problem?
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02-13-2012, 09:49 AM	#8
quads Lieutenant Colonel 70 Rep 1,672 Posts Drives: bac mono Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: racetrack iTrader: (3)	also keep in mind that as the rotors spin, it's creating a fan/vacuum effect where it's pulling air from the center. So airflow is not just dependent on front air pressure from the opening in the duct. One thing to keep in mind - if it's a dual purpose car and you're driving in very cold temps you may want to tape up the ducts when not at track. When I was doing one lap at daytona, at the end of the oval going 150mph the brakes would cool off enough so that I'd have to apply the brakes a little to warm them back up to get the pads to bite hard
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02-13-2012, 11:40 AM	#10
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02-13-2012, 07:53 PM	#13
NRBRNG Lieutenant 227 Rep 447 Posts Drives: '09 E92, SG & '89 635 CSi Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: OREGON, USA iTrader: (11)	Thanks for the thoughts and comments. All are good. The pic of the ducting that looks too bent is actually not that bad. There's really hardly any compression. We looked at various routing options-including the many already tried on this forum-and this was by far the best. Putting it underneath likely gets in the way of that big round black thing! It's a process right?..look for solutions, try them, adapt them. I'll know more in a few weeks! Cheers. __________________ DCT. Custom Cantrell MS cage. Fire, SCCA, dedicated track. Diffs-online 3.62, diff cooler, MCS 2-ways, SPL arms, TMS solid SF/Diff bushings, RD sway, DO88 Coolers (DCT, RAD, PS, OIL) Akra catless GT4, BPM tune, Hans Recaro, AP Pro 5000R, Cobalt XR2/4 race pads, BBS E88's, Yoko A005 slicks, RKP GT4 Splitter, GT4 canards, APR GT250 Wing, CFK Hood, Flossman CFK fenders, BW carbon doors, Dinan R toe links, Mini battery.
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02-13-2012, 08:22 PM	#14
klammer Brigadier General 97 Rep 3,246 Posts Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 19 X5 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: chicago iTrader: (0)	Good work. Keep us posted... __________________ mods: track ready stuff
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02-14-2012, 07:46 AM	#16
Gearhead999s Major General 814 Rep 7,888 Posts Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M2C R1200GS Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Use the Heat sensitive paint on the rotors & temp stickers on your calipers to determine what temperature you are operating at.This way you can determine how effective your cooling ducts are.Anything else is guesswork. http://www.apracing.com/info/info.as...emperatures_44 Last edited by Gearhead999s; 02-14-2012 at 09:19 AM..
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02-15-2012, 11:53 PM	#18
NRBRNG Lieutenant 227 Rep 447 Posts Drives: '09 E92, SG & '89 635 CSi Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: OREGON, USA iTrader: (11)	Great call on the heat paint guys. thanks. I have seen this used before but never used it myself so far. Time to try the science route... __________________ DCT. Custom Cantrell MS cage. Fire, SCCA, dedicated track. Diffs-online 3.62, diff cooler, MCS 2-ways, SPL arms, TMS solid SF/Diff bushings, RD sway, DO88 Coolers (DCT, RAD, PS, OIL) Akra catless GT4, BPM tune, Hans Recaro, AP Pro 5000R, Cobalt XR2/4 race pads, BBS E88's, Yoko A005 slicks, RKP GT4 Splitter, GT4 canards, APR GT250 Wing, CFK Hood, Flossman CFK fenders, BW carbon doors, Dinan R toe links, Mini battery.
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02-10-2013, 04:58 PM	#19
Kurt_OH Captain 12 Rep 734 Posts Drives: E90 M3 ZCP Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus, OH iTrader: (0)	Found some heat paint on Amazon.com. $80 for one ounce! Ouch, didn't see that coming. __________________ ... a glorious V8 that screamed and hollered as the revs rose and then howled in an orgy of what sounded like BDSM ecstasy as it neared the red line. Well, you can forget all that. The new car is fitted with a turbocharged straight six. Turbocharging? In an M car? That’s like putting gravy on an ice cream. - Jeremy Clarkson, discussing the S65 and then S55 M3 engines.
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