ZSG availability

[SCOTT26]

The problem with the manual M5 gearbox is because it is straight out of the 550i it is not attuned to the M5 it was a quick fix in order to please the American market .

Whilst the next M3 has a manual gearbox that has not been transplanted but developed from the conception.
The next M5 will also follow this route as will the next M6 and offer stand alone gearboxes rather than from it's regular 5er and 6er Coupe line.

Some members of the BMW board are quite furious on why they had to bow to demand and introduce the M5 manual which does nothing to better the current cars SMG but blemish the M5's mark free copybook .

As the M5 is marketed in Europe as being borne from BMW's F1 programme there is no plans to offer a manual gearbox in Europe . As BMW M Gmbh boss argued against the decison for a manual gearbox in the first place simply because it didnt need one.

US introduction is said to be in spring '08.

I just spoke to someone before we head in for our M3 marketing meeting this morning.
European sales from September and US/Asia sales Spring -Summer 2008.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I just spoke to someone before we head in for our M3 marketing meeting this morning.
European sales from September and US/Asia sales Spring -Summer 2008.

are you saying DSG might not be available in the states until SUMMER 2008? so as late as AUGUST? why would DSG be available later in the states than in Europe. Once the technology is ready for mass production, what incentive could BMW possibly have to not immediately release that technology for worldwide delivery?

[m_bazeepaymon]

i guess we have a year to go

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by RandyB

Just curious - how can you sleep with an inbound GT3?

The trick is not to think about it right before bed! Ship supposed to be in port in San Diego 3/30

So... no cars in the US til Spring of '08.... ? How am I going to live without a V8 til then? This is gonna be tough. As much as I like my M Coupe, the 3.2l i6 doesn't really do it for me. I know, I'm odd.

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

The trick is not to think about it right before bed! Ship supposed to be in port in San Diego 3/30

So... no cars in the US til Spring of '08.... ? How am I going to live without a V8 til then? This is gonna be tough. As much as I like my M Coupe, the 3.2l i6 doesn't really do it for me. I know, I'm odd.

Not odd at all. I have a Roush supercharged '06 Mustang GT (installed by me with some GT500 bits strewn about) for my V8 fix until it's M-time. It's about to get pullied, Bilsteined, and Brembo-ed if I can ever get away from work. I have H&R springs, 19s w/BFG KDWs, etc. But it's still a Mustang... If I'm honest, my 3-series is still more fun to drive as far as dynamics are concerned.



Back to topic.

[porsche951]

First I am new to M3Post but I thought I put my 2 cents worth in to the ring.
I have always thought of the M3 as a driver’s car. Plus since it looks like in my lifetime Porsche will not bring back a front engine car. I'll go for a M3. Drivers are not point A to point B people, Drivers want to experience the car and receive most out of driving it. That means manual, no fancy automatic. I don't want the car driving me; I want to drive the car. Manual always!!!

[M3]

I knew about it long time ago

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43947

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

The trick is not to think about it right before bed! Ship supposed to be in port in San Diego 3/30

So... no cars in the US til Spring of '08.... ? How am I going to live without a V8 til then? This is gonna be tough. As much as I like my M Coupe, the 3.2l i6 doesn't really do it for me. I know, I'm odd.

Well, you really have 3.249 liters, if it makes you feel any better!

[e36jakeo]

Hmmm . . . 8 speed DSG?

In support of that, if BMW is going through the trouble of designing a DSG type gearbox for a high revving V8, why wouldn't they try for an 8 speed?

Plus they need to match the Lexus 8-speed auto in the IS-F

If it is 8 speeds DSG I will wait for it over the 6-speed manual. It will have a significant performance advantage just because of gearing.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by porsche951

I don't want the car driving me; I want to drive the car. Manual always!!!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The problem with the manual M5 gearbox is because it is straight out of the 550i it is not attuned to the M5 it was a quick fix in order to please the American market .

Whilst the next M3 has a manual gearbox that has not been transplanted but developed from the conception.
The next M5 will also follow this route as will the next M6 and offer stand alone gearboxes rather than from it's regular 5er and 6er Coupe line.

Some members of the BMW board are quite furious on why they had to bow to demand and introduce the M5 manual which does nothing to better the current cars SMG but blemish the M5's mark free copybook .

As the M5 is marketed in Europe as being borne from BMW's F1 programme there is no plans to offer a manual gearbox in Europe . As BMW M Gmbh boss argued against the decison for a manual gearbox in the first place simply because it didnt need one.



I just spoke to someone before we head in for our M3 marketing meeting this morning.
European sales from September and US/Asia sales Spring -Summer 2008.

i would have thought this post would have garnered more attention. did anyone READ it?

[m_bazeepaymon]

Originally Posted by esquire

i would have thought this post would have garnered more attention. did anyone READ it?

lol a tear ran down my cheek wen i read it

1 year to go? any1?
(united states delivery)

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

Hmmm . . . 8 speed DSG?

In support of that, if BMW is going through the trouble of designing a DSG type gearbox for a high revving V8, why wouldn't they try for an 8 speed?

Plus they need to match the Lexus 8-speed auto in the IS-F

If it is 8 speeds DSG I will wait for it over the 6-speed manual. It will have a significant performance advantage just because of gearing.

At what point is there too many gear choices. Is an 8 speed really needed with a torquey V-8? I suppose it's a trade off of added weight vs increased performance resulting from the added gear choices. Personnally it seems like 8 speeds is over doing it, but then again I've never driven an 8 speed car.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by skierman64

At what point is there too many gear choices. Is an 8 speed really needed with a torquey V-8? I suppose it's a trade off of added weight vs increased performance resulting from the added gear choices. Personnally it seems like 8 speeds is over doing it, but then again I've never driven an 8 speed car.

Despite the M3 being a V8 it'll hardly be a torque monster. With an 8ms gear shift (practically non-existent delay) and an 8250 rpm redline, I suspect an 8 sp may be warranted. If you can keep the engine entirely in its sweet spot from 0-190 mph 8 speeds may indeed make a faster car. I also bet that the automatic modes for the ZSG will be pretty killer (they might make many of us faster drivers as well...). I do see your point though as I currently drive a 5 MT so even having 7 seems like a lot of gears.

[skierman64]

A buddy of mine did the 6 speed conversion on his E36. However the first 5 gear ratios are the same as stock, he only really added an additional overdrive gear for better mileage.

[swamp2]

From Scott, talking about the CSL family on that thread.

"The M6 CSL Concept car will also showcase the introduction of the ZSG Gearbox."

So what does this mean for the availability of ZSG on the M3? Perhaps there is still a chance to see it on the M3, maybe in Frankfurt, maybe in model year 2008, maybe 2009, maybe never. Hopefully if there are not plans to produce it with ZSG we will at least get SMG from the start. I certainly won´t buy without SMG or DSG.

Scott??

BTW - I´m sure it is BMW policy not to reveal any information ahead of official info. that might cause someone to delay a purchase.... oh well, time will tell

[devo]

Originally Posted by RandyB

Seriously, is there anyone on this board besides myself that wants a true manual tranny?

I do, but seven gears better suited for the M3's powerband is hard to deny. I'd choose a stick over SMG any day; ZSG, that's in a different league.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by swamp2

From Scott, talking about the CSL family on that thread.

"The M6 CSL Concept car will also showcase the introduction of the ZSG Gearbox."

So what does this mean for the availability of ZSG on the M3? Perhaps there is still a chance to see it on the M3, maybe in Frankfurt, maybe in model year 2008, maybe 2009, maybe never. Hopefully if there are not plans to produce it with ZSG we will at least get SMG from the start. I certainly won´t buy without SMG or DSG.

Scott??

BTW - I´m sure it is BMW policy not to reveal any information ahead of official info. that might cause someone to delay a purchase.... oh well, time will tell

From another BMW source, the M6 CSL will be introduced at the Frankfurt show in September with the ZSG.

I don't think this means anything for the M3 other than BMW wants to launch their newest tranny on the M6 CSL flagship.

Also, with the M6 rumored to get just 50 hp more, weigh 80kg less, no AC, race seats, no rear seats, no central storage, leather etc... BMW will need something like the ZSG / DCT to justify the price (rumored to be the same as the M6 cab).

Also the M6 CSL will have a 7 speed tranny and the M3 a 6 speed. I am curious to see if BMW has made custom transmissions or if they have glommed on a control unit to a manual but based on Scott26's feedback below about the BMW board being angry, I am betting the BMW engineers did the right thing and built a sequential transmission from the ground up.