MT's New Take on the E9x M3

[IzzyGray]

Originally Posted by Koldun

... or put a blower on it. They could do the latter (and reinforce rod bearings and whatever else to make it maintain and handle boost better), which would give them tons more power, but makes fuel economy even worse. They can't put out a 12mpg car anymore.

I installed a supercharger recently and my mpg went up according to the cluster. In suburbia Wisconsin, I was averaging 18.2mpg. And now I'm showing 21.5mpg. And frankly I thought I'm pushing the vehicle more to stretch the SC legs.
-shrugs-

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by ADM5

This is an ad from BMW AG. Not BMW ///M. Slightly different, or did I miss something?

You got me, the F80/82 doesnt have an in line 6 BMW engine.

And driving pleasure is less important with the ///M division.

[W///]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You got me, the F80/82 doesnt have an in line 6 BMW engine.

And driving pleasure is less important with the ///M division.

That engine in the ad is an M20. So that ad was possibly from late 80s, very early 90s. Do you know how much has changed in 20 years? Just saying.

How would you know that driving pleasure is not there with the M3/4? Who here has driven it? I wouldn't mind if later on when people test drive them and are disappointed. But the reviews are barely out yet!

This is exactly what happened when the E92 was released as a concept. Oh it's just a big lazy, heavy V8 tank they said. It won't be fun they said.

Give me a break.

[dparm]

ITT: everyone shits bricks because one automotive journalist didn't fall in love with the E9x M3

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by W///

This is exactly what happened when the E92 was released as a concept. Oh it's just a big lazy, heavy V8 tank they said. It won't be fun they said.

Give me a break.

History repeats, especially on message boards in modern times.

Owners of new cars will of course defend them since they just sunk a bunch money into it, or perhaps the impossible is true in that the newer model is actually a decent product. Owners of the prior generation will defend their cars and look for every possible reason to denigrate the new model.

I suppose most of this comes from a small minority or at least the 80/20 rule would apply.

Having been around every BMW transition, they are all filled with strong opinions, sometimes based in facts but most often emotionally driven. One of the most brutal was the 2002 to E21 320i transition where essentially all of the 02 guys complaining about the "new car" had: springs, shocks, sway bars, wider wheels, headers, Weber carb if not dual Weber sidedrafts, 300 degree cam, etc...then they would attack the new 320i for being soft, rolling a lot in corners and being slow.

The 5-series E12 transition was pretty brutal too as BMWNA chose to offer the new E28 only as the 528e in the first model year (1982). The comparisons to the high revving E12 528i to the 40+hp less low-revving 528e were brutal and deserved. BMWNA rectified that the following model year with the 533i.

Whatever transition number this one is will be no different in terms of the Internet I suppose, but at least today the newer models kick-tail pretty well with each new generation.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by W///

That engine in the ad is an M20. So that ad was possibly from late 80s, very early 90s. Do you know how much has changed in 20 years? Just saying.

How would you know that driving pleasure is not there with the M3/4? Who here has driven it? I wouldn't mind if later on when people test drive them and are disappointed. But the reviews are barely out yet!

This is exactly what happened when the E92 was released as a concept. Oh it's just a big lazy, heavy V8 tank they said. It won't be fun they said.

Give me a break.

Some things will never change, a high revving NA V8 engine will always be more pleasurable than a turbo engine to me. I hate those pshh, pshh sound, turbo muffled engine sound and the high pitch turbo whine at high rpm when an inline 6 is choking on the tiny twin turbos.

What's next a front wheel drive M3, M4 or whatever the marketing department wants to call it?
Another thing they were against...

[W///]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Some things will never change, a high revving NA V8 engine will always be more pleasurable than a turbo engine to me. I hate those pshh, pshh sound, turbo muffled engine sound and the high pitch turbo whine at high rpm when an inline 6 is choking on the tiny twin turbos.

What's next a front wheel drive M3, M4 or whatever the marketing department wants to call it?
Another thing they were against...

Just read what CSBM5 said right before you, he said it perfectly. When the E9x M3 was launched, you'll look back and see when people said "Oh I prefer I6 over V8 all day. BMW went V8 because they want to copy AMG". This is no different.

Porsche builds diesels and Ferraris no longer available with manual transmission, do you see how times have changed? Hope that puts it in perspective for you.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by GVFlyer

The N55 3.0 liter I-6 in the 335i/435i also produces 295 ft. lbs torque which the factory rounds up to 300 because they like the sound of 300/300. It has always fascinated me that the same journalists who call that engine in the 335i "torquey", refer to the S65 motor in the E9X M3 as "torqueless."

Well sadly the 335i puts about 280-290 TQ to the wheels while M3 is about 250-260 wtq. But I agree, I never thought my M3 lacked torque when driven correctly.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

So how did he like the E9x back in the day? I didn't care about M3s when it came out. But in the notes I saw he was kind of bagging on it.

Chris Harris liked the E92 M3 so much that he owned one himself for little while. Here is the 2 part video of his first drive of the car in 2007:

[GVIFlyer]

This comment from Road & Track's first drive of the 2015 M3/M4 pretty much characterizes what I've been reading in the automotive press, the journalists have been damning the motor by faint praise - acknowledging its power, but citing its lack of the excitement factor.

With so much new tech, BMW had so many opportunities to drop the ball with this new M3 and M4, but it seems like they’ve nailed every aspect—well, nearly every aspect. For all its newfound punch and the massive difference that makes to the car’s real-world performance, I’m not convinced by this engine. Sure, it pulls hard right 'round to 7500 rpm—big speeds for a turbo engine—but it somehow never feels that exciting. There’s never any real encouragement to chase the limiter, and when it comes to the soundtrack, while there’s plenty of volume (some of it amplified through the speakers), it’s a case of quantity over quality. It sounds more like a tuned diesel engine than the heart of a pedigreed motorsport product.

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by GVFlyer

Call me sentimental, but I'm still a big fan of the E46 330i ZHP coupe.

Beautiful car. My ideal M3 is an E46 CSL with an S65 (or S85?!?) tossed in.

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by W///

Not sure why we need all the oh it's got active sound (who gives a damn), or the E9x has no torque (got to be in the right gear idiot). Both parties are guilty as far as I'm concerned

End rant.

FYI, I love my E92 to death. I enjoyed the living crap out of it last weekend. But I'd love to try an F80 myself before I say it has "uninspiring electric steering".

My beef with active sound is that it is purely artificial; if you're going to do that, I want to be able to select different sound options so I can sound like a McLaren or a Prius as the situation calls for.

Other than that, I agree, both camps are silly and they are very different cars, although I don't begrudge those who feel M has diluted their mission statement. I want to have both! And one of each of the previous ones.

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Well sadly the 335i puts about 280-290 TQ to the wheels while M3 is about 250-260 wtq. But I agree, I never thought my M3 lacked torque when driven correctly.

Crank torque is meaningless without considering gearing. The M3 puts more force down than the 335i in every gear at any rpm above ~2000.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Koldun

My beef with active sound is that it is purely artificial; if you're going to do that, I want to be able to select different sound options so I can sound like a McLaren or a Prius as the situation calls for.

Other than that, I agree, both camps are silly and they are very different cars, although I don't begrudge those who feel M has diluted their mission statement. I want to have both! And one of each of the previous ones.

Let me put it this way. If no one told you that there was sound being artificially pumped through speakers, and you couldn't tell, then what's the problem? I certainly couldn't tell when I drove a new M6. Everyone makes it want to seem like 50% of the exhaust sound is coming through the speakers and that's not the case, know what I mean? What if it's more like 5%? We spend all this time talking about it for something that really just isn't a huge deal IMO.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by W///

Let me put it this way. If no one told you that there was sound being artificially pumped through speakers, and you couldn't tell, then what's the problem? I certainly couldn't tell when I drove a new M6. Everyone makes it want to seem like 50% of the exhaust sound is coming through the speakers and that's not the case, know what I mean? What if it's more like 5%? We spend all this time talking about it for something that really just isn't a huge deal IMO.

...and even if it does profoundly bother someone, at least on the F10 M5 it's a very simple matter to disable it.

[Vic311]

Originally Posted by dparm

ITT: everyone shits bricks because one automotive journalist didn't fall in love with the E9x M3

Welcome to M3post

[M4Trojan]

Originally Posted by W///

Let me put it this way. If no one told you that there was sound being artificially pumped through speakers, and you couldn't tell, then what's the problem? I certainly couldn't tell when I drove a new M6. Everyone makes it want to seem like 50% of the exhaust sound is coming through the speakers and that's not the case, know what I mean? What if it's more like 5%? We spend all this time talking about it for something that really just isn't a huge deal IMO.

Exactly

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by W///

Let me put it this way. If no one told you that there was sound being artificially pumped through speakers, and you couldn't tell, then what's the problem? I certainly couldn't tell when I drove a new M6. Everyone makes it want to seem like 50% of the exhaust sound is coming through the speakers and that's not the case, know what I mean? What if it's more like 5%? We spend all this time talking about it for something that really just isn't a huge deal IMO.

From reviewers, that is not the case. All too many are calling it electronic, fake, tuned diesel, etc. one even said it sounds like a weird V8 when everyone outside gets a proper i6 roar. Remains to be seen once I get my hands on one, but I'm not expecting much, and would have that coded out. I like things I ride not to be faking their screams.

[quiksi]

Originally Posted by dparm

ITT: everyone shits bricks because one automotive journalist didn't fall in love with the E9x M3

it's a nice change from the usual DCT vs. MT threads

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by dparm

ITT: everyone shits bricks because one automotive journalist didn't fall in love with the E9x M3

I kind of expected it

[V8FunNaturally]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Exactly....

+6

Originally Posted by yoelev

sure it won't sound anything like the e9x

Why speak in the future, that's a present reality.

SHRIMP BOAT idling sound

If it has to be a turbo at least give me a GT-R sound ! If I absolutely had to have a turbo car ( i don't) then i'd pick a used '11 or '12 GT-R over an Ecoturbo M4.

Originally Posted by yoelev

and will be less unique,

You got that right. I lost count of how many bmw models now have a inline 6 turbo engine. There are only 2 BMW engines that are NA V8 4.0 liters. and the second one is a race car ( 2014 m4 DTM engine).

Originally Posted by yoelev

but it's still going to be underpriced for what you get.

Wrong ! 6 cyl turbo engines are much cheaper to manufacture than a high revving NA V8 (can't wait to see the part prices on getbmwoemparts) . By 2015 there will be more turbo 6 engines from other brands. The F8x S55 was developed after the 2008 economic crash when most car manufacturers took drastic cost reduction measures in the following years. Profit margin on the M4/M3 is probably much higher than on the V8 M3 which was developed at a time of economic opulence. Putting CF here and there feels like an attempt to justify the M price tag that the engine alone could not call for but it still looks cheaper IMO. The ceramic brakes are not even included in the base price. But the "active" audio is mandatory, go figure.

[GVIFlyer]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

+6


Why speak in the future, that's a present reality.

SHRIMP BOAT idling sound

If it has to be a turbo at least give me a GT-R sound ! If I absolutely had to have a turbo car ( i don't) then i'd pick a used '11 or '12 GT-R over an Ecoturbo M4.


You got that right. I lost count of how many bmw models now have a inline 6 turbo engine. There are only 2 BMW engines that are NA V8 4.0 liters. and the second one is a race car ( 2014 m4 DTM engine).



Wrong ! 6 cyl turbo engines are much cheaper to manufacture than a high revving NA V8 (can't wait to see the part prices on getbmwoemparts) . By 2015 there will be more turbo 6 engines from other brands. The F8x S55 was developed after the 2008 economic crash when most car manufacturers took drastic cost reduction measures in the following years. Profit margin on the M4/M3 is probably much higher than on the V8 M3 which was developed at a time of economic opulence. Putting CF here and there feels like an attempt to justify the M price tag that the engine alone could not call for but it still looks cheaper IMO. The ceramic brakes are not even included in the base price. But the "active" audio is mandatory, go figure.

Good call. What I've read suggests that the cost of manufacture for the S55 is ~$11,000; the cost of the S65 is near $25,000. Think BMW will give us a price break on the M4?