BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-27-2008, 07:04 PM   #67
Rennbahnmeister
Private
Rennbahnmeister's Avatar
Canada
1
Rep
80
Posts

Drives: E90 SG M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajminn View Post
lets not forget people that f1 cars of the 80s had turbos and still had 10k+ redlines. it's still possible for bmw to produce beautiful engines even if we have to go the FI route.
The only problem with those engines was that they were built to last 1 or 2 races only, which allowed the rpms to be so high. With a production vehicle there is no way it can translate without BMW taking serious losses on warranty claims. You also have to remember that most OEM FI setup's lose thier efficiency at higher rpms, so there would be no point to have a higher reving engine.
__________________
///M
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 07:17 PM   #68
ILLCOMM
Second Lieutenant
ILLCOMM's Avatar
28
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: GT2
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

FI = more efficient
FI = more power and torque
FI = cheaper
FI = lighter

Why all the hate?
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 07:38 PM   #69
Bobby_Light
Major
Bobby_Light's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
1,352
Posts

Drives: E36 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW View Post
BMW has officially fucked up. Way to pull a Mercedes.

Fuck. This pisses me off so much. This proves to me that no one can do anything right anymore. Fuck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinan_sleiman2006 View Post
Increasingly tough emission standards and soaring manufacturing costs have pushed BMW into the decision, which could alter the intrinsic character of all BMW M models.

The moves comes on the back of confirmation from AMG that it is planning to add turbocharging to its 6.2-litre V8 when it introduces direct injection in 2010.
Emission standards are getting more strict, costs are rising, and Mercedes reportedly intends to turbocharge their new V8s. Can't really blame them for this move. Sometimes change is good. Time will tell.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 07:42 PM   #70
Captain
United_States
37
Rep
977
Posts

Drives: 991TTs
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I don't really care if it's forced induction or not. As long as it's fast and fun to drive.
+1,000 and couldnt have said it any better.

we should spend less time worrying about turbos and what not and worry about how this car will perform. if it puts a smile on my face in the straights and twisties then BMW has done there job.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 07:43 PM   #71
MTV
Banned
Canada
239
Rep
1,906
Posts

Drives: E60 M5, Volvo S60R
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW View Post
BMW has officially fucked up. Way to pull a Mercedes.

Fuck. This pisses me off so much. This proves to me that no one can do anything right anymore. Fuck.
They fucked up??? Umm... no.

I'm 110% in favor of a TT V8 in the next M5 over the V10
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 07:59 PM   #72
MJC///M3
Colonel
MJC///M3's Avatar
United_States
87
Rep
2,324
Posts

Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bronx, NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
+1,000 and couldnt have said it any better.

we should spend less time worrying about turbos and what not and worry about how this car will perform. if it puts a smile on my face in the straights and twisties then BMW has done there job.
+1
__________________
"You will get there, but it is up to you and you alone. It is what you are willing to do, and how you are willing to get there. You must be relentless, you must be tireless, you must pursue at all costs, so that you are ready, when the time is right." -Dad
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 08:09 PM   #73
Ironring Racing
N54 FTW!
Ironring Racing's Avatar
Canada
25
Rep
389
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Calgary, Canada

iTrader: (3)

The one thing that they'll never be able to recreate with a turbo car, which is soooo sad, is the sound of a NA engine. At the track you listen to the 911 Turbo and it sounds like an angry vacuum cleaner.

I love my 335, have had a great summer making it even better, but coming from superbike racing I love a high revving engine. All the torque is great, better for the street I think, but a turbo will never have that great sound.

But with thier objectives of more power, less emissions, better efficiencies, it's not a surprise they've gone FI.

A friend bought an E90 M3 and I do feel for him. Great car, absolutely all good, but he wasn't aware of 1. A model refresh in 09, 2. New idrive in 09, 3. M-turbo direction. Collectibility aside, it's a lot of buyers remorse for something that's only 5 months old.

So looks like I6 TT in the 335, V8 TT in the M3. Might be a stupid question, but have they strapped any snails on the V10 yet?
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 08:15 PM   #74
LateBraking
Brigadier General
United_States
323
Rep
3,882
Posts

Drives: Relatively Quick.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: U.S.A.

iTrader: (27)



Oh well. At least I have my NA M.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 08:41 PM   #75
lib
Major
lib's Avatar
141
Rep
1,401
Posts

Drives: <This space for rent>
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ATX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinan_sleiman2006 View Post
Increasingly tough emission standards and soaring manufacturing costs have pushed BMW into the decision, which could alter the intrinsic character of all BMW M models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW View Post
BMW has officially fucked up. Way to pull a Mercedes.

Fuck. This pisses me off so much. This proves to me that no one can do anything right anymore. Fuck.
How has BMW fucked up? We and our representatives keep voting for ever tougher regulations - BMW is doing everything it can to provide the power you love while still being allowed to sell cars in this country.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 08:46 PM   #76
DougLikesBMW
Fapmin
DougLikesBMW's Avatar
399
Rep
2,660
Posts

Drives: '03 E46 330Ci
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Plano, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Sorry folks. I wasn't clear. I was solely talking about the fact that BMW is making ///M versions of their SUVs...like Mercedes. And the icing on the cake is that there is no CSL either. It's all I could think of when I was reading that article.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 08:49 PM   #77
NaTuReB0Y
Powered By 36DD
NaTuReB0Y's Avatar
United_States
337
Rep
7,369
Posts

Drives: 2006 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Inland Empire

iTrader: (12)

An inconvenient truth has spoken...............
__________________
2006 E90 330i Jet Black | 20" WORK VS-XX | FK452 | H&R Sport on Koni Yellow | REMUS QUAD
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 09:06 PM   #78
Ronin13
First Lieutenant
Ronin13's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
362
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, RRS Supercharged, S2K
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: STL, MO

iTrader: (0)

I'd like to think that ///M cars are about handling first, but I will definitely miss the high RPM NA engines.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 09:08 PM   #79
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Being the owner of a 135i, I can see why people like FI cars--it really is a fun car to drive. Faster, cheaper, easier to upgrade than an M3--not a bad deal.

That being said, I don't think that the M division is something that appeals to the masses anyway, so why change an old philosophy? You can go FI with other cars in your line, that's fine, but for the M division, I think staying NA is better.

For example, my dad has an '07 M Coupe--sure my car is faster than his in a straight line, but doesn't have 1/10 of the soul. It appears there will be no future M versions of the Z4, but you are going to have an M version of the X6? The X5? This makes no sense to me--you are going to have soccer moms driving MX6's and have no idea what M is supposed to mean.

To be honest, I think BMW took too big of a jump with the N54, and you can get M-like performance out of a 1 or 3 for a fraction of the cost of an M3. So they come out with a NA V8, which is a very nice engine, but is one that will still get burned by a 335 in a straight line on the street.

This appears to be another "we don't know where we are going" move from BMW. Sad to see.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 09:32 PM   #80
e46e92love
Brigadier General
e46e92love's Avatar
United_States
233
Rep
3,302
Posts

Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The East Side of Things

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal jet black View Post
i like high revving NA engines... perhaps its time to go to the GT3 route after this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeene View Post
Hold on to em, they will become classics like the last of the air cooled 911's. The new ones will do everything better but these will be the last of the breed and the ultimate expression of the M3 NA engines.
I can't agree more......this will be my first and unfortunately last //M. Had plenty of friends who could afford an //M before I could, hence why this will be my first one. I love my 335i but there is a totally different feel from a torquey lower revving turbo'd engine and a high revving NA V8. I am expecting my company to continue to grow, if it does, GT3s and F430 will be my only choices, even if used. Turbo for an everyday chill car works, but not for a car I want to track and a car I bought to get my blood boiling.

F*ck BMW for ruining the last thing that defined them. Every bit of news that comes from them points to them falling further and further from who they are. High end porches and //Ms shouldn't be designed for the masses, charge more for them and reduce production. Don't turn them into something that appeals to the masses and increase production.

This is so DISAPPOINTING, makes me so sad...
__________________

"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 09:38 PM   #81
gemini330zhp
Major
gemini330zhp's Avatar
Philippines
34
Rep
1,181
Posts

Drives: 2008 M3 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BergenCo NewJersey

iTrader: (0)

Would like to know what the new Ms performance Numbers will be with Turbos. All I can say is Torque Monster!!! 2010.
__________________
2008 Jet Black E90 M3 6SPD no sunroof and 18s to my specs


Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 09:39 PM   #82
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
756
Rep
1,895
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

The only "gotta have it" factor for me is the engine in this car (high revving V8). Enjoy these cars while you can

I'll reserve judgement on the new M's when I get to drive it. However I'm not feeling optimistic...
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 09:39 PM   #83
e46e92love
Brigadier General
e46e92love's Avatar
United_States
233
Rep
3,302
Posts

Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The East Side of Things

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Wow... all BMW has to do now is throw some turbos on an engine for "regular" BMWs and call it an M... Um, I think M is no longer M... and we've got the last and what a shame. I'll never buy another M and just hold on to the one I have for as long as I can.

Also, it would be one thing to make an engine from scratch for the M, and then put turbos on it. But to add turbos to any old engine in the line-up is pure - SELL OUT.
I never thought I would find myself saying this, but Laszlo, you have it the nail right on the head. Such a shame..........BMW has been completely taken over by the accountants and marketing department.

Cheers,
e46e92
__________________

"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 09:45 PM   #84
e46e92love
Brigadier General
e46e92love's Avatar
United_States
233
Rep
3,302
Posts

Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The East Side of Things

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW View Post
BMW has officially fucked up. Way to pull a Mercedes.

Fuck. This pisses me off so much. This proves to me that no one can do anything right anymore. Fuck.
MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!!!

Cheers,
e46e92
__________________

"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 10:19 PM   #85
chris719
Major General
7273
Rep
7,252
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Being the owner of a 135i, I can see why people like FI cars--it really is a fun car to drive. Faster, cheaper, easier to upgrade than an M3--not a bad deal.

That being said, I don't think that the M division is something that appeals to the masses anyway, so why change an old philosophy? You can go FI with other cars in your line, that's fine, but for the M division, I think staying NA is better.

For example, my dad has an '07 M Coupe--sure my car is faster than his in a straight line, but doesn't have 1/10 of the soul. It appears there will be no future M versions of the Z4, but you are going to have an M version of the X6? The X5? This makes no sense to me--you are going to have soccer moms driving MX6's and have no idea what M is supposed to mean.

To be honest, I think BMW took too big of a jump with the N54, and you can get M-like performance out of a 1 or 3 for a fraction of the cost of an M3. So they come out with a NA V8, which is a very nice engine, but is one that will still get burned by a 335 in a straight line on the street.

This appears to be another "we don't know where we are going" move from BMW. Sad to see.


Not to start this shit again, but the M3 is faster in a straight line than the 135 and 335 (stock!), most likely the M coupe is actually faster also.

I do not think this will be the end of NA engines in M cars. Even if it was, I have faith that the M division engineers can still deliver the experience they want.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 10:23 PM   #86
///MML
Private First Class
///MML's Avatar
United_States
45
Rep
175
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SF

iTrader: (0)

Sad to see the NA engine go away for the M car. People buy cars for whatever reason but I really like to 100+hp per liter technology and it sets the car apart from an engineering perspective. Anyone can FI an engine. How many FI engines do you see in a Ferrari, Lambo or Aston Martin. Zero! Hopefully BMW will change their mind and stay with NA for M cars....
__________________
2022 M240i | Brooklyn Gray | Red Leather | Black 791M rim| Black trim | HK | Premium | M Lum
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 10:46 PM   #87
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Not to start this shit again, but the M3 is faster in a straight line than the 135 and 335 (stock!), most likely the M coupe is actually faster also.

I do not think this will be the end of NA engines in M cars. Even if it was, I have faith that the M division engineers can still deliver the experience they want.
Fair enough. I'm not stock. Then again, neither is he.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2008, 11:07 PM   #88
ik999
Lieutenant
ik999's Avatar
Canada
25
Rep
497
Posts

Drives: e90 335i f32 435xi
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: gta

iTrader: (0)

what is happening to BMW


if NA engines are going out of style, then they should just introduce a new model instead of changing the M3

do what AMG did - people wanted track performance, so give it to them under a new name - Black Series. Don't change the original philosophy of the brand, otherwise it loses all it's value to the enthusiasts, and credibility to the fans.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
m cars drop v8 and v10, m-i6, m-v6

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST