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      06-04-2009, 08:08 AM   #23
MMMorish
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Sunoco Ultra 94 FTW!! That's all I've ever used in my M.
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      06-04-2009, 10:45 AM   #24
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BP/Amoco

I have only used BP/Amoco in all my cars and plan on using it in my M. When not available I will settle for Exxon.
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      06-04-2009, 11:00 AM   #25
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The recent stories about direct injection engines not withstanding, I've never seen any real data that compares cars run solely on Tier 1 gas vs. those that are run solely on non-Tier 1 gas. Does anyone have any data that supports the claims that Tier 1 gas is better for you car?

All I have in anecdotal evidence, which is that I ran my E46 M3 for 125,000 miles filling it up with whatever was convenient, and I never had a single engine problem and never had any performance decrease (in fact if anything it got faster over time). Not only that but my mechanic (private shop) said the motor was in good shape and appeared well cared for. Like I said, this is just my own experience though. I'd really love to see some real data on this.
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      06-04-2009, 11:00 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo Squirrel View Post
i have only ever put shell v-power in my M3s
the Shell V-power that we have here in socal totally destroyed my HPFP on my 335. I've only used Mobil since day 1 on the M3
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      06-04-2009, 11:24 AM   #27
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I use BP or Exon because I get rebates (10% - 7%) by using their credit cards. At the track, I use Sunoco - no rebate there!!!
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      06-04-2009, 11:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesummer View Post
the Shell V-power that we have here in socal totally destroyed my HPFP on my 335. I've only used Mobil since day 1 on the M3
must be sucky in socal, good stuff here in the northeast
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      06-04-2009, 12:31 PM   #29
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Top tier gas is going to show benefits over the long run folks. Also keep in mind injectors keep getting more and more (read: smaller) holes, for better atomization, and that makes them more prone to clogging, so a good additive package is important. Yes, you can buy one separately (like Techron) every few months, but I prefer the top-tier gas alternative that already includes it. Do one or the other if you care about your high-performance machine. Good day.

Last edited by JCtx; 06-04-2009 at 02:46 PM..
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      06-04-2009, 02:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmamg View Post
something to think about:

what if the person before you pumping gas at the station used 87? then you pull up to the same pump and put in a few gallons (because i dont like to have a full tank most of the time ), wont you be pumping in the residual amount of 87 gasoline that the previous person pumped into their car that was left in the nozzle and hose?

IMO i dont think that should make a huge difference, just something to think about.
That's why I always pour a gallon on the ground first

Seriously, that is a big issue with high performance motorcycles, go-karts etc that only hold a few gallons since it can significantly dilute the octane level. The solution is to use pumps with a hose for each grade but those are getting hard to find.

In a car, it isn't as big an issue. I doubt it is a full gallon in the hose but for arguments sake, let's say it is 1 gallon of 87 and you fill up with 10 gallons of 91. Everything being linear, your resulting octane would be 90.6 so it is a minor consideration.

As for Costco, don't know about their gas but I always laugh at the idiots here who will sit in line for ten minutes with the engine running to save 3 cents a gallon on gas I realize other areas don't have lines like they do here.
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      06-04-2009, 05:50 PM   #31
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I've used Costco a few times, but mainly Shell. If you do use a non top tier brand, every few fill ups use the good stuff. The additives will help keep it cleaner. Also, once your car is past the break in period, rev it up a few times per week. Gas is one thing, but driving like a grandma all the time is far worse.
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      06-06-2009, 11:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
I have taken enough refining courses to say that there is a difference and that better gas is better gas.
What do you think of Shell's new Nitrogen additive enriched fuel?
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      06-06-2009, 12:09 PM   #33
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After thinking about it, if Costco gas is anything like their Vodka (it is Ketel One), there is probably not much to worry about. All of their products are very high quality. I would worry more about Arco and other discount fuels.
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      06-06-2009, 10:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
After thinking about it, if Costco gas is anything like their Vodka (it is Ketel One), there is probably not much to worry about. All of their products are very high quality. I would worry more about Arco and other discount fuels.
It's Kirkland
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      06-06-2009, 10:43 PM   #35
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my theory on fuel is this...each brand has their own additives that they put into the fuel to make it in theory better than another brand. that being said, ive seen bad fuel from every manufacturer and brand around...so...id still recommend using a top tier supplier(i personally try to only use Shell)
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      06-06-2009, 11:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Rolly View Post
What do you think of Shell's new Nitrogen additive enriched fuel?
Maybe there's something to it, but I tend to be cynical about claims and read that as m a r k e t i n g. Show me some data--I have an open mind--and will change it if the data support doing so.
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      06-07-2009, 01:42 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Maybe there's something to it, but I tend to be cynical about claims and read that as m a r k e t i n g. Show me some data--I have an open mind--and will change it if the data support doing so.
+1.
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      06-07-2009, 10:35 PM   #38
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Shell V power

I started to use Shell when gas prices spiked and the cost difference between shell and exxon narrowed.


I have noticed that my E46 M and E92 M are much more responsive off the line
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      06-08-2009, 06:57 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The recent stories about direct injection engines not withstanding, I've never seen any real data that compares cars run solely on Tier 1 gas vs. those that are run solely on non-Tier 1 gas. Does anyone have any data that supports the claims that Tier 1 gas is better for you car?

All I have in anecdotal evidence, which is that I ran my E46 M3 for 125,000 miles filling it up with whatever was convenient, and I never had a single engine problem and never had any performance decrease (in fact if anything it got faster over time). Not only that but my mechanic (private shop) said the motor was in good shape and appeared well cared for. Like I said, this is just my own experience though. I'd really love to see some real data on this.
It's pretty impossible to do such an empirical study. The simple reason is that many of the major brands which do not have the Top Tier certification, WOULD actually meet the standard if they submitted themselves to the process. They have for their own reasons concluded that it's not worth it to pay for the Top Tier certification process. My guess is such a study done between all major brands will show no differences, because they meet the standard even though they are uncertified.

Also of note, outlets like Costco, etc., often purchase their products from the major oil companies, and likely already have the additives mixed in. The only issue is that you don't know. When you buy Top Tier, you do know, but I would also extend that to any major oil company.

Of course, you can always get a tank of "bad gas," even at a Top Tier retailer, if their underground storage tanks have somehow become contaminated. The best advice is to stick to newer stations, because they tend to have newer, cleaner tanks.
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      06-08-2009, 07:07 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Maybe there's something to it, but I tend to be cynical about claims and read that as m a r k e t i n g. Show me some data--I have an open mind--and will change it if the data support doing so.
I'm with you...

To me it sounds like less gas in each gallon as some amount of volume is being taken up with nitrogen. Do they not realize at shell that 70% of the air coming into you engine already is nitrogen?
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      06-08-2009, 08:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I'm with you...

To me it sounds like less gas in each gallon as some amount of volume is being taken up with nitrogen. Do they not realize at shell that 70% of the air coming into you engine already is nitrogen?
lol
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      06-09-2009, 01:15 AM   #42
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Costco buys its gas daily on the spot market. Consequently, it could be Mobile one day, Shell the next and something else the following day.

While I am generally comfortable with Costco gas, I think twice about buying it when their storage tanks are being filled, which is pretty often at my local Costco. I read that when a station's storage tanks are being filled, it kicks up the gunk that settles on the bottom of the tank, which can then find its way into your tank if you refuel while the tanks are being refueld or soon thereafter.
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      06-09-2009, 01:24 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
It's Kirkland
I know it is Kirkland, but if you read the label carefully it is Ketel One bought in bulk and relabeled.
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      06-09-2009, 02:30 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo Squirrel View Post
i have only ever put shell v-power in my M3s
all you're buying is a brand name. there isn't anything more special about shell v-power than any other top tier fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Maybe there's something to it, but I tend to be cynical about claims and read that as m a r k e t i n g. Show me some data--I have an open mind--and will change it if the data support doing so.
+1. marketing is everything in an industry that doesn't have a whole lot of brand loyalty. let's face it...most people go out and buy the cheapest, most convenient gas they can find. so how do you generate loyalty? give it a fancy name and say it's got magical nitrogen in it...couple that with some spiffy commercials and decorate their employees in bright shirts adorned with happy colors and images and you've got the makings of something called a marketing campaign. that's how you begin to establish loyal customers in a tough loyalty market...and when you get that, you can charge more for your product. call it the 'apple effect'...it's advertised as better, therefore it must be, right? not always the case...but since droves of zombies now buy into it, they can put a premium price tag on everything because people believe they're buying a better lifestyle. puhhhleazeee

as mentioned, all gas comes from the same sources. its made in a refinery, not necessarily the brand's refinery, shipped down a pipeline to your region, pumped into a tanker truck that contains trace additives already (and when i say trace, it can be as little as a quart of additives for a whole tanker), mixed through an intricate sloshing procedure called driving down our shitty american roads, pumped into your neighborhood station's tanks, then into your tank. the gas that comes out of the pipeline, barge, or tanker ship is all the same from whatever refinery is sending it through the pipe that day. the additives are so trace in nature that it would probably take hundreds of thousands of miles to really quantify which one is better.

now the biggest variable in the whole gas debate is the store owner. he's the one that has to worry about his small profit margins, putting food on the table, getting the kids through school, and living comfortably. he's also the one that has the most say in what does or doesn't go in his gas, if you know what i'm saying. most franchise stores won't have fuckery like that of mom and pop off-brand gas stations, which i wouldn't use to fill my tank if it was the last gas on earth. costco is not an off-brand. i've used costco in my cars tons of times, but since i don't live remotely close to a costco, i don't use it often. if i did, sure i'd use it all the time. costco gas still has many of the same detergents used in all the other brands, it's just not sold with the big fanfare.

everyone here has basic judgment skills, i hope. most of us can spot something legit from something a little shady. don't buy the shady stuff and don't buy marketing campaigns. either way, you'll be ripped off.

now if i could just find a pump without that damn ethanol stuff in it.
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