Quick questions on rod bearings

[jin]

Hey guys i know of 2 M3s that have had rod bearing failure in NZ now. Both of them 2008 models and high mileage approx. 70,000 miles +.

Are the new rod bearings still failing? Understand they changed and new part #s are 703 / 704.

The new ones do not contain lead right? So oil analysis is not going to tell you if they are wearing?

[WhatsADSM]

That's never a quick question around here.

[Move Over]

Tons of info on this. Search search.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by jin

Hey guys i know of 2 M3s that have had rod bearing failure in NZ now. Both of them 2008 models and high mileage approx. 70,000 miles +.

Are the new rod bearings still failing? Understand they changed and new part #s are 703 / 704.

The new ones do not contain lead right? So oil analysis is not going to tell you if they are wearing?

The answer is yes , and even in NZ ..Think that's new for all of us .
We saw all failing no matter what built year or type of bearings .
Here is more => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615

About what a Blackstone oil report would show in case of...
Blackstone => http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

S65's from 2007 <=> May 2011 would show increased ppm levels of lead and copper in case of bad bearing wear .

S65's after may 2011 <=> end of 2013 would show increased ppm levels of aluminium because the bearings were changed into aluminium by Euro/environment legislation .

But....

For "NOT" turning another thread into Internet Hysteria I need to mention that we have also some outstanding S65's on here with + 150K miles on it !

[squartus]

Yes the new bearings are blowing engines as well, no change. As stated above you will need to look for increased aluminium in the blackstone for the new bearings.

Just got my blackstone back from last change, running New bearings WPC treated, new bearings and supercharged for last 16k. Only had 3 for my aluminium level which is less than half of what the average is.
Which is nice considering my orignal bearings were shot at 31k! Blackstone gave me a huge thumbs up

[jin]

Thanks guys. Sucks the new ones are still blowing motors. But at least the wear can be monitored to some degree although I have read about some shitting themselves despite no warning from oil analysis. Damn.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

For "NOT" turning another thread into Internet Hysteria I need to mention that we have also some outstanding S65's on here with + 150K miles on it !

Miles, not Kilometers, Miles on original 2008 bearings, as of last post, so presently, over 200K:


Currently at 120K miles, and was going to change mine at 150K, but after seeing this, I'm going for 200!!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Miles, not Kilometers, Miles on original 2008 bearings, as of last post, so presently, over 200K:


Currently at 120K miles, and was going to change mine at 150K, but after seeing this, I'm going for 200!!

Yeah ...But that's what I said my friend , "I said "Miles"
About your pic that you posted ...It shows "190K Miles" !

And 190K Miles converted into KM's => "305,775 KM's" !
And 305,775 KM's for a S65 is just
Think it's a World Record for our S65 engine...
EDIT : And it shows with DCT trans .

[jin]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Miles, not Kilometers, Miles on original 2008 bearings, as of last post, so presently, over 200K:


Currently at 120K miles, and was going to change mine at 150K, but after seeing this, I'm going for 200!!

Yeah ive seen that pic before you keep posting it all over the place. You rub that in ppls faces when their rod bearings fail do you? Yes this might only be affecting a small percentage of cars. You tell that to the poor bastard who has to pay to fix their engine because its out of warranty.

[bigsurge]

One thing you should make sure is that youdont over fill your oil, as more oil will take longer to heat up, dont rev past 3000 until the needle reaches 100c
and monitor the oil with blackstone, even with all this bs the engine is still one of the best in the world.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Miles, not Kilometers, Miles on original 2008 bearings, as of last post, so presently, over 200K:
[IMG]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/278/1...f2682846_z.jpg[/IMG]

Currently at 120K miles, and was going to change mine at 150K, but after seeing this, I'm going for 200!!

You may very well see 200K and I hope you do! The stars may have aligned when your engine was built and it may be one of the ones that the tolerance stack up was on the loose end of spec on all main and rod bores and journals.

For me, I am not one to gamble with a $25K+ engine. Once my stroker is built, I'll be pulling apart my original engine and dialing in the clearances on it too.

To the OP, from the levidence we have, the failure rate does not seem to have changed with the new bearings. The clearances with the 702/703s is not much better than with the 088/089s. Also of note, the harder surface of the aluminium overlay on the 702/703s makes it much more likely for you to damage the journal in the event of metal on metal contact between the bearing and the journal.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by bigsurge

One thing you should make sure is that youdont over fill your oil, as more oil will take longer to heat up, dont rev past 3000 until the needle reaches 100c
and monitor the oil with blackstone, even with all this bs the engine is still one of the best in the world.

Haha well you don't want to overfill your oil due to the damage it can cause to your engine, slight change in oil warm up time would be the least of your worries. Engine has the potential to be one of the best, when its rebuilt to proper specs.

[jin]

Originally Posted by squartus

Haha well you don't want to overfill your oil due to the damage it can cause to your engine, slight change in oil warm up time would be the least of your worries. Engine has the potential to be one of the best, when its rebuilt to proper specs.

What is "rebuilt to proper specs"?

[pbonsalb]

A lot more expensive to disassemble the entire motor than to change rod bearings. But if you feel it is necessary, go for it.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

A lot more expensive to disassemble the entire motor than to change rod bearings. But if you feel it is necessary, go for it.

Was this reply for me?

If so I'll be pulling the bottom end apart and measuring it all up as a project in my garage. Cost won't be an issue, since the labour will be free. The only thing I'll have to pay for is machine work, if required and parts.

[8600RPM]

Isn't the fact the failure rate with newer bearings is the same even though clearance is better, a indicator more clearance isn't helping?

[squartus]

The new alum bearings 2011 +are thinner than the lead ones?? First time I have heard that, thought only the new aftermarket bearings were thinner.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Isn't the fact the failure rate with newer bearings is the same even though clearance is better, a indicator more clearance isn't helping?

How do you know this for a fact? I haven't seen any conclusive numbers on the actual number of S65 failures worldwide pre or post bearing p/n change, only those reported on this forum.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Isn't the fact the failure rate with newer bearings is the same even though clearance is better, a indicator more clearance isn't helping?

I think the bearing material change was to comply with the law not to change clearance.

[Leonardo629]

If you guys check out the rod bearing wiki, new bearings have greater clearance, eccentricity is also different.

[jin]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

If you guys check out the rod bearing wiki, new bearings have greater clearance, eccentricity is also different.

And they are still failing?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

If you guys check out the rod bearing wiki, new bearings have greater clearance, eccentricity is also different.

Everything I have read, and I have read everything on the subject, suggests that the bearing change was to comply with EU no lead laws and that there was no redesign of tolerances. Besides, to the extent there is a problem to fix, it was much less recognized in 2010 when the bearings were changed.