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01-17-2008, 10:24 AM | #1 |
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M-DCT/ SMG III (auto-mode)
I'm a little concerned about how well the automatic mode works on this DCT unit. Being that I'll be doing a lot of city driving (ugly traffic). I'll probably in this mode a majority of the time. I've heard some comment that the previous SMG tranny auto-mode was crappy and kind of rough. Hoping this is smooth and also be able to handle any aggressive driving when needed (sport mode).
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01-17-2008, 10:42 AM | #2 | |
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I had an E46 with SMG, and yes the auto function of that wasn't anywhere near comparable with the smoothness of a conventional auto. I used it all of 10 mins in the 3 years I owned the car. As for the DCT. Yes it will be smoother, but I don't plan on using the auto much either. Why bother? It's not exactly hard to flip a paddle of shift a lever to change gear. The worst bit about driving in traffic with a manual gearbox is the clutch, and you won't have a clutch to deal with. And the idea of talking about aggressive driving and using the auto function is complete nonsense. When driving aggressively why would you be using the auto function? |
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01-17-2008, 10:54 AM | #3 | |
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The thing about the SMG that I found is that once you began to let off the gas a bit while shifting like you would in a 6mt (unless you were power shifting with no concern for the clutch) that it was very smooth. If you just pushed the gas down like a normal auto and either use the padles to shift or let it shift for you then it would be a bit rough.
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01-17-2008, 10:54 AM | #4 | |
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Found this on WorldCarFans, hope it isn't a repost.
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01-17-2008, 12:45 PM | #5 |
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I'll disagree with this. Modern automatics have gotten pretty darn good, they are still more complex and lossy than a MT or DCT/DSG but they behave darn well on the track or when driving aggressively. The DCT when put in the most aggressive automatic mode is very likely to be a great set up for track or aggressive driving. Certainly I'm not saying it would not be as good as manual mode for ultimate control of shifts.
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01-17-2008, 01:07 PM | #6 | |
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My point is why would you want to? |
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01-17-2008, 01:09 PM | #7 | |
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The first thing that you need to change is the perception that this M-DKG have any functional similarity with the SMG other than both are automated manual transmissions. SMG was an excellent exercise in an automated manual, but the issue of having to shift gears like there's an actual manual transmission there -releasing the gas before next gear engagement for smoothness, otherwise it will be somewhat jerky- defeated its purpose for me. That's what a bunch of solenoids could do at the most with one single clutch and 6 gears. M-DKG simply adds a second clutch, pre-select the next gear and that's it... shifts like a pro, with the smoothness of a luxury car without releasing the gas pedal. My GTI DSG has only 3 modes (Manual, Automatic and Sport Automatic), and it is simply brilliant with 6 Speeds and 252hp (chipped). Just imagine now 11 modes (6 Manual and 5 Automatic), 414hp and 7 Speeds... if there is no Automatic mode that can satisfy you out of 5 modes then you need to take the bus to work. Last edited by Technic; 01-17-2008 at 05:10 PM.. Reason: Orthographical errors... |
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01-17-2008, 04:05 PM | #8 |
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01-17-2008, 04:32 PM | #9 | |
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Hallelujah, Another guy who has experienced DSG and knows that a multitude of options are surplus to requirements. I don't have my DSG GTi anymore but let me guess, most of the time you run it in auto (65%), sometime in sports auto (25%) of which it really is sensitive to the right foot and drops multiple gears at the whiff of some throttle and occasionally in manual (10%) most for the Sunday drive by yourself with the music up loud. How did I do. |
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01-17-2008, 04:43 PM | #10 | ||
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01-17-2008, 05:05 PM | #11 |
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Maybe I am reading it differently, to me it sounds like he is saying that his DSG has three modes and it's brilliant, just imagine 11 modes (6 manual and 5 auto) if you can find one to suit you then this box isn't the one for you.
The problem is that anyone who has SMG and hasn't sample a 'dual clutch gearbox' thinks the SMG is the dog's bits but the fact is that next to this it's like a Model-T to a Bugatti Veyron, it's so much better it's unreal. The SMG need all of it's modes because not one of them was right it's the nature of the thing unlike DCT/DSG which is in another world of smoothness, speed and refinement. |
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01-17-2008, 05:09 PM | #12 | |
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01-17-2008, 05:18 PM | #13 | |
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To tell you the truth I was the same about using the stick, with the paddle connected to the wheel I found that at junctions the up-shift paddle would be on the wrong side most of the time when you were turning. Though to be fair I drive mostly around town and auto suited start stop traffic best, the sport mode was good though as it definitely dropped the gears quick enough when you wanted. P.S. You can't count, 10% + 90% + 1% = 101% |
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01-17-2008, 06:31 PM | #14 |
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its not good to up shift or down shift during a turn as you upset the geometry of the car and may lose control i.e. spin out...shifting and braking should be done in a straight line as opposed to turns/curves...also may depend on how sharp the turn/curve is...HTH
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01-17-2008, 07:04 PM | #16 | |
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01-17-2008, 07:07 PM | #17 |
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Unless BMW is so in love with the SMG that they designed this dual clutch transmission to behave like a single clutch transmission, I doubt that it will be jerky at all... that's defeating the purpose, again.
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01-17-2008, 07:18 PM | #18 | |
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Have you missed all of the discussion about how good Audi/VW/Bugatti/Nissan/Mitsubishi DCT type systems are. They are all so good becuase they are all essentially the same - a different mechanical beast all with great software to back up the hardware. |
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01-17-2008, 07:23 PM | #19 | |
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We all agree that given how good DCT will work 11 modes may be more than is required. However, you should also agree that there are a huge array of possibilities that owners might demand/desire control over, especially the track junkies. I have posted these possiblities twice now, do I need to again? You can't seem to give up the fact that more adjustability than YOU desire or deem necessary is simply more than ANYONE could want/use. This is totally flawed reasoning. Since you are such a big DSG fan (rightly so, I'd add) and since you drive it most of the time in auto mode get M-DCT and leave it in the least aggressive automatic mode 99% of the time, obtain massive underutilization of this rich technical gem and you'll be thrilled. Lastly, since you are such a FI and AWD fan I seriously question your interest in the M3 in the first place (as have other board memebers). |
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01-17-2008, 07:49 PM | #20 |
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Um, the same reason F1 cars did until it was banned. A computer can be more percise at timing the upshifts for peak acceleration.
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01-17-2008, 08:14 PM | #21 |
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The only time I used auto mode with SMG3 is the emergency coffee moments. I know of very few who would use auto mode because it really doesn't feel like an auto. Between SMG2 and SMG3, I haven't really spent the time to figure out how to drive in auto mode smoothly in traffic.
SMG2 / 3 can easily be driven smoothly in traffic manually. The 3 faults that MDCT will address are reliability, smoothness at slow speeds and girl / auto mode. I don't think there will be much of any improvement in WOT acceleration between SMG and DCT. The big criticism of VW DSG has been its souless nature (whether it is caused by a low power engine or DSG is too smooth......I am in the camp of the low power engine). With MDCT, I expect when it is mated to a high power motor, it will feel like SMG on upshifts and smoother too on downshifts. That being said, we can't give Footie a victory so here.....
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01-17-2008, 08:49 PM | #22 | |
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I want to drive fast but with me deciding which gear I want to be in. If that means that it's a little bit slower then so be it. BUT I don't want a standard manual because I like changing the gears without the hassle of a clutch, and it's new technology so it's cutting edge and modern. |
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