Supercharged e90 M3 Failure

[nevin]

Just a little FYI and I'm gonna try to keep it short. I went with an AA charger almost a year ago. They did not install it properly and zero meth was getting to the system. I called them they told me that it was weird cause they don't usually install the meth lines the way they did. Paid to have it fixed by a BMW mechanic who I luckily ran into one day. Sold the car a month later to someone who knew a lot more about engines then me. He said it was way more fucked up then just the meth line. I expressed my concern to AA about not being mechanically inclined they convinced me that it was pretty fail safe and not to worry. Had I not sold the car I would have for sure blown my engine, no question. Reason I never posted was because some people on these forums are all about flaming and ruining threads.

The only guy at AA who seems to know what's going on is the guy that sounds Jamaican, don't remember his name. Go with ESS!

[MilehighM3]

That's most likely Craig. It doesn't make sense that you would put 15k into a car and then sell it a month later? I'm going to have to call BS here....

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by IFX

Maybe you should go back and re-read your post. (It's in caps too)
Wow

Reading comprehension 101......keep trying, I give you a C+ for effort.


Cheers,
e46e92

[chris s]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

That's most likely Craig. It doesn't make sense that you would put 15k into a car and then sell it a month later? I'm going to have to call BS here....

Well you would be wrong then...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=519113

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by chris s

Well you would be wrong then...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=519113

I stand corrected!

[Rekrul]

Originally Posted by nevin

Just a little FYI and I'm gonna try to keep it short. I went with an AA charger almost a year ago. They did not install it properly and zero meth was getting to the system. I called them they told me that it was weird cause they don't usually install the meth lines the way they did. Paid to have it fixed by a BMW mechanic who I luckily ran into one day. Sold the car a month later to someone who knew a lot more about engines then me. He said it was way more fucked up then just the meth line. I expressed my concern to AA about not being mechanically inclined they convinced me that it was pretty fail safe and not to worry. Had I not sold the car I would have for sure blown my engine, no question. Reason I never posted was because some people on these forums are all about flaming and ruining threads.

The only guy at AA who seems to know what's going on is the guy that sounds Jamaican, don't remember his name. Go with ESS!

Wow. What ended up happening with the car? I wonder if the new owner would chime in.

[M3 Piotr]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

OP, Thanks for posting this.
It's very unfortunate that this happened but I really hope that more information surfaces.

BTW, for those that commented about deleting this thread, the only way that this thread will be deleted is if the OP requested it.
This is a very important thread and I'm hoping that we can learn a lot from it.
Posts, on the other hand, are a different story.

Interesting. I made a thread once about the M3 CRT and it was deleted without me requesting it. I was there at the M Festival at the "Ring" when BMW officially released the CRT (June 2011) and created a thread while at the event, but you guys removed it, since you had your own coverage.

[nevin]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

That's most likely Craig. It doesn't make sense that you would put 15k into a car and then sell it a month later? I'm going to have to call BS here....

Then how would I know about the Jamaican guy? Yes Craig was his name. This is exactly the reason why I never posted anything. I can't even chime in on someone else's thread without some know-it-all "calling BS." What a joke!

To the other guy, not really sure what happened with the car. The new owner kept me updated for a while so as far as I knew he fixed all the problems. I'm pretty sure he's not a member of these forums so he won't be saying anything.

Edit-just saw you realized your mistake.

[chungdae]

^Interesting

[MilehighM3]

Well everyone, let's hope that our "update" doesn't keep getting pushed out. It was supposed to be Monday/Tuesday, then Wednesday, now what's next? Oh, that's right, we probably won't get one and be stuck with another cliff hanger! Haha

[Ateam]

I think and hope this is a good lesson to anyone who runs a business out there. I have no clue who is "right v. wrong here" Lots of good evidence on both sides but lets assume it is totally the purchasers fault here.

Once a business sees someone who is taking something to the press or in this case the forums, it is MUCH MUCH cheaper in the long-run to make that person happy. I would have bought the guy a new engine, installed it and had him on his way.

How many AA kits and business do you think is lost from this thread alone? I would ventures 100s of thousands over the course of the years to come. Everytime someone searches AA this is now logged in history.

Sometimes being right does not matter and giving in to scum bags who are trying to nickle and dime you is not pleasent or even "right" but sometimes what is right for business is not what is right by other standards.

Especially in this case where it does not seem super clear cut that the customer did something really ridiculous to break it. In a case where it was clearly the owners fault and there is clear evidence pointing to that then of course you don't go buy everyone who wrecks their car a new one.

However there is enough muddy area in this to create strong opinions on both sides and in these cases its better to take the hit and continue with a clear good name.

[crummer]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

Well everyone, let's hope that our "update" doesn't keep getting pushed out. It was supposed to be Monday/Tuesday, then Wednesday, now what's next? Oh, that's right, we probably won't get one and be stuck with another cliff hanger! Haha

May I ask what value you are bringing to this thread?

[MilehighM3]

It's like being left with blue balls. No one likes that! Haha

[BPMSport]

Freezeframe data (and VIN information) was read from the car and it is an identical match to what AA posted, other than redline being hit 2 more times since he purchased the new engine.

According to the data, the overrev was recorded about ~1K miles before the engine failed. This is likely when the car had AA's software, before the supercharger was fitted. I do not think that this is directly attributable to the failure of the engine in this case considering the difference in mileage and that software with a raised redline was previously fitted. (Edit: based on mileage it's possible that it did happen with the S/C fitted, but that still doesn't mean that this caused a failure 1,000 miles later).

Anything could have happened here, there are too many unknowns to definitively say exactly what transpired. For those of you that said that this is a shop car that was beaten to hell, I can't say for sure, but I don't think that's the case here. From his readout it said that he has only bumped up against the rev limiter 343 times in 26XXX mileage. My personal car is the same build year (12/07) and it has recorded almost 3,000 hits of the rev limiter. Granted, I have 37K miles, but it's clear that I've hit it quite a bit more frequently than he does. My car also recorded a max rev of 8,705, which was not a moneyshift but due to the raised rev limiter.

What happened here could be anything, a tuning issue, a defective BMW part, extra stress exacerbated by the fitting of the supercharger, etc.. There is just no way to say with 100% certainty.

I wish the OP the best in resolving this situation - he seemed like a nice guy.

Thanks everyone,
Mike

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Freezeframe data (and VIN information) was read from the car and it is an identical match to what AA posted, other than redline being hit 2 more times since he purchased the new engine.

According to the data, the overrev was recorded about ~1K miles before the engine failed. This is likely when the car had AA's software, before the supercharger was fitted. I do not think that this is directly attributable to the failure of the engine in this case considering the difference in mileage and that software with a raised redline was previously fitted.

Anything could have happened here, there are too many unknowns to definitively say exactly what transpired. For those of you that said that this is a shop car that was beaten to hell, I can't say for sure, but I don't think that's the case here. From his readout it said that he has only bumped up against the rev limiter 343 times in 26XXX mileage.

Mike,

Thanks for reading and posting your findings. A couple of questions:
1. In AA's 1st post in this thread they state the OP's car had 24,345 miles on it at the time of the SC install. This mileage was not disputed by the OP. So how do you know that the "over-rev" did not occur with the SC installed? The OP has already stated in this thread that there's no way the freeze-frame data posted by AA came from his car and/or AA had altered it because "freeze-frame" was spelled incorrectly but clearly the data did come from his car and it wasn't altered.

2. Where does it state on AA's website that their non-SC tune raises the limit to 8700 rpm? When I just looked on their website I could not find it.

Thanks!

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by dbarnes

Mike,

Thanks for reading and posting your findings. A couple of questions:
1. In AA's 1st post in this thread they state the OP's car had 24,345 miles on it at the time of the SC install. This mileage was not disputed by the OP. So how do you know that the "over-rev" did not occur with the SC installed? The OP has already stated in this thread that there's no way the freeze-frame data posted by AA came from his car and/or AA had altered it because "freeze-frame" was spelled incorrectly but clearly the data did come from his car and it wasn't altered.

2. Where does it state on AA's website that their non-SC tune raises the limit to 8700 rpm? When I just looked on their website I could not find it.

Thanks!

1. Maybe it did occur with the S/C installed. What I am saying is that it likely wasn't an overrev that caused the engine to fail 1000 miles later.

2. I think they raise it to 8,600. And set to 8,600 it's possible for the car to hit higher than that +/- 100. Or maybe it was set to 8,400. I don't know.

What I can tell you is that on my car if I downshifted wrong and made it hit 8,705, my engine would likely be fine.

My redline was set to 8,600 or 8,650 when the max rev of 8,705 was recorded on my car.

I just wanted to post that the freezeframe data that AA posted is from the OP's car (and has NOT been modified by AA), and doesn't necessarily mean that an over rev caused the failure. That's drawing a conclusion without enough supporting evidence. If the freezeframe data read 1,100 miles later, then maybe it would be, but it's still not conclusive enough as throttles would close and injection of fuel and spark would be immediately cut, the engine would just be spinning at the RPM. Most overrev's have valve damage from piston on valve contact. Maybe 8,705 is the highest it records and it really hit 9,000. I don't know. And with too many unknowns it's frustrating to say what happened.

I don't want to be involved in this situation anymore now that the freezeframe data is read. My sole purpose was to read the data from the car and post whether it has been edited, and it has not been. Maybe someone drove the OP's car 1000 miles ago and hit 8,705 with a misshift. It still doesn't mean it caused the failure 1,000 miles later although I agree it doesn't look good. I wish AA and the OP the best in resolving the situation.

Thanks.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I don't want to be involved in this situation anymore now that the freezeframe data is read. My sole purpose was to read the data from the car and post whether it has been edited, and it has not been. Maybe someone drove the OP's car 1000 miles ago and hit 8,705 with a misshift. It still doesn't mean it caused the failure 1,000 miles later although I agree it doesn't look good.

Thanks for answering my questions. I fully understand why you made the above statement - thanks again for providing an independent read of the freeze-frame data

[THE TECH]

Thanks for the help with this Mike!

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by dbarnes

Thanks for answering my questions. I fully understand why you made the above statement - thanks again for providing an independent read of the freeze-frame data

+1

[frenchM3dreamer]

this thread is like a blind date gone wrong...
you think you were going to nail a pornstar that night, and you end up with a 400-lb nun...

well, at least Mike's data clears up one thing... only 99 other possibilities to go.

who's next?

[schnell325]

Is it over yet?

[BPMSport]

Thanks for the kind words everyone..

I'm glad I could help clear that one portion of this up..

If anyone is interested in seeing the freezeframe data being read, you can watch the video below: