General questions about the M-school

[chuck617]

Originally Posted by FLOSS M

Did you sign up for april 13 /14?

if so ill see you there

That's the one, I'll see you there.

[djseto]

Originally Posted by SROC5

Interesting, did not know that all cars were DCT. I was sort of expecting to have the choice and be able to drive MT, since I own a MT car.

I just got back from the 2 Day School two weeks ago and it was effing awesome.

As for the transmissions, they said they no longer use MT because they spent more time teaching people how to drive a MT properly. They said people would show up claiming how to drive them and then would end up burning through clutches or not learning the the curriculum because they couldn't master Heal/Toe down shifting. They said even the most experienced MT drivers couldn't always master heal/toe and that affected the rest of the stuff they do.

I also own a MT and having done the school, there is no way I could have learned and focused on the stuff they were teaching with an MT. There is a TON of hard ABS induced breaking before turning into a corner and trying to get used to that, heal/toe, make the proper turn, or even just focus on what they were teaching would have been overload. I'm not saying I like the DCT over the MT, but having really driven one, I wouldn't be opposed to DCT in my next car.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by djseto

I just got back from the 2 Day School two weeks ago and it was effing awesome.

As for the transmissions, they said they no longer use MT because they spent more time teaching people how to drive a MT properly. They said people would show up claiming how to drive them and then would end up burning through clutches or not learning the the curriculum because they couldn't master Heal/Toe down shifting. They said even the most experienced MT drivers couldn't always master heal/toe and that affected the rest of the stuff they do.

I also own a MT and having done the school, there is no way I could have learned and focused on the stuff they were teaching with an MT. There is a TON of hard ABS induced breaking before turning into a corner and trying to get used to that, heal/toe, make the proper turn, or even just focus on what they were teaching would have been overload. I'm not saying I like the DCT over the MT, but having really driven one, I wouldn't be opposed to DCT in my next car.

I guess, but from my perspective, I'm paying big bucks to drive a M car in the transmission I prefer and most enjoy, and to learn from M instructors who will show me how to accomplish maneuvers in MT better than I already do - or else what's the point? Don't get me wrong, DCT is a great transmission and it's technically better, but it's not what I prefer to drive the M car in.

If they have to, pre-qualify MT drivers for the class before it starts and weed out the novices from driving MT that session(s) if they're not ready. DCT can always be the back-up plan. However, for the people who pass, they should be given the option to experience instruction in MT to help advance their driving on and off the track.

I was curious about M school before, but now, less so after learning MT is simply not an option. I'm sure M school is still a blast regardless, but for that kind of cheddah, just a tad disappointed on MT not being an option at all.

[pseto]

Originally Posted by SROC5

I guess, but from my perspective, I'm paying big bucks to drive a M car in the transmission I prefer and most enjoy, and to learn from M instructors who will show me how to accomplish maneuvers in MT better than I already do - or else what's the point? Don't get me wrong, DCT is a great transmission and it's technically better, but it's not what I prefer to drive the M car in.

If they have to, pre-qualify MT drivers for the class before it starts and weed out the novices from driving MT that session(s) if they're not ready. DCT can always be the back-up plan. However, for the people who pass, they should be given the option to experience instruction in MT to help advance their driving on and off the track.

I was curious about M school before, but now, less so after learning MT is simply not an option. I'm sure M school is still a blast regardless, but for that kind of cheddah, just a tad disappointed on MT not being an option at all.

M school is all about the experience and fun, not about trying to make you a better driver. That's what HPDEs are for. There's also no one-on-one instruction. Pre-qualification wouldn't do much b/c even for those who know how to drive MT, there's still a period of getting used to a different clutch and the timing of shifts. Plus, it really sucks when someone in your group can't drive MT or blows one up, b/c everyone in that run group suffers.

[ase2dais]

I've been to the PC 3x and the last time I went was when the DCT made the debut and to my surprise the school M3 cars were replaced with this technology. I've asked why and they said it was much cheaper to the school to them, for they were tired of replacing burnt clutches. I've had a 08 M3 6MT and traded to a 09 DCT and honestly can say I enjoyed the DCT much better, and its this reason PC made the switch, I believe to DCT in there M3 cars.
I have not recently visited the PC, so I'm not sure it they went back to 6MT. I doubt it unless someone can attest that they did.
Its time to come out of age and learning DCT is a priceless know how in my opinion.

[pseto]

All M cars at the PC are DCT, including the new M5/M6. Not sure about the non-M cars, but it wouldn't surprise me if some still had MT.

[hlmiii]

Originally Posted by pseto

M school is all about the experience and fun, not about trying to make you a better driver.

This is wrong!

Maybe you mean with regard to teaching attendees how to learn MT??
But ALL of the schools, including M, emphasize becoming a better, more effective and more efficient driver. That's how all of the classes start - even in the most advance M courses.

Originally Posted by pseto

There's also no one-on-one instruction.

Absolutely not true. There's a lot of one-on-one instruction at the M levels, even if only speaking about speaking directly to the instructors. They also provide direct immediate input through radio communications while driving.
The amount of time actually in cars is dependent upon how many students are in attendance - it can happen.

Maybe I'm not understanding your points? Or maybe they're not written in the way you mean?

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by pseto

M school is all about the experience and fun, not about trying to make you a better driver. That's what HPDEs are for. There's also no one-on-one instruction. Pre-qualification wouldn't do much b/c even for those who know how to drive MT, there's still a period of getting used to a different clutch and the timing of shifts. Plus, it really sucks when someone in your group can't drive MT or blows one up, b/c everyone in that run group suffers.

Again, something new I learned, M school is not about making you a better driver...that's surprising to hear. Wow. I wish someone who instructs at the M school would actually confirm that's the case.

[pseto]

To further clarify, M school is a totally different animal than say an HPDE, where you would get an instructor sitting in your car, right next to you, giving you specific feedback about your driving skills. I've been to M school a few times, and never had anyone sit with me to drive. Anything learned is usually based on the lead instructor giving you some feedback based on what they see. Unfortunately, they can't see everything you do when they are essentially watching you from a lead position. It would be pretty difficult giving anyone MT instructions if they actually weren't sitting next to you watching and listening to what's going on.

I'm not saying you don't learn anything at M school, a lot depends on how much experience you have coming in. If you don't have much, then you may learn alot. If you've been to the track many times, you'll pickup some pointers along the way (besides, you are being led by professional race car drivers).

Don't get me wrong, I'd recommend M school to anyone. I'm just giving you my perspective about how it differs from an HPDE and which would actually be better regarding becoming a better driver. Both are outstanding experiences and different.