ABS kill switch for experienced drivers on track, anyone??

JuniorM3 · 11-03-2009, 07:03 PM

I had an ABS Kill switch in my E46 M3.

It's great for trackdays and even better for drifting track day's (Yes, WE have special driftin' trackday's in Europe

)

In the E46 i took fuse 33 out and put the switch in. And put the switch in the dash. When you spin, flick the switch, kill the ABS and lock up your brakes at the right moment to keep you beloved M3 out of the wall or wherever.

I have a trackday next sunday and wanna put it in my E92 M3 again. Didn't check the fuse chart yet.

Please don't respond to this post if you don't know/or doubt this advanced driving technique with locking up the brakes etc...

Anybody have this, and on witch fuse?

Radiation Joe · 11-04-2009, 09:39 AM

Nice idea. I asked about this many times when I had my e46. Having ABS put me into a wall has been one of my biggest fears for a long time (all the way back to my '90 Taurus SHO).

I don't believe anyone has the clarity of thought to hit the switch in the middle of a spin, but I can see turning off the ABS completely for track days (Says the man who tracks with DSC on). The risk of locking up a rear while trail braking some corners is there, however.

JuniorM3 · 11-04-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I don't believe anyone has the clarity of thought to hit the switch in the middle of a spin,

Experienced drivers have this time. The spin often comes as less of a supprise.

With my E46 M3 i didn't like how the car handeled with the ABS off (fuse 33 out) and the ESP doesn't work. Witch was off anywaz but FYI.

I'm gonna instal the ABS killswitch tomorrow c if it works and post an DIY.

Also gonna change my brake discs, pads and fab some custom brake backplates for my custom brake coolin'system DIY Link I´ll updat my DIY on that. And put some FRS in the brake system. Then i´ll b ready for my Spa Trackday on Sunday.

I´ll let you guy´s know how the car handels with the ABS off.

Cheers.

Radiation Joe · 11-04-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuniorM3

Experienced drivers have this time. The spin often comes as less of a supprise. ...

Cheers.

I find this hard to believe. Every time I've gone both feet in, it's been in the split second between realizing I couldn't save it and knowing the car was sliding in a direction that it wouldn't hit anything.

The sequence for me was usually:

Countersteer into the slide.
Reach the point of no return (Oh! 5hit! moment)
Go both feet in. (clutch disengaged, locked brakes)
Wait for the car to point in the direction I want and let off the brakes

I've never had the time between 2 and 3 to flip a switch. For me 3 is an instant response to 2. I suppose a real cool head could hit the switch before hitting the brakes.

BTW, I've done this in a race where I completed a 360 with both feet in and continued without losing my position (downhill coming out of the cyclone at Thunderhill in a non-ABS car).

Gearhead999s · 11-04-2009, 04:40 PM

I actually like having the ABS on as it does allow a lot more trail braking than without it working.On my E30 racecar we used to turn the ABS off only at tracks like Mosport were you needed to be able to lock it down in a spin to avoid the many walls around there.Not sure either about hitting a switch to disable in the middle of a spin though.

JCtx · 11-04-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Not sure either about hitting a switch to disable in the middle of a spin though.

Only location that would increase the odds of that feat would be on the steering wheel, perhaps with the 'accessory' star button???

I'm glad I'm not brave enough to be thinking about those mods

. Good luck.

JuniorM3 · 11-04-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I find this hard to believe. Every time I've gone both feet in, it's been in the split second between realizing I couldn't save it and knowing the car was sliding in a direction that it wouldn't hit anything.

The sequence for me was usually:

Countersteer into the slide.
Reach the point of no return (Oh! 5hit! moment)
Go both feet in. (clutch disengaged, locked brakes)
Wait for the car to point in the direction I want and let off the brakes

I agree that allot of people don't have the time or cool to pull it off.
Guess it's a 'Pro' trick.

About you list.

The trick is to lock the brakes at the correct time during the 'spin' @ witch the momentum of the car is 'pointing' in a 'safe' direction.
When the brakes are locked at this time and the wheels lose 'grip' the car will follow the path of it's momentum.

Countersteer into the slide.
Reach the point of no return (Oh! 5hit! moment)
Car spins, stay focused, wait for the right moment. (this takes years of experience)
Go both feet in. (clutch disengaged, locked brakes) (or one foot DCT)
Wait for the car to spin in the direction I want and let off the brakes to continue.
If not keep you foot on the brake so the car doesn't creep forward or backwards during the last few feet of your spin and somebody clips you.

Hope this inspires the people who didn't knew about this.

JuniorM3 · 11-04-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Only location that would increase the odds of that feat would be on the steering wheel, perhaps with the 'accessory' star button???

I'm glad I'm not brave enough to be thinking about those mods

. Good luck.

You'll lose track of the button during corrections, unless you check the position of the button with full lock. It actually a good idea...but you'll need to program it.

consolidated · 11-04-2009, 06:05 PM

Is it really this simple to bypass the ABS system without possible side affects to the other systems?

JuniorM3 · 11-04-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consolidated

Is it really this simple to bypass the ABS system without possible side affects to the other systems?

On the E46 it was. I know the DSC stops working, and an ABS FAIL lights will light up.

But don't forget it's a last resort measure.....the other option is to not lock up your brakes and spin or slide in to something while hearing and feeling the ABS pump working.....thinking DO'H!!!!!!!!

jml · 11-04-2009, 07:17 PM

Jeeze, you all must be gods on the track. It's a totally different animal to threshhold brake without ABS. I've been off many times in race cars that don't have ABS.

Radiation Joe · 11-05-2009, 07:34 AM

I understand that there are competition grade ABS systems that do allow you to lock all four wheels. I think Porsche has one and possibly BMW. I believe the cost is astronomical. Any knowledge of this out there?

Gearhead999s · 11-05-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I understand that there are competition grade ABS systems that do allow you to lock all four wheels. I think Porsche has one and possibly BMW. I believe the cost is astronomical. Any knowledge of this out there?

I have allways wondered why ABS systems did not have a default when you stood on the pedal to allow full line pressure at the wheels when full pedal pressure was applied.I remember 1 really hairy time after spinning in a C5 Corvette and going backwards with a hard pedal & no braking force.That is the only time that I can recall ABS causing a safety issue but I suppose being able to shut it off would be a good idea if you could actually do it or remember to do it in the the middle of a spin.

consolidated · 11-05-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I understand that there are competition grade ABS systems that do allow you to lock all four wheels. I think Porsche has one and possibly BMW. I believe the cost is astronomical. Any knowledge of this out there?

A few of us looked into this for Caymans due to a continual soft pedal and also 'ice mode' with the stock ABS when running Hoosiers. The estimates were around $10K installed for a Bosch Motorsport ABS controller or a TEVES MK60. It required a new partial harness, yaw sensors, and wheel speed sensors.
There was discussion about having to go to an aftermarket ECU and harness such as MOTEC and ditch the stock DME, not for the faint of heart.

signes · 11-05-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

BTW, I've done this in a race where I completed a 360 with both feet in and continued without losing my position (downhill coming out of the cyclone at Thunderhill in a non-ABS car).

Nice work Danny...

Gearhead999s · 11-05-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signes

Nice work Danny...

But was it a spin & win?

lucid · 11-05-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

BTW, I've done this in a race where I completed a 360 with both feet in and continued without losing my position (downhill coming out of the cyclone at Thunderhill in a non-ABS car).

Sounds like you really got the car to rotate there. You must have been on a square setup or something!

Seriously, I saw the exact same thing happen in a club race at Tremblant this summer, but it happened in the middle of a tight pack. Amazingly, there was no contact, and the guy kept on going...

Radiation Joe · 11-05-2009, 02:43 PM

Just for clarification:

I was in some traffic. Everyone gets on the binders when someone in front spins, unless they know they can get by without getting clipped. The track was wide there, and the inside line was clear.

I didn't lose a spot because I believe I was in last place already.

Griz · 11-05-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I didn't lose a spot because I believe I was in last place already.

11-03-2009, 07:03 PM	#1
JuniorM3 Captain 134 Rep 204 Posts Drives: BMW F13 M6 CP GT3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ethiopia iTrader: (0)	ABS kill switch for experienced drivers on track, anyone?? I had an ABS Kill switch in my E46 M3. It's great for trackdays and even better for drifting track day's (Yes, WE have special driftin' trackday's in Europe ) In the E46 i took fuse 33 out and put the switch in. And put the switch in the dash. When you spin, flick the switch, kill the ABS and lock up your brakes at the right moment to keep you beloved M3 out of the wall or wherever. I have a trackday next sunday and wanna put it in my E92 M3 again. Didn't check the fuse chart yet. Please don't respond to this post if you don't know/or doubt this advanced driving technique with locking up the brakes etc... Anybody have this, and on witch fuse? __________________ F13 M6 CP GT3 \| Mineral White \| 20'' BC Forged Center Locks \| Fully Loaded \| JB4/Meth \| Custom GT3 Widebody Kit + Aero \| Catless DP/X-Pipe \| Turner StrackSport Discs/Pagid Brake Pads \|
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

11-04-2009, 09:39 AM	#2
Radiation Joe Veni Vidi Vici 89 Rep 2,750 Posts Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Macungie PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50] 2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00]	Nice idea. I asked about this many times when I had my e46. Having ABS put me into a wall has been one of my biggest fears for a long time (all the way back to my '90 Taurus SHO). I don't believe anyone has the clarity of thought to hit the switch in the middle of a spin, but I can see turning off the ABS completely for track days (Says the man who tracks with DSC on). The risk of locking up a rear while trail braking some corners is there, however.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-04-2009, 04:40 PM	#5
Gearhead999s Major General 815 Rep 7,887 Posts Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M2C R1200GS Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	I actually like having the ABS on as it does allow a lot more trail braking than without it working.On my E30 racecar we used to turn the ABS off only at tracks like Mosport were you needed to be able to lock it down in a spin to avoid the many walls around there.Not sure either about hitting a switch to disable in the middle of a spin though.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-04-2009, 06:05 PM	#9
consolidated Lieutenant Colonel 205 Rep 1,864 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Texas iTrader: (2) Garage List 2016 Porsche GT4 [0.00] 1999 Porsche Spec B ... [0.00] 2014 Ram 1500 Laram ... [0.00] 2007 Porsche GT3 RS [10.00] 2013 Tesla Model S 85 [0.00]	Is it really this simple to bypass the ABS system without possible side affects to the other systems?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-04-2009, 07:17 PM	#11
jml Major 128 Rep 1,144 Posts Drives: X5M, GT3RS, GT4 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (3)	Jeeze, you all must be gods on the track. It's a totally different animal to threshhold brake without ABS. I've been off many times in race cars that don't have ABS.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-05-2009, 07:34 AM	#12
Radiation Joe Veni Vidi Vici 89 Rep 2,750 Posts Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Macungie PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50] 2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00]	I understand that there are competition grade ABS systems that do allow you to lock all four wheels. I think Porsche has one and possibly BMW. I believe the cost is astronomical. Any knowledge of this out there?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-05-2009, 02:43 PM	#18
Radiation Joe Veni Vidi Vici 89 Rep 2,750 Posts Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Macungie PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50] 2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00]	Just for clarification: I was in some traffic. Everyone gets on the binders when someone in front spins, unless they know they can get by without getting clipped. The track was wide there, and the inside line was clear. I didn't lose a spot because I believe I was in last place already.
	Appreciate 0 Quote