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06-25-2013, 10:11 PM | #67 |
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makes me wonder if i should change up my set up on my 650 kit to get even more power out of it>.....mhmmm
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06-26-2013, 02:34 AM | #69 | |
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There is a pic posted earlier in this thread. Again, the 16.5/16.5 are only the peak numbers. Throughout a huge chunk of the rev range, its more like 25-30HP gains, and 20-26 TQ. That's where the gains are the most important I'm still in disbelief. lol.
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06-26-2013, 05:59 AM | #70 |
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Larger diameter pipes (as this system) are ideal for SC cars that push much more volume through the exhaust than NA. Its an appropriate assumption that systems like the Akra Evo were not engineered to be paired with a SC. Though the Akra Evo is less restrictive than the stock system, it has its limitation due to diameter size. I'm not convinced that this system would be ideal for NA, as I've seen over large diameter piping cause power loss, especially on the low end on a NA motor.
Impressive to say the least!
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06-26-2013, 07:43 AM | #71 | |
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Thanks for the heads up. Be fine on a non-boosted M3?
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06-26-2013, 10:17 AM | #73 | |
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Cool OP. Nice looking unit. Car looks sick also. Still have a thing for Dakar Yellow since the DTMPower days and Dado's sick E36.
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AA built a 3" version of their system for a customer and the result was less output. |
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06-26-2013, 10:25 AM | #74 | |
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06-26-2013, 12:23 PM | #75 | |
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The Akrapovic Evolution and GT4 mid-sections are not 2.25" I.D. systems. They are 2.375". The MRF system is for the most part a 2.5" I.D. mid-section. In regards to volumetric flow and capacity, dual 2.25" pipes are more than capable of handling over 600 RWHP. The volume of an exhaust pipe is calculated as a cylinder. To calculate the volume of a cylinder, the formula is: V= πR² x H (in this case, H will be Length and represent the length of the exhaust system) Known variables: Length = 80" (length of mid-section) Radius = Diameter/2 = 1.125" And of course, the mathematical constant of Pi TOTAL VOLUME = 318 (now this must be multiplied by 2 because there are 2 pipes) = 636 (for comparison sake, a single 3" exhaust which can handle 575 RWHP happily, has a total volume of 565.) Volume of a SINGLE 3.5" exhaust: (which many of us engine builders know that its capable of handling 700 RWHP easily) Known variables: Length = 80" (length of mid-section) Radius = Diameter/2 = 1.75" Mathematical constant of Pi TOTAL VOLUME = 769 Volume of a 2.5" I.D. mid-section (again dual pipes) Known variables: Length = 80" (length of mid-section) Radius = Diameter/2 = 1.25 Mathematical constant of Pi TOTAL VOLUME (must be multiplied by 2) = 784 Volume of Akrapovic Evolution/GT4 mid-section Known variables: Length = 80" (length of mid-section) Radius = Diameter/2 = 1.1875" Mathematical constant of Pi TOTAL VOLUME (must be multiplied by 2) = 708 Now with all this said, the point here was not to demonstrate the differences in volume, it's only to help understand what each diamter means in regards to total volumetric capacity in the system. 2.25" dual systems are more than adequate for the 4.0L S65 M3, even when highly strung out. Now, lets make this clear, the Akrapovic is not 2.25", it is 2.375". The stock M3 mid-section is an odd size, it is somewhere between 2.375" and 2.5", it is also not 2.25". The factory mid-section has one part that is 2.25", and that is the first 2" coming off the front flange to create room for the o2 sensor bung. Now back on topic to the MRF Velaforza mid-section..... The pipe was designed for N/A applications and we also knew and tested it on high forced induced applications to see its capabilities. As mentioned earlier in my first post, we tried larger diameter piping on S/C'd cars (3") and saw no appreciable gain, and only lost low end torque. In N/A form, the car simply did not like the 3" version. In N/A form, comparing peak RWHP and peak RWTQ, produces 28 RWHP and 22 RWTQ over stock, and in the mid-range, produces a delta of more than 32 RWHP and 40 RWTQ. The most produced by any E9x system we are aware of. If some are experiencing that 2.5" systems are not sufficient for their cars power output, I suggest looking at replacing your rear section exhaust system with something that retains the volumetric capacity of the mid-section, as many of the systems out there shrink down the perforated sections inside the muffler assemblies to reduce drone and unwanted frequencies. The Akrapovic rear section does a great job at maintaining this capacity. -Malek
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06-27-2013, 01:34 AM | #76 | |
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Thanks Soorena. Very kind words.
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06-27-2013, 01:45 AM | #77 |
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The X-pipe (midpipe, same thing) is $1999 U.S. Not sure how much the FULL system costs (mid and rear) since I don't have the full system. But I think the full system is less than 4k.
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06-27-2013, 07:58 AM | #78 | ||
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06-29-2013, 09:46 AM | #79 |
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I have to admit that I didn't see these top end gains coming esquire.
The largest benefit I saw with the data available to me before making the purchase back jn Oct was how much low end torque increases with this x-pipe. Like I've said before, with the blower and stock exhaust, WOT acceleration at low RPM was still disappointing to me. After installation of the exhaust, the difference in low-end grunt was so significant that it rendered my "power" button completely useless as going WOT would just spin the tires. Too much throttle sensitivity and too much torque and not enough tire. Oh well disabling the power button is an easy solution. The gains up top are just gravy.
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06-29-2013, 03:37 PM | #80 | |
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However, there are variables that the dyno is not aware of which is the DME itself which will fluctuate the ignition timing and AFR depending on environment and adaption values. Ignition timing can make a huge difference on it's own as many have seen. Without logging ignition timing really the results are somewhat crude for comparisons sake. What is also not often logged is the actual inlet temperature. Again, this directly effects AFR and ignition angle. For a true test, these variables must be logged and shown. Let me give you an independent example from Italy, Supersprint. Stock E92 M3 vs Supersprint X Pipe (High Flow CATs) and Rear Exhaust A massive +36rwhp However, is it a completely fair test? Well... yes and no. They are using SAE correction factors here however SAE just could not compensate enough. It corrected for the delta of 6 degC in both ambient and inlet temperature BUT could not take into account the difference in ignition timing. Let us look a little further at the ignition timing: Baseline run: You can see the ignition timing (Zundung) runs at around 33deg midrange and around 28deg high rpm. Supersprint full system Run: Igniting timing at the higher rpm is 2 degrees higher and around the same in the midrange. After 5000rpm it is always higher than the base line run. The temperatures were higher with the stock run and this was out of Supersprints' control. The DME decided to run slightly lower timing. So, this amazingly higher gain in power is not just down to the exhaust system itself but the difference in temperature and eventually the amount of ignition timing. So the results even in this tightly controlled test are still slightly skewed. Now, consider this. If the tests were done with the conditions reversed the gains would be less than they should be. I do have an example of this if anyone would like to see it. Notice that on both tests the barometric pressure and humidity are almost equal. SAE is doing it's best but cannot compensate for what the DME is doing. We all know that a stock car can run at least 30deg timing and even sometimes 32 if the conditions are right. Hope this adds a new dimension to dyno testing for you guys. Last edited by Sales@Evolve; 06-29-2013 at 04:17 PM.. |
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06-29-2013, 04:04 PM | #81 | |
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Very nice Malek. I am sure you have earned the respect of not only the members here but also sponsors/tuners/etc. It is very nice to see finally see someone confirm the difference in X Pipes, High quality CAT's vs No CAT's and especially mentioning that unless the primary restriction of the header outlet is removed changing anything after this is not beneficial. Agree with most of what you say. Hopefully we will see you post more often. |
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06-29-2013, 04:12 PM | #82 |
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Good stuff Sal
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06-29-2013, 05:43 PM | #83 | ||
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Excellent info. EAS (dynojet operator) actually logs ignition, IATs, AFRs, etc. The data is in the drf files. So maybe esquire can post those up as well to see more info about what is going on with these 2 runs.
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06-29-2013, 06:29 PM | #84 | |
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Thats great news. Depends if the datalink was enabled at the time. These dyno's are becoming more and more appealing. |
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07-01-2013, 02:23 PM | #85 |
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Just talked to Malek@MRF today. Looks like there's been so much demand generated for his midpipe, that it's gonna go back into limited production.
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07-01-2013, 03:21 PM | #86 | |
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It is good to read about the method/design/manufacturing you utilized during the R&D process of this X-pipe and it looks like it really paid off. I have major respect for shops such as yours that go out of the way to connect with the community about your products. That is great to hear. Wish i wasn't saving up for some major big ticket items otherwise i would definitely jump on this!
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07-01-2013, 04:44 PM | #87 |
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Thanks for the information. Considering its made of SS and there are no resonators or cats on it that would add cost I hope there is some sort of group buy. Who ever made 2k the standard for any quality x-pipe should be shunned
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07-01-2013, 04:49 PM | #88 | |
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