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09-14-2007, 05:48 PM | #45 |
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Depends how you rationalise M now, I suppose. If you mean as a maker of GT cars, then I guess the older, less technically contrived E39 would be more involved than the E92 on EDC. It's all moot though because I don't see any Audi's on that list
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09-14-2007, 06:16 PM | #47 |
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09-14-2007, 06:23 PM | #48 |
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09-14-2007, 07:31 PM | #49 |
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Like they said, it was an icon. Probably the best all-around 4-door sedan ever made.
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09-14-2007, 09:52 PM | #50 | |
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09-14-2007, 10:15 PM | #51 |
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South, I completely agree with you, but no technological argument to prove it, I am a bit dissapointed?....Like a technological argument is ever going to change the minds of the bias enthusiasts that we are. Nothing ever seems to change your mind.
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09-14-2007, 10:18 PM | #52 | |
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Technology?
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So I don't doubt the basic conclusion - there is something isolating about the feel of the car. I certainly can't say as I have not driven it. I just struggle a bit with the explanation of the culprit being "technology". |
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09-15-2007, 12:23 AM | #53 | |
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For years BMW has steadfastly refused to do an M7, claiming that the size and weight of such a car wouldn't fit the ///M brand philosophy. The current M5 and M6 are bigger than the earlier 7ers they refused the convert to M. The fact that the E60 and E63 are more portly then older 7ers yet somehow qualify for ///M treatment shows you just how much the brand has been compromised
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09-15-2007, 12:38 AM | #54 | |
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I am still not sure this is really the case - has anybody found any facts to support that EDC-C (sometimes referred to as EDC-III+) works this way? And furthermore, BMW has never said that the E92 M3's EDC IS EDC-C - it may actually be a generation newer than what has shown up on newer BMWs, or a specifically tuned version of EDC-C just for the E92 M3. And why would standard shocks/dampers feel better than EDC anyway? If I'm not mistaken F1 used active shocks for years, and they only had one type of "road" to deal with. Call the setting "active stiff". Correct me if I'm wrong but active shocks/dampers/suspension were used until catastrophic failures killed Aryton Senna (and others I don't recall - not a huge fan). Surely they saw an advantage?
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09-15-2007, 12:48 AM | #55 |
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I take it you've owned one and know? What did you replace it with? I think the migration path of car ownership tells you as much about what you value as much as the actual cars you've owned.
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09-15-2007, 02:20 AM | #56 | |
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I don't miss a leaky sunroof. I don't miss semi-trailing arm rear suspensions. Yes it was involving that the car could snap and kill you at a moments notice. However, thats not really the imvolvement I want. I don't miss manual gearboxes. I don't miss non-abs brakes I don't miss having to rev the crap out of the car to get reasonable acceleration. I don't miss manual windows, seats, or headlights. I don't miss getting lost and wishing I had a way to get directions. The GPS means never having to ask again. I don't get the hangup on the E30 M3 or E39 M5. They were great cars for their day. But by todays standards, a new civic could probably kick their ass at the track. So you have all the anoyances of a old car and none of the upside. |
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09-15-2007, 02:45 AM | #57 | |
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I'm also an E39 M5 owner who didn't make the switch to the E60 for the same reasons as you posted (weight & too much technology) and I'm looking at the E92 M3 as the replacement for the E39. I've been looking for a while for a replacement for the E39 M5 which is doing me well but starting to get a little old. I want pretty much the same experience as the E39 M5 but a car that is a bit more nimble in the corners. Its good to hear that I'm not the only one thinking this way. The new M3 is not that much smaller than than the E39 and looks a lot better, but I only wish it had 3 seats in the back - it certainly has the space to seat three small adults or kids. |
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09-15-2007, 02:50 AM | #58 | |
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You are quite right, this nostalgic thing can get totally out of hand, the E90 M3 and E95 M5 will be as old as the Model T Ford eventually! Progress is what it's all about. It's why we are all on these boards. Progress is exactly what happens in the F1 world; the main technical attraction. |
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09-15-2007, 03:27 AM | #59 |
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Considering these are two of the top 4 M cars, I very much doubt either would struggle against a Civic, especially the E30 in Sport Evo guise.
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09-15-2007, 04:14 AM | #60 |
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I think the problem is that we live in a world now where a car can be both at home on the track and at home as a daily driver.
We are all trying to lump the M3 into one category like GT or Racer. When really the M3 could fall into several different categories depending on how you have the car setup or even how you drive the car. Those of you that want a GT will get it. Based on the ring time alone it sounds like those of you that want a track car will get that too. Jason
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09-15-2007, 08:08 AM | #61 | |
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09-15-2007, 09:06 AM | #62 | |
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And this is exactly what I want in my new ///M. Dinan certainly seems to imply between the lines that as a pure track car the new M3 takes a small step away from M3s of old, but is more capable of being more things to more people in more situations. IMHO if you are going to get a car like this then EDC is almost non-optional as it completes the package and extends the range of the car's capabilities. Many people here are under the impression (or at least hoping) that a non-EDC M3 will be step closer (as a track car) to what M3s of old used to be. I'm not sure this will be the case, and is the reason for my posts regarding it.
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09-15-2007, 10:31 AM | #63 | |
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Best regards, south |
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09-15-2007, 12:43 PM | #64 | |
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The only exception I can think of in the E92 M3, without having driven it, is perhaps the steering and how that is managed. Is it a direct mechanical linkage, or is there some kind of a sensor/servo break in the loop? If it is the latter, I can maybe understand the reported numb steering feel at center. If it is the former, I am wondering if there is too much damping in the steering system. And, I can see how speed sensitive steering assist can be annoying--I'd much rather have constant low input assist at all vehicle speeds at the expense of not being able to turn the wheel with my finger while parallel parking--but I don't see how that can be contributing to the reported numb steering feel at the center. |
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09-15-2007, 01:31 PM | #65 | |
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I've asked Steve to explain why he felt the E39 made it into the top 4 and for some reason it appears that you take that to mean I don't believe it deserves to be there. A question is different than an opinion Rvacha... |
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09-15-2007, 05:27 PM | #66 |
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