1st to 2nd grind at high rpm

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by argonboy

Not really. I was getting this quite severely and I know 2 other M3s getting that as well, not severely ONLY when shifting fast. It has happened to me a BUNCH of times with the clutch TO THE FLOOR..

What you can do is wait longer for it to warm up, and shift with 1/2sec between the gears. I've had this happen a 10min after oil and coolant were up to temp.

I've owned 2 other manuals and have driven many, including at 1/4 mi tracks without any sort of grind.

If it happens constantly even after it's well warmed up, I'd have them look at the clutch. They actually replaced mine and it was functioning PERFECTLY except for this and sometimes not letting me get out of gear smoothly. See when you try to pull it out of a gear with the clutch fully in (warmed up of course) if you feel abnormal resistance.

OK, let me see if I understand you. You got a loud grinding on first to 2nd shifts with the car warmed up and when not driving/shifting aggressively. However, you also noticed that 2nd gear would disengage roughly. Your dealer changed the clutch (not any synchro) and that fixed the problem. Is that accurate? Thanks!

[John@BMW]

i have the same issue- I work for bmw and have had multiple techs as well as my shop foreman drive the car and my car grinds from 1st to 2nd gear at high rpm.

It sounds like i have a bent shift fork. Sometimes, my car will stick in 2nd gear and will not come out-

other times, it will not engage 1st gear.

All of the other car enthusiasts at work made fun of me until it happened to them too- now they are all saying it needs a transmission.....

I just have to shift 'quickly' from 1st to 2nd and 90% of the time, it will go into 2nd.

I can shift from 2nd to 3rd gear as fast as i want with no issues-

[MMMorish]

I tried starting a thread about this about 2 weeks ago when this happened to me the first time and I didn't get any informative responses like the ones I'm reading here.

This has happened to me twice, once 2 weeks ago and once last night. I was actually a bit worried because I've been driving manual cars since I got my license 12 years ago and have had 4 daily drivers all manual.

Now that I know it might not be my fault, rather the tranny itself my question is, what damage will this do to the tranny? Will BMW do anything about it if I bring it in to service it?

[jm1234]

If the 2nd gear synchro were bad or was going bad you should notice it anytime you shift into 2nd gear when the transmission guts were not spinning at the proper rate for the driveshaft speed. Sometimes that should happen with 3 to 2 shifts also. If it's only 1 to 2 and your shifting "real fast" you may just have the order wrong (clutch in, shift, clutch out).

[MMMorish]

Originally Posted by jm1234

If the 2nd gear synchro were bad or was going bad you should notice it anytime you shift into 2nd gear when the transmission guts were not spinning at the proper rate for the driveshaft speed. Sometimes that should happen with 3 to 2 shifts also. If it's only 1 to 2 and your shifting "real fast" you may just have the order wrong (clutch in, shift, clutch out).

I'm pretty sure the order was just right.

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by MMMorish

I'm pretty sure the order was just right.

Yeah, super embarassing when it happened at the auto X with the instructor in the car. He's like, "happens to the best of us." But my foot was on the floor when I tried to put it into 2nd.

It seems likely that I'm rushing the process, though. At least that's the belief system I'm subscribed to currently.

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

2nd gear synchro?

Yep, first signs of it I bet!

Also could be partial depression of the clutch pedal.

[gemini330zhp]

Is this symptom known as the famous Bmw clutch delay?

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

Yep, first signs of it I bet!

Also could be partial depression of the clutch pedal.

Well, I've never launched my car or do burn outs. It's never had a track day, and had two autocrosses where you never shift back into first. So if it's the second gear synchro, then it's my shop folks joy riding.

And the clutch was all the way in. Really. I explicitly checked when it happened again.

[oneginee]

mmm... poor shifting in the M3 6MT is probably not due to OP error or transmission synchro but one of these:

- clutch pedal not adjusted correctly. If the control from the clutch pedal to the clutch throw bearing is hydraulic then I would suspect that somehow even with the clutch pedal floored the clutch is not fully disengaged. This can be adjusted.

-the problem might be in the clutch itself. Here BMW is inovating with a self adjusting double disc clutch. It is not really two discs but one with a hollow cast to better dissipate heat. side by side it is the same clutch as in the M5, or M6 MT but with a hollow disc. A common cause of poor shifting is a bent disc due to damage upon installation. Not putting 2 + 2 together here but this would fit these symptoms.

What you should do:
Don't forget to break in the clutch for 200 to 300 miles of mellow usage with no racing or spirited driving to get good contact areas between all clutch parts.

As to why this happens between 1 and 2. Well it is the largest difference between two consecutive gear changes. At 100% coupling the wheels have to spin 67% faster ar the same engine speed going from 1 to 2 but only 51% faster from 2 to 3, 32% faster from 3 to 4, etc..

[quackbury]

Is there a CDV valve in the M3 M/T, like there is in other BMW's? (E39, E60, etc.?) Haven't seen any posts on it here, but then I'm pretty new to the board. Wondering if a CDV delete would solve this problem?

[MMMorish]

Okay, so let's assume that it is the clutch or the 2nd gear syrchro like some are suggesting, what do I tell my SA and will they do anything about it?

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by MMMorish

Okay, so let's assume that it is the clutch or the 2nd gear syrchro like some are suggesting, what do I tell my SA and will they do anything about it?

Right, b/c, at least for me, it's rare enough that a.) I don't want to try replicate it, and b.) I certainly don't want them trying to replicate it!

So, unless it happens consistently or there are other symptoms (not disengaging smoothly as someone else suggested), I'm not sure what the best tactic would be. Sorry, that's not exactly super helpful.

[kbk_75]

OK, I've read through everyone's responses, and it's time for me to say "me too".

I had this happen to me TWICE today, both times I was shifting fast from 1st to 2nd pretty much nearing redline. Both times it made a horrible grinding sound once she was already in 2nd gear. Both times the clutch pedal was all the way to the floor. Car was fully up to temp, had been driving for over half an hour in Indian heat when it happened.

I've been driving manuals all my life and once or twice in the past I've thought it could've been driver error, today I am almost 100% sure there is a problem of some sort here.

[MrHarris]

I get the same thing. Happened in my e46 as well.

[John@BMW]

I am almost contemplating changing gear box oil to see if I can get any different results.

A week ago, i could not get my car into 2nd gear if i shifted after 3500 rpm.

All of my other BMWs (all manual) have shifted horrible with the factory fluid in them. After switching to redline or royal purple, the transmission shifts how you think it would shift.

My 130,000 mile 540i is butter into every gear at any rpm at any shift speed. You can power-shift any gear as fast as you want and it will go in ALL the time.

Even though i work for a bmw dealership, i dont want to swap the fluid yet since I may be seeing if i can get this trans changed.... I will be contacting my RTE to see what he says about this...... Its crazy!

Im curious to see if the e60 m5 manual trans grinds from 1st to 2nd like the m3 does......

[AJBoston]

I'm also in the "this sometimes happens to me" camp. I'd say probably 6 or 7 times since I've owned the car. Always when it's cold. Always 1-2 upshift. Sometimes also get a notchy feel upshifting from 2-3, as if something's not lining up right.

Have been toying with bringing it into the dealer, but don't want to go through the whole "we can't find anything wrong with it" charade. Anybody else tried yet?

[farbarg]

Originally Posted by AJBoston

I'm also in the "this sometimes happens to me" camp. I'd say probably 6 or 7 times since I've owned the car. Always when it's cold. Always 1-2 upshift. Sometimes also get a notchy feel upshifting from 2-3, as if something's not lining up right.

Have been toying with bringing it into the dealer, but don't want to go through the whole "we can't find anything wrong with it" charade. Anybody else tried yet?

I mentioned it on my mid-interval oil change, but they pretty much ignored it. Not like I want them trying to reproduce it. Unless, like a previous comment, it wouldn't engage consistently, I hold out little hope. Since this seems to happen to a number of folks, it may just be a design "feature."

[SRC]

Mine was very notchy feeling when new and I was disappointed because this was my first BMW manual. I'd always read about how smooth BMW manuals were and this was anything but. Now with 5k miles it feels very smooth but from 1-2 and 2-1 it's still a bit stubborn feeling so I've never try to force it. In my old 350z the trannny was notchy as well and changing to Royal Purple, as many do in those cars, worked wonders. I hope one of you guys try it out and report back. If it works... problem solved. To me this feel like lubrication issue…

[kbk_75]

There's no doubt that the shift from 1st -> 2nd is notchy, but the issue I've been bothered by is much more than just notchiness. It's like a horrible grinding that's happened maybe 5-6 times in 16 months, and TWICE in the space of ten minutes last week, with a fully warmed-up car and both times I am SURE the clutch was all the way in, so it was not me being over-zealous.

[daltonnnn]

With everyone having these problems, I claim not so good transmission for the BMWs. My friend with a 335i says he has the same problem that we have with the warming up grinding and 1st to 2nd shifting. Tranny isn't doing it for me.......

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by John@BMW

i have the same issue- I work for bmw and have had multiple techs as well as my shop foreman drive the car and my car grinds from 1st to 2nd gear at high rpm.

It sounds like i have a bent shift fork. Sometimes, my car will stick in 2nd gear and will not come out-

other times, it will not engage 1st gear.

All of the other car enthusiasts at work made fun of me until it happened to them too- now they are all saying it needs a transmission.....

I just have to shift 'quickly' from 1st to 2nd and 90% of the time, it will go into 2nd.

I can shift from 2nd to 3rd gear as fast as i want with no issues-

I've had this problem with multiple BMW's. I've felt this problem on 4 different BMW's. From an e46 330i, e46 m3, e90 335, and both of my e92 m3's. It's only from 1st to 2nd and when you shift pretty fast and with abrupt force. I was beginning to feel this was normal, I really hope I wouldn't have to replace my transmission over this.