Blown motors, Rod Bearing failure S65 Registry.

[VCMpower]

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by e92zero

I sometimes wonder if the BMW engine was really designed with a thinner grade oil from the start with the tight tolerance that BMRLVR pointed out. Then another BMW department decided to market and use the 10-60w for the prolonged 15k oil change interval. Would really like to know about the use of thinner oil, especially for some of us that change the oil at 5k or 7.5k.

Take a look here.

I've run a mixture of 5W-30 Redline mixed 50/50 with Redline 40W race oil for the last two runs in my car. The current fill is 10W-40 mixed with the 40W. I want to get in some track time and see how the used oil analysis (UOL) comes back.

[VCMpower]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Take a look here.

I've run a mixture of 5W-30 Redline mixed 50/50 with Redline 40W race oil for the last two runs in my car. The current fill is 10W-40 mixed with the 40W. I want to get in some track time and see how the used oil analysis (UOL) comes back.

Great info. Look forward to the results on the thinner mix.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Take a look here.

I've run a mixture of 5W-30 Redline mixed 50/50 with Redline 40W race oil for the last two runs in my car. The current fill is 10W-40 mixed with the 40W. I want to get in some track time and see how the used oil analysis (UOL) comes back.

Originally Posted by VCMpower

Great info. Look forward to the results on the thinner mix.

I am not at all surprised with these results and I am tempted to start using 0w40 or 5w40 for my next oil change!

If you look at Joe's UOA reports, he is one of the few people who have no lead in his samples.......... I will definitely be sampling my car on the next oil change and may change out to a something in a 40WT and then sample that!

[VCMpower]

This is getting good

[VCMpower]

I have been using Fuchs Titan 10w60 for over 2 years now and I did so as I'm always skeptical of dealer recommendation. Fuchs far exceeds Castrol without getting technical, if you have to know more you can research the 2 and compare. I will have my oil analyzed as well for curiosity. I do like the idea of a lighter oil if these results come back supporting it. Good stuff

[VCMpower]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

I am not at all surprised with these results and I am tempted to start using 0w40 or 5w40 for my next oil change!

If you look at Joe's UOA reports, he is one of the few people who have no lead in his samples.......... I will definitely be sampling my car on the next oil change and may change out to a something in a 40WT and then sample that!

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

I have pointed out what I think is the issue with the S65 "bearings" in a few threads now, but unfortunately someone at M3 post deleted posts as the discussions continued.

There is no major bearing issue with the S65. What the S65 has is oil clearances on the Main and Rod bearings that are in my opinion way too tight. For most engines there will most likely never be an issue, but, with clearances of around 0.001 there is not much room for error on assembly/during machining of the main bearing bores in the block. Basically what I am saying is that on an engine where the alignment of the main bearing bores is out even slightly or a rod has a big end that is even minutely oval shaped (either from manufacturing or by being stretched from an over-rev), there is no room for error at all. If the engine had say 0.002 which is a number that I feel should be a minimum, or even 0.0025 which the number I would like to see (TWS 10W60 is ideal to take advantage of this larger clearance since the viscosity of 60 at operating temp would lend you to believe it could handle a large oil clearance and oil pressure should not suffer) issues with the S65 main and rod "bearings" would be non existent.

So to all of you folks that think that the S65 has a rod bearing issue, that is not in any way shape of form the case, the S65 has a oil clearance issue and unless that is addressed no bearing you put into this engine will solve the problem unless the machine work is done to set the clearances to an acceptable number!

Exactly right. Similar issue with the S54, the clearances are so tight and manufacturing hiccup is a disaster waiting to happen. This is one of those issues where if it doesn't happen under warranty then it won't happen.

I also think that the S65 will have a similar life expectancy of the rod bearings when compared to the S54 ...100k miles. According to a BMW Master Tech...100k miles is about the average life of S54 rod bearings. I plan on doing preventive replacement on my S65 at 100k. I'm guessing blocks and cranks will be scarce and expensive.

I've felt the pain of spinning 3 bearings on my E46 M3.

[Checkcaptain]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Generally speaking, oil pressure does drop as oil clearance increases hence the reason why engines lose oil pressure if main and/or rod bearings are worn excessively.

20-25 PSI is lots of oil pressure at idle (40 PSI actually a fairly high number at idle) if that is even the number that the S65 engine would have at .002". I have never seen anyone test the oil pressure on an S65 with .002" main bearing clearance but would look forward to the numbers. As for your maximum pressure, that is going to be set by the system relief valve......... if the relief is at 80 PSI, once the pump makes enough flow to go over relief it will still achieve that same 80 PSI that you state, it may just take a few more RPM to get there........ the principles of hydraulics are universal pressure is the resistance to flow and more flow equals more pressure. Flow increases as the oil pump RPM increases(oil pump speed is tied directly to engine RPM) which is why there has to be a system relief to protect the system from overpressure since the oiling system on the S65 uses a positive displacement pump.

FYI: Dinan sets the main bearings to .0019" and the rods to .0025" on their strokers....... I obtained this information while shopping for a stroker! Obviously they see an issue with the tight OEM clearances and they don't see an oil pressure issue with adding a bit of clearance to the Mains and Rods since they use an OEM oil pump!

I can confirm that. When we were changing the rod bearings after 20.000km on my stroker and checked the clearance it was 0.063mm,

[VCMpower]

.0024 , good info.

[magicknife]

Hello there I have an e92M3 ie until last Saturday. Initially started off as a light ticking sound at3000 rpm, got louder gradually, so loud that when I phoned BMW emergency service, the could hear it over the phone.

Lucky I have BMW extended warranty I got a courtesy car. As it was over a sat, the BMW technician came over, listened to the sound and said it needs a new engine. So lets see what BMW say. Will keep you posted.
Cheers people

[aus]

Anyone know if BMW is increasing the tolerances on new engines?

[e90m3_6MT]

I had a broken connecting rod few weeks ago that damaged the crank, block and head of the engine. I wonder if the broken rod could have something to do with a bearing issue?

Good thing the car has the extended warranty

There's a brand new crate engine coming from Germany!

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by e90m3_6MT

I wonder if the broken rod could have something to do with a bearing issue?

I would bet my first born this particular rod bearing seized and you threw the rod in question.

Glad to see BMW taking care of you. I hope the fix is up to your satisfaction.

[GIdriver]

Originally Posted by magicknife

Hello there I have an e92M3 ie until last Saturday. Initially started off as a light ticking sound at3000 rpm, got louder gradually, so loud that when I phoned BMW emergency service, the could hear it over the phone.

Lucky I have BMW extended warranty I got a courtesy car. As it was over a sat, the BMW technician came over, listened to the sound and said it needs a new engine. So lets see what BMW say. Will keep you posted.
Cheers people

Thanks for sharing. Just out of curiosity, can you post mileage? Any updates?

[s65e90]

What baffles me (as it seems so simple) is why use such a thick oil on a car w/ such tight tolerances. a thinnner oil would seem to be able to have much better lubrication. But I know that the 10 60 is designed to take a beating; maybe we just don't drive these cars hard enough

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by s65e90

What baffles me (as it seems so simple) is why use such a thick oil on a car w/ such tight tolerances. a thinnner oil would seem to be able to have much better lubrication. But I know that the 10 60 is designed to take a beating; maybe we just don't drive these cars hard enough

Your probably right. Given some of the insane speeds on the Autobahn I'm sure these engines were tested and bedded in those conditions. Also some of us tend the baby the /// engines a lot without driving it the way it should be in the first place. Having said that, there are no public roads outside Germany where you can do such speed, and even if you're a everyday commuter on a high/freeway you will be cruising.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by s65e90

What baffles me (as it seems so simple) is why use such a thick oil on a car w/ such tight tolerances. a thinnner oil would seem to be able to have much better lubrication. But I know that the 10 60 is designed to take a beating; maybe we just don't drive these cars hard enough

Even a hard driven street car has to start from a dead cold condition and that's where a toight like a toiger motor build can hurt you. Maybe we should all have external F1-style coolant heaters with quick disconnects to keep it at operating temperatures before startup...

[M3NST3R]

The same just happened to me. Im glad this thread is here so BMW service cant act like this only happened to me. I have a babied 47k miles 2008 bmw m3 and this just happened. they are asking me to pay 26K +++ for a new engine. I will be showing this to my lawyer and work on getting them to cover it. I complained of engine noise so many times throughout the 4 years of warranty and they always came back with no problems with the car. i even had them do a final service before the warranty and yet again no one picked up anything supposedly. Its messed up between myself and my family we have owned over a dozen bmw's and they better make it right.

I'll post it with a video tomorrow and ad it to here for others who get told they need to pay 26k to get their car back after spending a lot on this car and taking care of it like a baby for the last 4 years. No engine mods, never raced, only put 4k miles in the last 12 months.

As soon as warranty expires. 2k miles later then engine blows for no reason.

[M3NST3R]

The same just happened to me. Im glad this thread is here so BMW service cant act like this only happened to me. I have a babied 47k miles 2008 bmw m3 and this just happened. they are asking me to pay 26K +++ for a new engine. I will be showing this to my lawyer and work on getting them to cover it. I complained of engine noise so many times throughout the 4 years of warranty and they always came back with no problems with the car. i even had them do a final service before the warranty and yet again no one picked up anything supposedly. Its messed up between myself and my family we have owned over a dozen bmw's and they better make it right.

I'll post it with a video tomorrow and ad it to here for others who get told they need to pay 26k to get their car back after spending a lot on this car and taking care of it like a baby for the last 4 years. No engine mods, never raced, only put 4k miles in the last 12 months.

As soon as warranty expires. 2k miles later then engine blows for no reason.

[VCMpower]

Originally Posted by M3NST3R

The same just happened to me. Im glad this thread is here so BMW service cant act like this only happened to me. I have a babied 47k miles 2008 bmw m3 and this just happened. they are asking me to pay 26K +++ for a new engine. I will be showing this to my lawyer and work on getting them to cover it. I complained of engine noise so many times throughout the 4 years of warranty and they always came back with no problems with the car. i even had them do a final service before the warranty and yet again no one picked up anything supposedly. Its messed up between myself and my family we have owned over a dozen bmw's and they better make it right.

I'll post it with a video tomorrow and ad it to here for others who get told they need to pay 26k to get their car back after spending a lot on this car and taking care of it like a baby for the last 4 years. No engine mods, never raced, only put 4k miles in the last 12 months.

As soon as warranty expires. 2k miles later then engine blows for no reason.

What was the severity of failure? Noises , or did motor lock up?

[mkPOTO]

I have been through this thread and was wondering if someone could link to which video sounds like the bearings are going out? Some of the videos posted sound like normal, but I want to be certain. Heard some noise this morning and nervous it could be the problem