ZCP vs DIY

[signes]

Originally Posted by whaleboy

I'm not so sure about the weight. The e46 ZCP wheels were lighter than the stock e46 19's. I'd like to see the actual weights for the newer ZCP and Stocks.

-David

Some different #s floating around but these are the best I've found.

Style 359M (ZCP) Spun Cast
F: 25.5lbs
R: 28lbs

Source: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...4&postcount=10


Style 220 (OEM 19s) Forged
F: 23lbs
R: 26.5lbs

Keep in mind the 220s are 1/2" narrower. The weights listed for those also come from GregW weighing the wheel and tire together, then subtracting published tire weight. Might be off by ~.5lb. E46 ZCPs were around 25F/27R IIRC, but again were narrower than the 359.

[aus]

The new EDC is suppose to be active in the Sport mode too, where the standard EDC is active in the Normal mode only.

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by Milk Run

I'm ordering a new car.

Should I get the ZCP package or just do it myself?

I can order the rims from turner motorsport and then get the tires that I want for about $2000 + $1200 = $3200 total. I can then sell my stock tires and rims for $1000? $1500?

Who has the best price for ZCP rims?
What are the stock 18"s + tires worth?

I don't think that lowering the car 1cm matters to me.

Get the ZCP - wheels are gorgeous!



Did you special order your E46 M3 in Electric Red? I need to see some pics of that! My 330i is Electric Red and I love it.

[Green///Hell]

DIY all day long if you're modding

[JIO]

So is it possible to get the refined DSC and EDU? It's only software, I believe. I could care less about a 10 mm drop, as it is, I have trouble getting up my steep driveway. I do like the ZCP wheels as the offset is different and so you get a wider stance.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by eshtog

Here you go:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ight=Interview

That post is the one that I was thinking of, and seems to confirm exactly what I said, right?

MPW: How is the EDC in the Competition Package different from that in the serial production vehicle?

Wänninger: In the BMW M3 Competition Package damping in the Sport mode is now regulated too - in the serial production model it is based on a fixed level.

Only the sport mode has changed. The other modes are not effected.

[advans]

The ZCP Package is def a good buy.

I debated to get EDC+OEM19s rather than the ZCP package, but ended up ordering ZCP. The wheels alone are gorgeous, the slightly lowered suspension is just about right.

Also, it differentiates itself among the other M3s as a M3 ZCP!


*edit* btw, its "en route to preparation center!" so excited!

[Trier Germany]

IMHO ZCP is a big waste of dollars! It's all BMW marketing hype! How much faster can you get around the Nordschleife a few tenths? This package evolved to quiet the North American market for not getting the M3 GTS. I do believe the ZCP wheels look pheonominal! but they are severely under tired they should have M# GTS size rubber! 255-35-19 F & 285-30-19 R. Should get BMW performance seats! and Alcantera interior!

My car has EDC and it's a joke! I wished it had a delete feature when I ordered my car and I could have used the extra $$$$ on my new coilovers.

[Eau Rouge]

Originally Posted by signes

Some different #s floating around but these are the best I've found.

Style 359M (ZCP) Spun Cast
F: 25.5lbs
R: 28lbs

Source: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...4&postcount=10


Style 220 (OEM 19s) Forged
F: 23lbs
R: 26.5lbs

Keep in mind the 220s are 1/2" narrower. The weights listed for those also come from GregW weighing the wheel and tire together, then subtracting published tire weight. Might be off by ~.5lb. E46 ZCPs were around 25F/27R IIRC, but again were narrower than the 359.

Turner Motorsports says this:

A set of Genuine BMW Competition wheels (19 inch STYLE 359) for the 2008+ E9X M3, including E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe, and E93 M3 convertible. These are the real deal, authentic BMW wheels, as come on the 2011 M3 Competition package (option code "ZCP"). The wheel set includes 2 front wheels (BMW # 36112284055) and 2 rear wheels (BMW # 36112284060). These wheels offer factory-perfect fitment, amazing looks and ultra-strong design and manufacturing. Pre order yours today and be the first in your city to have them. Delivery is expected Mid April. (You wont be charged till they ship to you)

The E9X M3 Competition Wheel Set includes the following:
(2) Front Wheels - 19x9" ET31 (25.4 LBS, 31mm offset) - BMW Part # 36-11-2-284-055
(2) Rear Wheels - 19x10" ET25 (26.6 LBS, 25mm offset) - BMW Pat # 36-11-2-284-060

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...-WHEEL-PACKAGE

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by aajami

The 359Ms are definitely heavier than the 220s, but only marginally so.

I may be wrong, but I think the E46 CSL/ZCPs weren't forged either, and were also heavier than their 19" counterparts. This is a case of history repeating itself.

While that might be the case, I don't think the E46 CSL itself used those cast wheels, did it? Why would they put heavier wheels on the lightweight car? If I remember correctly, this caused some degree of debate as to whether the ZCP wheels were the same as the CSL wheels. Initially, it was determined that they were not the same (and they carried different style numbers to back that up) - instead they merely just looked the same. And the CSL wheels were priced much higher, not readily obtainable, etc. - you know, the usual issues as far as getting parts from limited production cars. But later, as I recall it, people claimed that BMW switched to using the same wheel that the CSL had used for the ZCP package.

None of that really matters too much, but it does beg some very curious questions. First, is the E92 M3 GTS using cast wheels (style 359M), or are they actually a lightweight forged wheel that the 359M was merely styled after? And if the former, then why heavier wheels on the track-ready lightweight bazillion dollar car?? And if the latter, then how does one get a set of true GTS wheels?

Oh and, of course, we cannot forget that the 359M wheels are wider than the 220M. How much would a style 220M wheel weigh if it were 1/2 inch wider? That's the number you really need to know when comparing the two.

[signes]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

While that might be the case, I don't think the E46 CSL itself used those cast wheels, did it? Why would they put heavier wheels on the lightweight car? If I remember correctly, this caused some degree of debate as to whether the ZCP wheels were the same as the CSL wheels. Initially, it was determined that they were not the same (and they carried different style numbers to back that up) - instead they merely just looked the same. And the CSL wheels were priced much higher, not readily obtainable, etc. - you know, the usual issues as far as getting parts from limited production cars. But later, as I recall it, people claimed that BMW switched to using the same wheel that the CSL had used for the ZCP package.

None of that really matters too much, but it does beg some very curious questions. First, is the E92 M3 GTS using cast wheels (style 359M), or are they actually a lightweight forged wheel that the 359M was merely styled after? And if the former, then why heavier wheels on the track-ready lightweight bazillion dollar car?? And if the latter, then how does one get a set of true GTS wheels?

Oh and, of course, we cannot forget that the 359M wheels are wider than the 220M. How much would a style 220M wheel weigh if it were 1/2 inch wider? That's the number you really need to know when comparing the two.

ZCP rears were the same PN as the CSL rears. CSL fronts were 0.5" wider and thus had a different PN but were constructed the same way.

Not sure about the GTS but I mentioned the differences in width in my post about weight. Unfortunately a little more complex than just taking proportionate weights so hard to determine what they would be. Nevertheless, with the weights posted I was surprised how heavy they are.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by signes

ZCP rears were the same PN as the CSL rears. CSL fronts were 0.5" wider and thus had a different PN but were constructed the same way.

Not sure about the GTS but I mentioned the differences in width in my post about weight. Unfortunately a little more complex than just taking proportionate weights so hard to determine what they would be. Nevertheless, with the weights posted I was surprised how heavy they are.

Thanks signes.

If the GTS uses the cast wheels (and it sounds like it probably does) then I have to wonder why. Some things come to mind. First, what is the lightest set of 19" wheels in the GTS width on the market? I.e. is there a lot of margin there for more weight savings? That question is probably best answered in the master weight savings thread, if indeed wider wheels are even covered there. Secondly, did they even try that hard to get the weight down on the GTS to begin with? I can't remember what all changed (other than obvious stuff like the engine, exhaust, suspension), but if the main goal was to just drop the obviously un-needed stuff like back seats, but to keep most other not-directly-performance-related parts common with the M3, then perhaps shaving relatively small bits of weight here and there was never in the cards to begin with. Even if the latter is true, lighter wheels seems like really low hanging fruit to me, but there are probably tradeoffs.

[positiveions]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I don't think that is possible and here is why:

ZCP does not require ZTP
=> non-ZTP cars do not have MDM DSC mode
=> cars without MDM mode only have DSC OFF and DSC ON
=> You can't get more "off" than OFF

From what I know (don't quote me) the E46 ZCP actually added a third DSC mode (activated by the M Button on the steering wheel, IIRC). For the E9x, that evolved into the MDrive MDM DSC mode, optional on all E9x, ZCP or not.

thanks MK.

[signes]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Thanks signes.

If the GTS uses the cast wheels (and it sounds like it probably does) then I have to wonder why. Some things come to mind. First, what is the lightest set of 19" wheels in the GTS width on the market? I.e. is there a lot of margin there for more weight savings? That question is probably best answered in the master weight savings thread, if indeed wider wheels are even covered there. Secondly, did they even try that hard to get the weight down on the GTS to begin with? I can't remember what all changed (other than obvious stuff like the engine, exhaust, suspension), but if the main goal was to just drop the obviously un-needed stuff like back seats, but to keep most other not-directly-performance-related parts common with the M3, then perhaps shaving relatively small bits of weight here and there was never in the cards to begin with. Even if the latter is true, lighter wheels seems like really low hanging fruit to me, but there are probably tradeoffs.

Agree on lighter wheels but not sure what actual GTS wheels are or what they weight. My RG63s are about the lightest I've seen in 9/19, 10/19. Roughly 20lbs F, 21lbs R. Forged obviously.

[IbanezGod]

ehh take the $2500 and get nice aftermarket wheels that are nicer than the everyday ZCPs. IMO

I could care less about the ECU and small unnoticeable drop.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by PicassoM

ehh take the $2500 and get nice aftermarket wheels that are nicer than the everyday ZCPs. IMO

I could care less about the ECU and small unnoticeable drop.

+1

[NagoC50]

I stayed with the 220 b/c couldn't get a clear answer (I literally put my order in as soon as prices were announced) whether the ZCP wheels were forged or cast. The local pavement quality -- or lack thereof -- made me nervous about the wheels and additional drop. Still makes me nervous.

Fast forward to my recent Euro D on my '11 coupe, a ZCP car was right next to mine in a parking lot -- neither my wife or I could discern the 1 cm drop just looking at them. Plus, the fact is that with my skills, I'll never notice the drop difference behind the wheel. Just confirmed my choice to just go with the 220 and skip ZCP.

As for the DIY, if you like the wheels and were going to do a slight drop, by all means go ahead and order ZCP. You'll may be $ ahead if you were going to do those mods yourself. In the end, the option isn't much $ and I don't think that the package itself added enough to make the car more "exclusive" compared to a non-ZCP car.

[Bubbles]

You can feel the difference in handling on the track. This is coming from a non-zcp M3 driver who came along for a ride with me around The Ring. He has '09 DCT, and was impressed with the ZCP.

Really, who cares about the wheels. Cast/forged, if the wheel bends/breaks my insurance will cover it. I haven't heard of many oem 18s breaking/bending and I believe those are cast.

Most of you who are concerned with nominal weight difference will never drive your car in a environment where you'll feel the difference and most trackrats who may "feel" the weight difference will opt for 18s (assuming the wheels clear your BBK) due to cost of the rubber.

[mclarenmaniac]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

You can feel the difference in handling on the track. This is coming from a non-zcp M3 driver who came along for a ride with me around The Ring. He has '09 DCT, and was impressed with the ZCP.

Really, who cares about the wheels. Cast/forged, if the wheel bends/breaks my insurance will cover it. I haven't heard of many oem 18s breaking/bending and I believe those are cast.

Most of you who are concerned with nominal weight difference will never drive your car in a environment where you'll feel the difference and most trackrats who may "feel" the weight difference will opt for 18s (assuming the wheels clear your BBK) due to cost of the rubber.

Pardon my ignorance, does forged wheel means stronger compared to Non-forged?

[ChrisK]

Here is some info from years back:

Forging uses intense heat and pressure to transform a [solid} slug of alloy material into the final shape of a wheel. Forged aluminium is about 300 per cent stronger than cast aluminium, yet less material is needed to produce the same "cast alloy wheel", which results in a lighter product. Because of the basic limitations inherent in forging, most forged wheels are two or three piece units. In two-piece construction, a centre is forged and welded or bolted into a spun or stamped outer rim. In a three-piece wheel, the centre is bolted to an inner and an outer rim half. This stands as an advantage of being easily customisable for a variety of widths and offsets.

Casting is a relatively inexpensive way to produce a high-quality, fairly strong alloy wheel. There are two methods used. One, system is known as gravity casting... whereby the molten material is poured into a mold and allowed to cool. These molds are usually made by machining a piece of material on CNC machine equipments to produce a wheel that only requires minor finishing (like drilling or possibly trimming of some excess metal) to be considered complete. The other and better system used is the low pressure or negative pressure casting. Here instead of pouring the molten material into the mould, the molten alloy is drawn up into the mould using a high-pressure vacuum. This eliminates much of the trapped air found in gravity casting process, producing a stronger wheel that is less porous than a gravity-cast one.


http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums...postid=3104989

[FStop7]

Having done the aftermarket thing, if I were to do it over I'd do ZCP.

[JIO]

Originally Posted by whaleboy

I'm not so sure about the weight. The e46 ZCP wheels were lighter than the stock e46 19's. I'd like to see the actual weights for the newer ZCP and Stocks.

-David

I weighed my wheels 19" OEM vs the ZCP wheels and the ZCP wheel (rear) with same tires weighed 1.5 lbs more, probably due to the extra width.