typical profile of the M3 driver

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

Nice to meet you, you must have been the other fellow past 65 in the poll I made some time back ... good for you enjoy your M3

Was only joking Rolf - not many vegetable pickers can afford an M3!! I'm 37.

[Nine]

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

Unlike the American culture where everyone moves out and does their own thing, some cultures put family as priority #1. Ever think of that?

Family first = driving a ferrari and living at home at 40

WTF

[Raptor251]

Originally Posted by Nine

Family first = driving a ferrari and living at home at 40

WTF

Thats all I kept thinking!! WTF is wrong with people??

[IFX]

21, 19 when i got my e46M3. Parents bought it..

Waits..............

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by 5erman

Guys these threads are so useless. If the point is to gather real demographic info on an m3 driver this is the furthest thing from being able to do so.

1.In general those who make it to these boards tend to be WAY younger than your average m3 driver. So right there you move your age curve way to the left.

2.Those who will be more likely to post WITHIN a thread like this or be on the look out for this type of thread will be by FAR the younger guys because in general younger folks who can afford an m3 like to make that point known and it makes them feel good to tell people about it. I would probably feel the same way-I am 30 however so I missed by boat on being able to do that!

3. the Lurker's who read the boards and older folks are not going to jump out and post their age as there is some embarrasement factor of the mide-life-crisis.

anyway I am 30 and looking at getting an m3. I guess I have to admit this board makes you feel too old if you are above 30 but the reality is its probably less than 10 percent of m3 drivers are under 30. 80 percent are between 30-40 and 20 percent over 40.

^ I am older than the avg on this bd. Not posting my age. But my mid-life crisis will be a 991 But I will likely also own a BMW as I have for many years.

5erman: I had both a 540 & 530 at the same time: great cars and I traded the 540 for my M3. I wish I could buy a 535d for a DD in the US. I'd even consider a 520d.

[LarThaL]

I find them very entertaining. When the new M3 arrives, I'm sure the discussions will focus once again on the actual car, but as we are now in the twilight of the e9x M3's lifespan, there is little to be gained from another discussion on what exhaust to buy, etc.

So......with that in mind, let me add my 3 cents to the 14 pages of posts so far.

1. To begin with, I am 45. My wife and I are both physicians. We have 4 children. This is my first BMW. I have been a car enthusiast my whole life, but as most people know, in medicine, the material gratifications are delayed. I drove a Honda Prelude until age 33 when I stepped up to an Audi S4. Likewise, my wife was in a VW golf until she was into her 30's.

2. I don't hate/resent any young person that owns an M3. If they earned it themselves, that's great. If their parents gave it to them, they are damn lucky. If I was handed the keys to an M3 at 19, hell yeah, I would have taken it !!!! What car loving teenager wouldn't.

The parents, however, are a different matter. Whatever parent buys their teenager an M3 is a complete idiot. Seriously, even if one is affluent and their kid is a car enthusiast, how about something like a Honda Civic Si, or Mazdaspeed 3. Something fun, but yet reasonable, with some degree of restraint and moderation. These are the same people that are the "keep up with the Jones' " types. These parents are doing a disservice to their children.

3. Most people in the US need loans to buy a car, irrespective of what kind of car they buy. The average US household earning $50k per year and needing two cars is not going to be able to do it without financing. This doesn't mean they are stretching it.

Now, there comes a point, where a car stops being a necessity and starts to be a true luxury and/or play thing. At this point, if you are still dependent on financing , then, yes, you are living beyond your means. Maybe you should do with that $45k Infiniti G37 as opposed to the $73k M3.

4. People who are real car enthusiasts will always spend a greater percentage of their income on a car relative to someone who is not. We all have our hobbies and our passions, and if we are fortunate enough to have disposable income, no reason we shouldn't spend it on those things. I love my cars, but I'm not that much into air travel, for instance. To me, spending $10k in a week for a nice vacation is a waste of money. But, hey, that's me. I'll spend the same $10k on a nice set of wheels and tires and not feel bad about it at all.

5. What the hell is a mid-life crisis, anyway? Who defines what someone is supposed to be doing at some age? Most people who can afford nice things without sweating it are usually in mid-life or older.

Think about this: when you are young, you are trying to make your life and don't have much money (usually). Then you have a family, and your money goes to supporting your family life, raising kids, etc. Most people are at their earning peak in their late 40's to late 50's. Kids are likely done with college, and you are packing away some serious money for a few years at least. NOW is the time that you can go out and splurge on that dream car without even thinking about the finances. This is when you can use a two seater because you don't have to lug kids around. And this is a mid-life crisis? I would say it's more like your life's dreams came true.

6. Anyone who is even here on this forum to be engaged in a discussion such as this is damn fortunate in life. Be thankful.

[itf joegun]

Very well written!

[JulieDriving]

Originally Posted by Blu_Frg

First time posting here.. found this thread interesting because I just caught the M3 bug.. went in to the dealership yesterday to test drive one and immediately fell in love. I am NOT a troll despite some of the unsavory commentary I'm going to put out here.

Some initial impressions from this thread:

- Sure, there are some younger kids (<21) who actually ARE self-made and can afford their cars. If you couldn't have paid cash outright and still have enough funds/income to live comfortably without cutting back because of the new car, then you truly could not have "afforded" this car.

- You're always going to get into a pissing match with these kinds of threads. It's a natural, male instinct to always size-up one another to see who is more 'competitive' and 'fit' to survive in this world (i.e. how much money do you make and how old are you?). What does that mean? The younger people who are wealthy will be seen more as a threat to any demographic, even if you're older and wealthy. Why? Because even though you are wealthy now, your subconscious is feeling insecure that some kid half your age was able to be as successful as you in less time. Some older folks are probably too complacent to care and talk shit to the younger ones.. this is why you'll see a lot of hate from other younger people who aren't as established. When I see that a kid is 19 and his parents have bought him a brand spanking new M3, the only reason why I'd hate on him is because I'm fucking jealous. If your parents would have bought you a brand new m3 at age 19, do you honestly think you're going to say no? And if you're that lucky rich kid whose parents are doing this for you, do you think you're going to be humble about it? Hell no, you're going to flaunt that hot ass car to everyone in the world. Deal with it, that's part of being male in a materialistic world. Haters gonna hate.

- Most people probably cannot afford an M3 in the truest sense of the word. Mentioned above in my first point, unless you could truly walk away from an M3 purchase without feeling any financial strain whatsoever, you can't afford an M3. So, while you may not be able to afford a brand new M3 with cash off the lot, you could still technically be able to afford a used M3 with straight cash.

- A lot of people are going to get defensive after reading this post; those people are the ones who know deep down that they cannot truly afford an M3. I see a common psychology between members of boards like these that cater towards expensive goods (clothing, cars, electronics, etc): there are a LOT of people who simply cannot afford these goods but will make sacrifices in other areas to pull it off. As a result, you'll see an overwhelming amount of encouraging feedback and compliments from people. These sites truly attract people who reinforce each other with positive feedback to do and buy things that, honestly, are probably a financial stretch.

This is exactly what happened with the mortgage crisis. Sure, a lot of people want to blame the investment bankers and finance people (I'm not an I-Banker), but really, the root of the issue was that people were buying houses beyond their means by taking out mortgages they could not afford. The finance folks on Wall St. were executing their trade behind the scenes to make all this work out. I suggest you guys watch the movie Margin Call. No one gives Wall St. any flack when the going is good, but once the milk runs dry and shit hits the fan, they're the first ones to take the blame. How is the greedy investment banker running shady deals any different than the greedy american family that bought a house they couldn't afford? In the end, it all comes down to the human condition of wanting bigger and better things. In the case of the banker, it's money. In the case of the family, it's the nice house.

I only say all this because I am frustrated at my current situation. I want to join you guys and buy a car that I can't afford by taking out a loan (yes, I understand there are a couple of you who are actually very well off and can "afford" these cars; I'm not addressing you). I could take out a $60K loan with a 5-year payment plan and maybe 3-5% interest rate, buy an M3, post pictures on here, and feel good about myself because you all WILL say how beautiful and great it is. But in the back of my mind, I'll know, deep down, that it feels like crap to see that huge chunk of change being taken out of my account for loan payments.. then the thought of having that happen 60 times over 5 years.. that sucks.

So for now, even though I really, really want an M3 with all my heart, I'm going to resist and continue driving my ZHP (I say this now but I wouldn't be surprised to find myself in an M3 some time soon.. god I love being a hypocritical American ).

With all this being said, I respect the fact that some of you love driving so much that you will put yourself in minor/major financial strain to sustain an expensive hobby/lifestyle. In the end, it's your money, right?

Originally Posted by VVG

I find them very entertaining. When the new M3 arrives, I'm sure the discussions will focus once again on the actual car, but as we are now in the twilight of the e9x M3's lifespan, there is little to be gained from another discussion on what exhaust to buy, etc.

So......with that in mind, let me add my 3 cents to the 14 pages of posts so far.

1. To begin with, I am 45. My wife and I are both physicians. We have 4 children. This is my first BMW. I have been a car enthusiast my whole life, but as most people know, in medicine, the material gratifications are delayed. I drove a Honda Prelude until age 33 when I stepped up to an Audi S4. Likewise, my wife was in a VW golf until she was into her 30's.

2. I don't hate/resent any young person that owns an M3. If they earned it themselves, that's great. If their parents gave it to them, they are damn lucky. If I was handed the keys to an M3 at 19, hell yeah, I would have taken it !!!! What car loving teenager wouldn't.

The parents, however, are a different matter. Whatever parent buys their teenager an M3 is a complete idiot. Seriously, even if one is affluent and their kid is a car enthusiast, how about something like a Honda Civic Si, or Mazdaspeed 3. Something fun, but yet reasonable, with some degree of restraint and moderation. These are the same people that are the "keep up with the Jones' " types. These parents are doing a disservice to their children.

3. Most people in the US need loans to buy a car, irrespective of what kind of car they buy. The average US household earning $50k per year and needing two cars is not going to be able to do it without financing. This doesn't mean they are stretching it.

Now, there comes a point, where a car stops being a necessity and starts to be a true luxury and/or play thing. At this point, if you are still dependent on financing , then, yes, you are living beyond your means. Maybe you should do with that $45k Infiniti G37 as opposed to the $73k M3.

4. People who are real car enthusiasts will always spend a greater percentage of their income on a car relative to someone who is not. We all have our hobbies and our passions, and if we are fortunate enough to have disposable income, no reason we shouldn't spend it on those things. I love my cars, but I'm not that much into air travel, for instance. To me, spending $10k in a week for a nice vacation is a waste of money. But, hey, that's me. I'll spend the same $10k on a nice set of wheels and tires and not feel bad about it at all.

5. What the hell is a mid-life crisis, anyway? Who defines what someone is supposed to be doing at some age? Most people who can afford nice things without sweating it are usually in mid-life or older.

Think about this: when you are young, you are trying to make your life and don't have much money (usually). Then you have a family, and your money goes to supporting your family life, raising kids, etc. Most people are at their earning peak in their late 40's to late 50's. Kids are likely done with college, and you are packing away some serious money for a few years at least. NOW is the time that you can go out and splurge on that dream car without even thinking about the finances. This is when you can use a two seater because you don't have to lug kids around. And this is a mid-life crisis? I would say it's more like your life's dreams came true.

6. Anyone who is even here on this forum to be engaged in a discussion such as this is damn fortunate in life. Be thankful.

Amen!

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by VVG

1. To begin with, I am 45. My wife and I are both physicians. We have 4 children. This is my first BMW. I have been a car enthusiast my whole life, but as most people know, in medicine, the material gratifications are delayed. I drove a Honda Prelude until age 33 when I stepped up to an Audi S4. Likewise, my wife was in a VW golf until she was into her 30's.

Agree. I too spent many many years studying and did not make a 'robust' paycheck until my 30s. Hence, I savored it all the more. My wife is similar (3 grad degrees which does not necessarily equate to high income - do what one loves, eh.)

Originally Posted by VVG

2. I don't hate/resent any young person that owns an M3. If they earned it themselves, that's great. If their parents gave it to them, they are damn lucky. If I was handed the keys to an M3 at 19, hell yeah, I would have taken it !!!! What car loving teenager wouldn't.

Agree - but I think I might be dead if I'd been given this car at 19. No Vettel!

Originally Posted by VVG

The parents, however, are a different matter. Whatever parent buys their teenager an M3 is a complete idiot. Seriously, even if one is affluent and their kid is a car enthusiast, how about something like a Honda Civic Si, or Mazdaspeed 3. Something fun, but yet reasonable, with some degree of restraint and moderation. These are the same people that are the "keep up with the Jones' " types. These parents are doing a disservice to their children.

Well said. I had a fast car in my early 20s and glad I'm alive today.

Originally Posted by VVG

Now, there comes a point, where a car stops being a necessity and starts to be a true luxury and/or play thing. At this point, if you are still dependent on financing , then, yes, you are living beyond your means. Maybe you should do with that $45k Infiniti G37 as opposed to the $73k M3.

This is contingent on one's FICO, the rates being offered. First, yes, an M3 is a luxury item, not A to B transport. Second, if one can obtain 0.9% financing - with money down to cover the initial depreciation hit - then it's *completely* rational to leverage: as long as you are able to invest to earn a positive spread. What I do.

Originally Posted by VVG

5. What the hell is a mid-life crisis, anyway? Who defines what someone is supposed to be doing at some age? Most people who can afford nice things without sweating it are usually in mid-life or older.

They are. But research does highlight the existence of a mid-life crisis - but it's clearly not a uniform experience.

Originally Posted by VVG

Think about this: when you are young, you are trying to make your life and don't have much money (usually). Then you have a family, and your money goes to supporting your family life, raising kids, etc. Most people are at their earning peak in their late 40's to late 50's. Kids are likely done with college, and you are packing away some serious money for a few years at least. NOW is the time that you can go out and splurge on that dream car without even thinking about the finances. This is when you can use a two seater because you don't have to lug kids around. And this is a mid-life crisis? I would say it's more like your life's dreams came true.

Yep. But if you're the avg age on this bd. it's all ahead of one. But I hear you. And mostly true for me.

Originally Posted by VVG

6. Anyone who is even here on this forum to be engaged in a discussion such as this is damn fortunate in life. Be thankful.

^ Completely agree. Median h/hold income is ~$50k. Think about it - not you OP as you 'get' it.

[BPe90M3]

[QUOTE=JulieDriving;10958027]

Originally Posted by VVG

2. I don't hate/resent any young person that owns an M3. If they earned it themselves, that's great. If their parents gave it to them, they are damn lucky. If I was handed the keys to an M3 at 19, hell yeah, I would have taken it !!!! What car loving teenager wouldn't.

The parents, however, are a different matter. Whatever parent buys their teenager an M3 is a complete idiot. Seriously, even if one is affluent and their kid is a car enthusiast, how about something like a Honda Civic Si, or Mazdaspeed 3. Something fun, but yet reasonable, with some degree of restraint and moderation. These are the same people that are the "keep up with the Jones' " types. These parents are doing a disservice to their children.

I completely understand what you are saying. I have always done well in school so when i turned 17 my dad got me an Evo X Mr. I was't really into the automatic thing so i traded it for a GSR which I had up to about 2 months ago when I gave it to my brother. Honestly the M3 feels like nothing right now speed wise because my Evo had around 200whp more than it. I had that car for 2 years and I have never gotten into an accident, nor any tickets (besides tinted windows). I just wanted to switch to something a little nicer and thats a better daily. Im not saying I'm the best driver in the world but I have been able to control all 3 cars Ive had so far. I drive like a grandma on the street but the track is a different story. And not for nothing but id be pretty embarrassed to drive a civic or even a speed 3. But to each their ownn.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Sometime ago I posted a Pool it contained the age group among other items, some of you I'm sure saw it and voted. I never posted my age ... perhaps once someplace I think I did. So ....

First and foremost

I need to reveal my age and profession like so many of you fine folks here did. I am 74 and a retired mechanical engineer having owned my own business since the age of 55. I did plan it that way since I realized at an earlier age of 35 that one can never make any money working for others and afford the better things in life.

My love for fine cars started very early in life when I was 15 and started working for a living. I worked for a successful business man in Germany that at the time owned some very fine automobiles. One of them a 1950 Mercedes-Benz 170S it was a great car. I was allowed to wash it every week so driving this car out from the garage to wash it then returning it back into the garage was the highlight of my working week

My M3 now is my 7th BMW and the second new one I've owned in my life.

Why do we drive or desire our M3

I think we can all agree that we are to the greater percentage anyway car enthusiasts some how somewhere we fell for this car, the handling, the feel of the road the overall shape, there are I am sure other reasons as well. Therefore we do appreciate the car and the quality of workmanship that went into producing this car. The ///M Division when it designs a M3 for production takes an already first class automobile like the 3 series and replaces 50 to 60% of it's parts components with stronger/performance orientated parts therefore in my mind anyway it makes it a kind of special car

Age Group Summary

16 to 20 = 12
21 to 30 = 53
31 to 40 = 36
41 to 50 = 13
51 to 60 = 8
61 to 75 = 3

No Age Given = 28

Profession

It seams that we have a great mix here from Student or still studying to get that job of your dreams to the retired individual that at the end of his carrier just likes to enjoy life to the fullest. We have men that served there country to Business Owners, IT Managers, Programmers, Physicians, Financiers, Real Estate Finances and Agents, Engineers in several categories, be it mechanical, electrical, software, safety, security related or otherwise and the list goes on. In general a great cross-section of people that have one thing in common and that is the appreciation for a great automobile.

Who Deserves a Fine Automobile like the M3


Well anyone that works hard for it and that by no means excludes the younger folks. Young people in todays times are more responsible (in some cases anyway) then we may have been when we were there age. In this thread there are several young men that at a younger age started there working life at a very young age and are I am sure responsible.

There are several men that have served there country they surely deserve the very best upon there return home having sacrificed many things that we in general take for granted.

Not all of us are in a brand new M3, most of the folks are first in a used one (I was in 2 used M3's before I felt it was time for a new one). So when that day arrives and you are driving away in that brand new M3 the odometer reading less then 10 Miles (16 KM) you can give yourself a pat on the back then welcome your new friend (toy) by a gentle rub on the dash for you surely deserve it.

Cheers & Happy and Safe Trails to All

Rolf-Dieter

[BiteDoctor]

just called my accountant, he said i could afford M cars... for now

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by Better With Age

Greetings - new member!

I turned 60 a couple of months ago. My "Happy Birthday To Me" present was my 2011 M3 Coupe (Jerez Black). My beautiful wife of almost 25 years said, "go for it - you deserve it".

GOOD FOR YOU!

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

It seams [sic] that we have a great mix here from Student or still studying to get that job of your dreams to the retired individual that at the end of his carrier just likes to enjoy life to the fullest. We have men that served there country to Business Owners, IT Managers, Programmers, Physicians, Engineers in several categories, be it mechanical, electrical, software, safety, security related or otherwise. In general a great cross-section of people that have one thing in common and that is the appreciation for a great automobile.

@ Rolf, I suspect there's a quite few financiers as well [know of a few on this bd. And yes, all driven by a common passion

[mjposner]

51 and while I did not stretch too much to buy my used 08 M3 Vert, it still kills me to have a car payment over $500. I can't lease due to mileage, nut the 2.49% loan made the new to me M3 plausible.

[LarThaL]

[QUOTE=BPe90M3;10958760]

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

I completely understand what you are saying. I have always done well in school so when i turned 17 my dad got me an Evo X Mr. I was't really into the automatic thing so i traded it for a GSR which I had up to about 2 months ago when I gave it to my brother. Honestly the M3 feels like nothing right now speed wise because my Evo had around 200whp more than it. I had that car for 2 years and I have never gotten into an accident, nor any tickets (besides tinted windows). I just wanted to switch to something a little nicer and thats a better daily. Im not saying I'm the best driver in the world but I have been able to control all 3 cars Ive had so far. I drive like a grandma on the street but the track is a different story. And not for nothing but id be pretty embarrassed to drive a civic or even a speed 3. But to each their ownn.

It's not necessarily about the power, although there are simple biological facts about the teenage brain and impulse control that are just that, facts.

At age 17, if you would be embarrassed to be seen in a car like a Civic Si or Mazdaspeed 3, I would say you are seriously arrogant. You should be grateful if it was a 6 year old used Hyundai. It is a car, it is free to you, and you are 17.

[JulieDriving]

^^ Whoa, for some funny formatting reason, it looks like what VVG quoted comes from me. For the record, I'm a 40 year old physician who had nothing but used, cheap econo cars until I bought myself my first 'nice' car (a 'lowly' Acura TSX) at 35. I would have thought I hit the jackpot if I was able to have a Civic Si in my teens, lol.

[JulieDriving]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

The ///M Division when it designs a M3 for production takes an already first class automobile like the 3 series and replaces 50 to 60% of it's parts components with stronger/performance orientated parts therefore in my mind anyway it makes it a kind of special car

M Division changed 80% of the parts from the regular 3 series to make the M3 (at least for the coupe).

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

^^ Whoa, for some funny formatting reason, it looks like what VVG quoted comes from me. For the record, I'm a 40 year old physician who had nothing but used, cheap econo cars until I bought myself my first 'nice' car (a 'lowly' Acura TSX) at 35. I would have thought I hit the jackpot if I was able to have a Civic Si in my teens, lol.

How did that happen ?? This was posted by BPe90M3.

[Voltigeur]

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

M Division changed 80% of the parts from the regular 3 series to make the M3 (at least for the coupe).

Over 80%. Which the avg person - even BMW driver - does not know. Not just a 'warmed over' 3er.

[BPe90M3]

[QUOTE=VVG;10959259]

Originally Posted by BPe90M3

It's not necessarily about the power, although there are simple biological facts about the teenage brain and impulse control that are just that, facts.

At age 17, if you would be embarrassed to be seen in a car like a Civic Si or Mazdaspeed 3, I would say you are seriously arrogant. You should be grateful if it was a 6 year old used Hyundai. It is a car, it is free to you, and you are 17.

I guess its just the area i live in. I wouldn't say that I'm arrogant, I just hate FWD lol. I expect my opinion to be respected just as i respected yours. Like I said, I worked hard in school for my car. Cars are a very important aspect of life for me and my parents know that so I guess they just wanna keep me motivated. I had a 3.8 average in the private high school that I worked hard tho get into and now In college I am maintaining a 3.5+ average at Fordham University. Not saying anyone is right or wrong just statig what I feel.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

M Division changed 80% of the parts from the regular 3 series to make the M3 (at least for the coupe).

Sorry Julie, I have to disagree ... it is actually more then 50% of the parts that are changed from a standard 3 series to build an M3 car. The 80% you are thinking of is the percentage that the Engineers and Designers are refering to as being modified.

If you like to listen to it yourself then this video ===> Click and open video BMW M PROGRESS the first 1.5 minutes of that video will confirm this to you

I actually got this first hand from one of the Designers during a visit to the M Division.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

Over 80%. Which the avg person - even BMW driver - does not know. Not just a 'warmed over' 3er.

Please refer to post 312