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      09-10-2014, 08:06 AM   #1145
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Originally Posted by gan1hck View Post
I got that programmed, but it is also very intrusive. Allows for more slip angle under power, but that seems to be about it. Anytime the car gets light at all in the rear, the response seems to be to just shut the car down before you ever get a chance to apply corrections.

Very glad to have made the jump to driving with it off....remember being very scared the first time out with the nannies off....but you know what? I didn't fly of the track and burst into flames....
Yup, euro MDM is too restrictive. I wouldn't even say it gives more slip angle under power. For me, it felt like there was a timer on how long you are allowed to "slip" and more than a few seconds, the power gets cut.

Completely agree with your second paragraph. My philosophy is from some F1 driver, I want to say a Fin but pretty sure it wasn't Kimi maybe Mika? Anyway, the quickest way to find the limit is to exceed it. So, the track is the perfect environment to do exactly that. The worst that can happen is you go off and have a talking to on pit lane. The tracks here are no where as risky as the Green Hell, grow a pair and do it!! Just do it smartly.
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      09-10-2014, 12:32 PM   #1146
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Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
Hi Bill!

Thanks, good to be back, those Korean drivers are crazy! I'll definitely try to make it to the Nov 10-11 event. See you then!!

The curb and about a foot past that is part of the track in my book, as long as its not 4 wheels off!
Hey! I resemble that comment.
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      09-10-2014, 12:35 PM   #1147
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Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
Yup, euro MDM is too restrictive. I wouldn't even say it gives more slip angle under power. For me, it felt like there was a timer on how long you are allowed to "slip" and more than a few seconds, the power gets cut.

Completely agree with your second paragraph. My philosophy is from some F1 driver, I want to say a Fin but pretty sure it wasn't Kimi maybe Mika? Anyway, the quickest way to find the limit is to exceed it. So, the track is the perfect environment to do exactly that. The worst that can happen is you go off and have a talking to on pit lane. The tracks here are no where as risky as the Green Hell, grow a pair and do it!! Just do it smartly.
+1

and patiently. My lap times dropped around 8 seconds when I went DSC off. Took me around 10 months to get back to the previous pace, and exceed. Learned a lot about driving during that time (& still learning).
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      09-10-2014, 04:19 PM   #1148
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White guys buy lifted trucks and Asians get an M3 to compensate?
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      09-10-2014, 05:06 PM   #1149
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
White guys buy lifted trucks and Asians get an M3 to compensate?
I blame my asian roommate in college for getting me into the import and racing scene. It was because of him that I bought a 95 Toyota Supra after finishing college. Then the imports when from Japan to Germany.
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      09-10-2014, 05:12 PM   #1150
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Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
I second the above comment. Put all BMW track sections together. I would be curious to see how a M235, 1M, E30, E36, E46, E9x, F8x M3 would do on track......heck I wouldn't care if it were a 128. Bottom line the track community would be more than happy to help/share with all.
we should all send a mass pm to the mods...basically where it has the forums up top: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.......TRACK (no submenus for model...just a consolidated view of every thread from every forum).....that's how it should look.

@Jason ?
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      09-10-2014, 06:00 PM   #1151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
White guys buy lifted trucks and Asians get an M3 to compensate?
be it height or performance, something will get pumped up!
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      09-10-2014, 07:43 PM   #1152
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i guess it would be hard to do this with tc off

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      09-10-2014, 08:29 PM   #1153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkimM3r View Post
i guess it would be hard to do this with tc off
I assume you meant tc ON
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      09-10-2014, 08:33 PM   #1154
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Originally Posted by okusa View Post
I assume you meant tc ON
meant to say, if you turned it off, it would be hard to drive at that level.

but your's makes sense too since its impossibruuu!
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      09-10-2014, 09:13 PM   #1155
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Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
be it height or performance, something will get pumped up!
Yes sir.
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      09-11-2014, 01:04 AM   #1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkimM3r View Post
i guess it would be hard to do this with tc off

Cool, looks like the 991 Cup with the paddles. Man, the guy is constantly moving his hands but I think he has no choice or the car is going to spin on him. I can even think how scary fast the cup cars are to street driven GT3s.
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      09-11-2014, 01:59 AM   #1157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29 View Post
Cool, looks like the 991 Cup with the paddles. Man, the guy is constantly moving his hands but I think he has no choice or the car is going to spin on him. I can even think how scary fast the cup cars are to street driven GT3s.
Yep, he's just reacting to what the car's doing.
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      09-27-2014, 02:00 PM   #1158
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Went to Speed District's Buttonwillow 13CW day yesterday. It was a great day out there! Thanks Josh!! The weather is finally starting to mellow out.

I have two times to report--my standard Euro-MDM on, and now as I have begun practicing with DSC-off, I'm listing my DSC-off times as well when there's something interesting to report.

It's worth noting that these two laps were run on different tire sets. I had fresh tires with Euro-MDM-on in the morning, and I switched to 4 day-old tires when running DSC-off at 4PM. Aside from continuing to be more comfortable with DSC-off, DSC-off times should continue to improve simply with better tires and running with it off earlier in the day.

E90 M3--Euro-MDM on.
Track/course: Buttonwillow 13CW
Best Lap Time: 1:56.3 (transponder) (I ran three laps at 1:56)
Brakes: AP Racing - Cobalt Friction XR2 front/XR3 rear
Tires: Hankook TD - 295/30/18 square on Apex Arc-8 10.5" (fresh tires)
Suspension: JRZ RS Pro
Other mods: VF620, Akrapovic X-Pipe with stock exhaust, RD Sport front sway bar, (full interior and no aero parts)

E90 M3--DSC-off
Track/course: Buttonwillow 13CW
Best Lap Time: 1:58.1 (transponder) (I ran four laps at 1:58---1:58.1. 1:58.2, 1:58.4, 1:58.6)
Brakes: AP Racing - Cobalt Friction XR2 front/XR3 rear
Tires: Hankook TD - 295/30/18 square on Apex Arc-8 10.5" (tires on 4th day)
Suspension: JRZ RS Pro
Other mods: VF620, Akrapovic X-Pipe with stock exhaust, RD Sport front sway bar, (full interior and no aero parts)

Here's video of the 1:56 lap:

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      09-28-2014, 02:01 AM   #1159
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Nice run, you guys had great temps out there on Friday and that pavement looks smoooooooooth. I was thinking of going out there as well but had 3 day old NT01/RA1s so there wasn't enough life in there for a drive up and back along with the track time. I might do the global time attack in mid Nov as it's before the PCA SD weekend.
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      09-28-2014, 09:04 AM   #1160
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Hey dogbone-

Did you find that the front bar helps keeps the rear settled w/ the square setup? Also, are you running less rear rebound? Thx

Nice driving...
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      09-28-2014, 10:14 AM   #1161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB/ZR-1 View Post
Hey dogbone-

Did you find that the front bar helps keeps the rear settled w/ the square setup? Also, are you running less rear rebound? Thx

Nice driving...
The front sway bar was a recent addition and, thanks to Steve at EAS, I had the awesome opportunity to switch the sway bar while at Buttonwillow between run sessions, so I could really feel the effect of the swap. I started in the morning with my standard setup that I've driven for over a year unchanged; ran a couple sessions, and then Steve jumped under the car and swapped out the sway bar. And we started with the sway bar in the stiffest setting possible (which is where I've left it). Then I immediately jumped back out onto the track and-----I liked the difference. The car felt-----tighter, but in a good way. The front end felt like it's leaning over less. And I felt like I had more precise control on turn in. At a track like Buttonwillow, I felt like the car carved into Cotton Corners better than it did before. I feel like I'm waiting less for the weight transitions to occur. (My times improved after the sway bar was installed…..I don't know if the sway bar was directly responsible, but the day got quite hot, and most people did not get faster, but I was getting faster……we were all scratching our heads on that one.)

People ask me if the sway bar adds a lot of understeer. On my setup, I run Hankook TD soft compound in 295 square. And I run maximum allowable camber. And I have JRZ. I have a LOT of grip up front. In fact, I'd say I have grip to spare in some cases. If the sway bar is inducing some understeer, it's not unwelcome. I can say now having tracked at Big Willow and Buttonwillow twice, that I haven't induced any understeer that is objectionable----but again I had a TON of front grip to begin with.

Honestly, I pursued this mod because of a conversation on this forum about tire edge wear. Billy Johnson said I should try a sway bar to help save the edges. So, I was really approaching the sway bar from a tire preservation standpoint versus a performance standpoint. Interestingly, the new pavement at Buttonwillow is WAYYYYYYY easier on tires than the old pavement. It's INCREDIBLE how much less wearing the new surface is on tires. In the past, Buttonwillow would destroy tires very quickly. Now we're seeing tires heat cycle out and seriously lose performance while still showing decent tread. But regardless of Buttonwillow's new pavement, I think the sway bar is helping some with tire edge wear. Big Willow is also very nasty on tires because Turn 2 and 8 are very high speed and long turns and they both go the same direction, so I've seen the front driver tire get SERIOUSLY abused there. Usually, I'll rotate tires after only two sessions there. Last week, I purposefully did not rotate my (not new) tires and ran the whole day. Normally, that would spell doom for a soft tire like a TD. While the front driver did show a fair amount of edge wear by the end of the day, it was by no means destroyed, and when I went to Buttonwillow on Friday, I used those tires to drive DSC-off and still ran 1:58. I just put that worn tire on the least used corner at Buttonwillow which is the passenger rear corner and it was fine. So, I think the sway bar IS helping with tire wear in the front.

As far as the specific question of the rear being settled more with the sway bar-----I may not be the best person to ask. Since most of my running has been done with Euro-MDM on, the computer ensures that the tail of my car stays in the rear. However, I have driven a fair amount of DSC-off with the stock sway bar, and assed the car out many times. I ran 20+ laps on Friday DSC-off with the new sway bar, and I never had any oopsy moments with the ass coming out when I didn't want it. I did push it through Off-Ramp and purposefully rotated the car, but the tail of the car did feel planted (and I have a blower, so it's easy to power oversteer the car if you're not careful).

Regarding my suspension settings, yes, I run lower rebound and compression in the rear-----compared to the front, on my JRZ, I run four clicks less rebound and two clicks less compression in the rear.

There's another guy on the forum here who has a VERY similar setup to me----same suspension, same brakes, has a blower, he even has solid bushings which i don't have, but I do have 50lbs more springs on front and back. There was a guy at the track on Friday who rode passenger in both our cars that day. He said my car felt stiffer. And as it turns out, I was running softer suspension settings than the other car. I'm going to say the sway bar had something to do with that.

My conclusion is that I'm happy with the RD Sport sway bar. I'm leaving it on and leaving it on the stiffest setting. The car is a little stiffer on the streets, especially on a rough road but thats ok. C'mon, we all do this BECAUSE RACE CAR!!!!!!
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      09-28-2014, 11:36 AM   #1162
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^^^

Excellent feedback--thank you...
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      09-29-2014, 10:46 PM   #1163
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Quote:
Car: E90 M3 DCT
Track/Course: Mid Ohio
Best Lap Time: 1:44.6
Brakes: PF-08 fronts, PF-01 rears
Tires (Size & Model): 275/35/18 Toyo RA1s on 18*10 ET25 wheels
Other Mods: Motul 600 fluids and...

----------------------------------------------------------

Track/Course: Mid-Ohio
Best Lap Time: 1:44
Brakes: EBC Green F/R, Performance Friction rotors (front) Euro 2-piece rear
SS Lines, ATE Supper Blue
Tires (Size & Model): BFG R1 255/40/18 front, 255/40/18 rear
Suspension: TC Kline D/A Coilover Kit, RD Sway bars, Rogue ARCA,
Camber: (F)1.5 (R) 2.75
Other Mods: Dinan intake & Stg 2 software,

Same car at Putnam Park 1:17
Mid Ohio Club Course
Car: BMW X1
Best Time: 1:44.5
Brakes: PFC08 pads/motul fluid
Tires: 255/40/17 direzza zii
Other mods: JRZ suspension, fbo (no meth, stock exhaust)

Last edited by Jon@NL; 09-29-2014 at 11:23 PM.
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      09-30-2014, 01:41 PM   #1164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
Track/course: WGI
Best lap time: 2.17.12 July 2013
Brake pads: Stock brakes with Pagid RS19 pads and SRF brake fluid
Tires: Michelin Pilot Cups 265/285 on Apex Arc 8 wheels
Suspension: stock EDC with camber plates set to -2.8F/-2R
Other Mods: Gintani catless X-Pipe/stock rear section, BPM tune
So, i was at WGI this sunday w/ NASA, set my new best personal lap time:2.10.4
Shaved off almost 7 seconds. I did a few changes that contributed to this: BFG R1 tires instead of MPCs same size, ESS VT1-550 SC, removed front brake dust shields, replaced front stock rotors with PFC two piece rotors, replaced stock EDC susp. with Ohlins R&T coilovers.Thats it.
It was about 20 degrees cooler compare to what it was in july last year.
I think all these changes to the car and cooler conditions made the difference, but i think the biggest difference was changing my driving technique.
Due to added power, i had to use 4th gear instead of 3rd in T1, bus stop, T6,8,11. Also, was upshifting to 5th gear before T2, to 6th gear right after exiting the esses. Top speed was 158 indicated right before the bus stop
Braking technique: was braking much less before T1,6,and especially no braking at all(just lifting)before T10 and very light braking at T11.
T1, 10 and 11 are most important corners for the fast lap times.
And i always run with mdm mode at this track, because one small mistake =totaled car. Probably lose 2-3 seconds, but like someone said the other day, i am not a professional, and i am no superman
I think with more seat time this car can brake 2.07 easily, and can brake 2.05 with TC off and some weight reduction.
Edit: completely forgot about the major change to my car lol, coilovers. Fixed.

Last edited by Groundpilot; 09-30-2014 at 03:13 PM.
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      09-30-2014, 02:58 PM   #1165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
So, i was at WGI this sunday w/ NASA, set my new best personal lap time:2.10.4
Shaved off more than 7 seconds. I did a few changes that contributed to this: BFG R1 tires instead of MPCs same size, ESS VT1-550 SC, removed front brake dust shields, replaced front stock rotors with PFC two piece rotors. Thats it.
It was about 20 degrees cooler compare to what it was in july last year.
I think all these changes to the car and cooler conditions made the difference, but i think the biggest difference was changing my driving technique.
Due to added power, i had to use 4th gear instead of 3rd in T1, bus stop, T6,8,11. Also, was upshifting to 5th gear before T2, to 6th gear right after exiting the esses. Top speed was 158 indicated right before the bus stop
Braking technique: was braking much less before T1,6,and especially no braking at all(just lifting)before T10 and very light braking at T11.
T1, 10 and 11 are most important corners for the fast lap times.
And i always run with mdm mode at this track, because one small mistake =totaled car. Probably lose 2-3 seconds, but like someone said the other day, i am not a professional, and i am no superman
I think with more seat time this car can brake 2.07 easily, and can brake 2.05 with TC off and some weight reduction.
2:10 is very fast. Nice work. I agree, one small mistake at this track is catastrophic depending on where it happens, but man the track is fun!
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      10-06-2014, 04:04 PM   #1166
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'09 E90 M3 3712lbs DCT
Track/Course: VIR Full
Best Lap Time: 2:10.0 (flat)
Brake Pads: Pagid Yellows with PFC 2 piece rotors, Bimmerworld guide pins and SS lines, front backing plates removed.
Tires (Size & Model): 275/18 RA1s on Enkei 18*10 et25 wheels
Suspension: H&R front only bar, GC plates set at -2.5 front, -1.8 rear, Bilstein EDC shocks set at stiff, Eibach springs.
Other Mods: Running traction off, Supersprint F1 exhaust.
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