The last manual BMW...

[nicholasn]

Car and Driver/Road and Track are both reporting that the G87 M2 is likely going to be the final BMW available with a manual. Ironically it will follow the dual clutch which has already been mostly phased out.

"It's not only a decision of BMW, it's also a decision of the suppliers," [Dirk] Hacker told Top Gear when asked whether the manual will die with the current M2. "If you take a look around, you will see the future for manual gearbox suppliers will decrease. So I'm not sure we will have the possibility in the future—but in the future means six, seven years in forecast."

The double clutch, from BMW M's point of view these days, it's gone," he told Top Gear. "It's now manual or automatic, and automatic electrified for the future . . . the automatic is better performing than the double clutch. In the M4 CSL it's faster-shifting and on the other side, we also use this automatic in the new M4 GTR race car."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...st-manual-car/

Definitely sad to see but not surprising. I scooped up my 328i a few years back mostly because it had a manual, but I rarely see other manual E90s of any kind. Feels like it's getting harder to be a BMW fan with them phasing out the third pedal coupled with the increasingly ugly designs seen on many current models.

[GTF]

And the best Anti-theft device bites the dust.

[DBMSPORT7]

Originally Posted by GTF

And the best Anti-theft device bites the dust.

💯

[///MPhatic]

I don't think it matters much, TBO, there are plenty of manual cars out there that I prefer to anything new BMW is making, and all things are cyclical, so give it some time and they'll release a "rare" manual that they can charge 145% for.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I don't think it matters much, TBO, there are plenty of manual cars out there that I prefer to anything new BMW is making, and all things are cyclical, so give it some time and they'll release a "rare" manual that they can charge 145% for.

Plenty? Name names, and how attainable are they?
Not trying to come at you super strong, but I can't think of any sedans with a MT. I guess a Mazda3, GTI, Camaro, or Mustang would work in a pinch, but none of those are equivalent to a 3 series sedan. M2 isn't even that.
I guess I could replace my 2006 with a newer E90 if I ever crash it, but in the meantime, keeping it running is my goal!

[SW111]

This is why I am keeping my M235i manual. The M2 Competition with manual is tempting though.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Plenty? Name names, and how attainable are they?
Not trying to come at you super strong, but I can't think of any sedans with a MT. I guess a Mazda3, GTI, Camaro, or Mustang would work in a pinch, but none of those are equivalent to a 3 series sedan. M2 isn't even that.
I guess I could replace my 2006 with a newer E90 if I ever crash it, but in the meantime, keeping it running is my goal!

Not everyone has the same goals as you, and yes, plenty, but you may have to go back in time a bit. So many manuals, the world will never run out.

[erickonphoenix]

the Integra/Honda manuals are very nice. I haven't driven the TypeS yet but I expect it will be very good.

I was bummed I couldn't get the F31 in a manual, but who'd have thought back that years later I wouldn't even be able to get a wagon in the US at all. So, I'll hold on to this one as well.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Not everyone has the same goals as you, and yes, plenty, but you may have to go back in time a bit. So many manuals, the world will never run out.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree as to what plenty means!

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by erickonphoenix

the Integra/Honda manuals are very nice. I haven't driven the TypeS yet but I expect it will be very good.

I was bummed I couldn't get the F31 in a manual, but who'd have thought back that years later I wouldn't even be able to get a wagon in the US at all. So, I'll hold on to this one as well.

I was actually looking at the Accord 2.0T with a MT, as a reluctant replacement, but they quit selling those as well! 2020 was the last year, so would have to get used.
Civics are okay and still have a MT, but the Accords were really nice and a lot more presence than the Civics.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I think we'll have to agree to disagree as to what plenty means!

-BRZ
-WRX/STi
-Mazda 3
-Camaro
-Mustang
-Miata
-Elise/Exige
-Porsche Cayman/911/Boxter
-Golf/Jetta
-Audi R8
-F80/F82
-Integra
-Supra
-Corolla GR
-Jag F-Type
-Corvette
-Civic Type R
-Challenger
-Vantage
-370Z
-Caddy CTS-V

Just trying to figure out exactly what else you want.

These cars didn't just disappear.

If you want more, just have a look on BaT.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

-BRZ
-WRX/STi
-Mazda 3
-Camaro
-Mustang
-Miata
-Elise/Exige
-Porsche Cayman/911/Boxter
-Golf/Jetta
-Audi R8
-F80/F82
-Integra
-Supra
-Corolla GR
-Jag F-Type
-Corvette
-Civic Type R
-Challenger
-Vantage
-370Z
-Caddy CTS-V

Just trying to figure out exactly what else you want.

These cars didn't just disappear.

If you want more, just have a look on BaT.

That's a good list! Very much skewed toward enthusiast cars though... I think the Jetta is the only basic sedan? Everything else is $$$ and two doors or a hatch (generalization). Basic sport sedan doesn't exist anymore, and it would be nice to be able to buy one. Three series, 5er, heck, an Accord as mentioned above would be great to get with with a MT. Like I said, I guess keeping my E90 running is the best thing I can do.

[Marcoose]

What is the ‘automatic’ in the race car ? How does it perform better ?

[nicholasn]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

What is the ‘automatic’ in the race car ? How does it perform better ?

Pretty sure it's the same ZF 8spd that is found in many European cars.

As the number of cars available with manuals continues to dwindle, I wonder what the final production manual car will be? Feels like it could be Porsche if the Boxster/Cayman lives to see another generation with ICE, although one of the Japanese automakers could be a dark horse...maybe Mazda if there is a next gen ICE Miata?

[Anderson11]

Prior to taking delivery of my G82 I had a 2016 WRX STI and a 2021 M2C 6sp. I loved the manual experience except for stop and go traffic. I regulary travel between Boston and Richmond VA and traffic jams no matter how well planned can be epic. The last straw was driving from Richmond and it took 3 hours to get through DC when it should have been 2. 5 miles of stop and go did it for me. I love my 8 speed ZF with the taller gear ratio. LOL....

[Marcoose]

Is the ZF8S a proper auto box (PRND), or paddle shifter like the DCT ?

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Plenty? Name names, and how attainable are they?
Not trying to come at you super strong, but I can't think of any sedans with a MT. I guess a Mazda3, GTI, Camaro, or Mustang would work in a pinch, but none of those are equivalent to a 3 series sedan. M2 isn't even that.
I guess I could replace my 2006 with a newer E90 if I ever crash it, but in the meantime, keeping it running is my goal!

Four-door sedans with MT in 2023:

Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing
Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing
Hyundai Elantra N
Kia Forte
VW Golf GTI,
VW Golf R
VW Jetta
Acura Integra
Honda Civic Type R
Honda Civic Si
Toyota GR Corolla
Subaru WRX

List is much longer if you look beyond just sedans.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Three series, 5er, heck, an Accord as mentioned above would be great to get with with a MT. Like I said, I guess keeping my E90 running is the best thing I can do.

European car market has changed in the last 20-years or so. From being mainly MT, particularly in smaller motors, we have seen the MT phased out due to the market changing, even during the E9x model production.

Several reasons, including fuel consumption/emissions, road congestion and an odd but important one, big diesels perfectly suited to AT. Even the smaller diesel models were best matched to an AT. Demand for MT dropped off and BMW withdrew many MT models from the ranges, including in the 3-series. This even rolled across to M-cars, with models like the F10 M5 not even being offered with MT in the UK.

Now we have many users (all segments) wanting driving aids which require AT to function... writing has been on the wall for several years, for MT to virtually disappear.

[Nahlem]

I am more surprised it took so long as it did for the EU market to change more towards Auto then Manual, i remember here in Sweden back a couple of years ago to some extent it still is but rarely these days, people would say "Of course go for a manual" and a bunch of reasons but now days i guess people got used to the comfort of an auto and in city driving manual shifting is a chore to say the least, but i do miss it from time to time.

In Sweden you can still choose to take a driving license for an auto but then you cant drive any manual cars, or choose a manual driving license then you can drive both auto/manual cars.

[jkoral]

So if G87 M2 LCI ends production in July 2029, that gives me until around 2030-2032 to pick up a lightly used (under 5K miles) G87 M2 manual.

Otherwise will switch manufacturer (and by 2030 probably will have to buy used as well).

[Germanauto]

Been trying to cope with the mandated death of ICE and it hasn't gone well. I'm slowly accepting it a little but it still bothers me that enthusiast cars are going to change drastically.

Just feels like yesterday I had my E90 with its lovely classic BMW straight 6, tight and communicative steering, etc. Was at the mall yesterday and saw a lovely E92 M3 parked by an iX...odd seeing them together.

Everything I loved about BMW is going away, some by BMW's choice and some due to politicians/societal cultural change. Weird times to be living in as a car enthusiast. You try to keep your head up and be positive about the future, but it's a tough pill to swallow.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Nahlem

In Sweden you can still choose to take a driving license for an auto but then you cant drive any manual cars, or choose a manual driving license then you can drive both auto/manual cars.

This is in a lot of EU countries the case.
This is why I doubt the m2 will be the last manual BMW.
I expect the last manual BMW to be something like a 116i, if only to be able to be used/sold as a driving course car.
Of course the 1 series shares platform with the mini, so keeping a manual in that platform as long as possible makes sense to me. That market (combined with the 1 series) is huge compared to M2 sales.

Of course in 2035 manuals won't be sold anymore in the EU as of then all cars sold have to be electric.