E90 M3 vs. E92M3

mesier1111 · 10-22-2007, 01:19 PM

Can't wait till the mags start comparing the two so we can see the differences, beyond the obvious ones of one has more doors

m_bazeepaymon · 10-22-2007, 02:00 PM

didnt they claim also that the sedan is slower...
and now that we have a CF roof on the coupe, the handling of the Coupe is a little better?

(don't flame me if im wrong just what I heard)

but im excited for some reviews lol

alpineweissM3 · 10-22-2007, 02:19 PM

We'll see about the handling. If we go back to the e46, the sedan without folding rear seats (like mine) was much more rigid than the coupe. After driving a coupe, the difference was quite evident. I'm not sure if their is a tangible difference in the e90 / e92 or not.....

Sedan_Clan · 10-22-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpineweissM3

We'll see about the handling. If we go back to the e46, the sedan without folding rear seats (like mine) was much more rigid than the coupe. After driving a coupe, the difference was quite evident. I'm not sure if their is a tangible difference in the e90 / e92 or not.....

+2

But they did say that the coupe E92 M3 is stiffer than the E90 sedan, but I'll wait and see how they both drive. I'm leaning towards the sedan myself. It comes down to cost for me. If the E92 is priced higher than what I'm willing to pay (..with the options that I'm interested in), then I will save a few grand and opt for the sedan. I have gotten used to the utility of my 4-door E90 330i.

Robert · 10-22-2007, 02:39 PM

M6 > M5

Sedan_Clan · 10-22-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbo

M6 > M5

Random.........and O.T.......but I have found the ///M5 to be a more enjoyable drive.

....and back to topic!

Not Ur Avg 3 · 10-22-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Random.........and O.T.......but I have found the ///M5 to be a more enjoyable drive.

....and back to topic!

its may seem random, but its pretty on topic...
hes making use of an analogy here...

e92 m3 (m6) > e90 m3 (m5)... is wat i think hes tryn to say
coupe vs sedan, and coupe is faster

ACZakka325i · 10-22-2007, 07:41 PM

I would assume, due to wieghing less, having smaller coefficient of drag, and being stiffer, that its a safe bet that the coupe will be a better performer than the sedan.

Though, im still going for the sedan .

Sedan_Clan · 10-22-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Ur Avg 3

its may seem random, but its pretty on topic...
hes making use of an analogy here...

e92 m3 (m6) > e90 m3 (m5)... is wat i think hes tryn to say
coupe vs sedan, and coupe is faster

Not by any discernable amount. There isn't any noticeable difference in, for example, a 12.7 1/2 mile and a 12.8 1/2 mile.............or a 4.4 0-60 and a 4.5 0-60.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I would assume, due to wieghing less, having smaller coefficient of drag, and being stiffer, that its a safe bet that the coupe will be a better performer than the sedan.

Though, im still going for the sedan .

The coupe weighs about 25 lbs. less. Not much difference at all. Also, coefficient numbers are relatively equal for the sedan/coupe. We'll have to just wait and see how everything truly pans out once both vehicles are on the streets.

alpineweissM3 · 10-22-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

+2

But they did say that the coupe E92 M3 is stiffer than the E90 sedan, but I'll wait and see how they both drive. I'm leaning towards the sedan myself. It comes down to cost for me. If the E92 is priced higher than what I'm willing to pay (..with the options that I'm interested in), then I will save a few grand and opt for the sedan. I have gotten used to the utility of my 4-door E90 330i.

Who said that the coupe is stiffer? Personally, I like the look of the sedan better than the coupe. I think the Titanic sized rear fenders make the coupe look like a fat pig. Not that the sedan is a lightweight, but it's more in proportion IMHO.

Add in the utility of 4 doors and it's a nobrainer for me!

GregW / Oregon · 10-22-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpineweissM3

Who said that the coupe is stiffer?

Autoweek did in the last issue, "...with the M3 sedan offering a slightly more compliant ride than the coupe due to the slightly inferior ridgidity of its four-door body." Keep up here, wouldya?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89916

Quote:

Personally, I like the look of the sedan better than the coupe. I think the Titanic sized rear fenders make the coupe look like a fat pig. Not that the sedan is a lightweight, but it's more in proportion IMHO. Add in the utility of 4 doors and it's a nobrainer for me!

I disagree on the looks, but taste is personal. The coupe is more purposeful. Making it utilitarian by adding 2 doors does nothing positive to the appearance.

I can count on two hands the times I've used my rear seat for anything other than carrying drycleaning, but if you have a family, that changes everything. I do like the folding seatbacks, though, so I can stick my bike in.

lucid · 10-22-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpineweissM3

If we go back to the e46, the sedan without folding rear seats (like mine) was much more rigid than the coupe. After driving a coupe, the difference was quite evident.

Are you saying the folding back seats decrease chassis stiffness here? For that to happen, there must be cross braces or other structural members behind the non-folding seats in the sedan. I seriously doubt that. Any evidence to back that up?

ACZakka325i · 10-22-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucid

Are you saying the folding back seats decrease chassis stiffness here? For that to happen, there must be cross braces or other structural members behind the non-folding seats in the sedan. I seriously doubt that. Any evidence to back that up?

Im sure there is at least a metal pannel behind the seats if no fold-down option were there. If thats the case, then twisting forces will be reduced. It doesent necessarily need heavy duty cross-bracing for it to work.

mkoesel · 10-23-2007, 08:30 AM

According to BMW info the E92 chassis is quite a bit stiffer than the E90 chassis (sorry I don't have a reference but a search on E90post should turn it up). I am not sure how the fold down seats figure in here, but I do know you cannot get an E92 without fold-down seats in the US (M3 included), so I assume the above fact takes that into account (if indeed the folding seat option even has an effect on the chassis stiffness this generation).

lucid · 10-23-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

Im sure there is at least a metal pannel behind the seats if no fold-down option were there. If thats the case, then twisting forces will be reduced. It doesent necessarily need heavy duty cross-bracing for it to work.

I am not sure what you mean by panel. If you mean sheet metal, that will not act as a structural member unless it is absurdly thick (I doubt they would be using thick sheets there), or is supported by other structural members connected to it at short intervals, or has been assembled in a way to have a non-flat cross section to increase its moment of intertia (which would be expensive to make).

The opening behind the fold down seats in my E46 is not that large actually. Which means that whatever is running across the car on the perimeter (above and below) of the opening probably adds to the stiffness just as much as a cross brace would. A cross brace would be more effective since it could be running across and up/down at the same time.

Sedan_Clan · 10-23-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucid

Are you saying the folding back seats decrease chassis stiffness here? For that to happen, there must be cross braces or other structural members behind the non-folding seats in the sedan. I seriously doubt that. Any evidence to back that up?

Per BMW, and tuner info. I know it's posted on E46Fanatics. I can find the info if you'd like. Whether it will hold true on the new ///M sedan vs coupe is another story.

lucid · 10-23-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Per BMW, and tuner info. I know it's posted on E46Fanatics. I can find the info if you'd like. Whether it will hold true on the new ///M sedan vs coupe is another story.

I seriously would be interested in knowing the specifics about this. Thanks.

Sedan_Clan · 10-23-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucid

I seriously would be interested in knowing the specifics about this. Thanks.

Here is the info....

BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg

and...

BMW E9X: Apparently 25% higher than the E46 chassis

As you can see, the sedan w/o folding seats is the stiffest of the bunch.

lucid · 10-23-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Here is the info....

BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg

As you can see, the sedan w/o folding seats is the stiffest of the bunch.

Thanks for the data. What axis are these measurments obtain around exactly? Also, do you know what exactly is behind the seats in the sedan?

Sedan_Clan · 10-23-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucid

Thanks for the data. What axis are these measurment obtain at? Also, do you know what exactly is behind the seats in the sedan?

Well, looking at my E90 sedan, the back of the seat is covered in the same carpeted material as the trunk (..so you can't see any of the bracing). There was a picture posted on E46Fanatics. Let me see if I can find it.

lucid · 10-23-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Well, looking at my E90 sedan, the back of the seat is covered in the same carpeted material as the trunk (..so you can't see any of the bracing). There was a picture posted on E46Fanatics. Let me see if I can find it.

If they have a couple of cross braces running an X pattern, that would explain this.

alpineweissM3 · 10-23-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Autoweek did in the last issue, "...with the M3 sedan offering a slightly more compliant ride than the coupe due to the slightly inferior ridgidity of its four-door body." Keep up here, wouldya?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89916

I disagree on the looks, but taste is personal. The coupe is more purposeful. Making it utilitarian by adding 2 doors does nothing positive to the appearance.

I can count on two hands the times I've used my rear seat for anything other than carrying drycleaning, but if you have a family, that changes everything. I do like the folding seatbacks, though, so I can stick my bike in.

Excellent post...thanks Greg. I'm new to the e90 scene and have spent my first 6 years of bimmer lust over @ www.bimmerfest.com. Unfortunately, there isn't much e90 M3 talk going on over there. So, I do plan on keepin' up and spending more time over here.

BTW, not only do I prefer the sedan styling, I need it as I have 2 boys!

10-22-2007, 01:19 PM	#1
mesier1111 Banned 37 Rep 1,626 Posts Drives: 335i coupe, titanium Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bucks County, PA iTrader: (0)	E90 M3 vs. E92M3 Can't wait till the mags start comparing the two so we can see the differences, beyond the obvious ones of one has more doors
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10-22-2007, 02:00 PM	#2
m_bazeepaymon Major 58 Rep 1,075 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (4)	didnt they claim also that the sedan is slower... and now that we have a CF roof on the coupe, the handling of the Coupe is a little better? (don't flame me if im wrong just what I heard) but im excited for some reviews lol __________________ ZzZzZ'er
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10-22-2007, 02:19 PM	#3
alpineweissM3 I love my beautiful wife! 22 Rep 628 Posts Drives: e90 ///M Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (0)	We'll see about the handling. If we go back to the e46, the sedan without folding rear seats (like mine) was much more rigid than the coupe. After driving a coupe, the difference was quite evident. I'm not sure if their is a tangible difference in the e90 / e92 or not.....
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10-22-2007, 02:39 PM	#5
Robert Major General 414 Rep 6,968 Posts Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	M6 > M5
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10-22-2007, 07:41 PM	#8
ACZakka325i Colonel 277 Rep 2,008 Posts Drives: 2 stroke Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: CT iTrader: (2)	I would assume, due to wieghing less, having smaller coefficient of drag, and being stiffer, that its a safe bet that the coupe will be a better performer than the sedan. Though, im still going for the sedan . __________________ (Waitlist): #1 M2CSL (Current): 2016 F15 X5 3.5xdrive - 2010 997.2 C4S Coupe (Past): 2016 F30 340xi M-Sport -2013 535i xdrive 2008 E92 M3 - 2006 E90 325i 2002 E46 325xi - 1991 E30 325i
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10-23-2007, 08:30 AM	#14
mkoesel Moderator 7509 Rep 19,370 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	According to BMW info the E92 chassis is quite a bit stiffer than the E90 chassis (sorry I don't have a reference but a search on E90post should turn it up). I am not sure how the fold down seats figure in here, but I do know you cannot get an E92 without fold-down seats in the US (M3 included), so I assume the above fact takes that into account (if indeed the folding seat option even has an effect on the chassis stiffness this generation).
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