DSC Problem without warning light?

THE TECH · 03-20-2012, 01:13 PM

I will be having this problem looked into this weekend but wondered if anyone has had similar issues and what they did to fix. This is somewhat a carryover from my Engine Issue thread.

I have isolated the issue to the DSC. It seems that intermittently, the DSC will kick in. It's always at cruising speeds on the freeway where it's noticeable. It could be happening more often, possibly at lower speeds, but it would be harder to tell. Aside from something being unplugged which would undoubtedly call up a CEL, could a bad wheel speed sensor or steering angle sensor cause an issue that wouldn't trip a CEL? When the issue does occur, I can make it go away by turning off the DSC, so I know the issue lies there.

NOTFA5T · 03-20-2012, 03:54 PM

take it to the dealer. You have a brand new car.

THE TECH · 03-20-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOTFA5T

take it to the dealer. You have a brand new car.

I will take it there if I have to. It would require a full day off though which isn't easy.

THE TECH · 03-21-2012, 09:21 AM

THE TECH · 05-03-2012, 08:56 AM

After having this issue since the car was delivered, with the help of my good friend Mike Benvo, we finally figured out the issue. DSC was cutting in and out without warning or any lights on the dash due to the V2 steering wheel being installed incorrectly at the dealer. After determining that the steering wheel was showing an offset even when dead straight, I decided to remove the entire wheel and start checking things out. It appears that when the dealer installed the wheel when I bought the car, they didn't put the SZL back in correctly which was causing the DSC to intermittently come on and off because it was thinking that the wheels were pointed in a different direction than they really were. Once I installed the SZL and the wheel correctly and had the car recalibrated, the problem was finally gone. I am one happy camper now!

Eugene-TAIWAN · 05-03-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

After having this issue since the car was delivered, with the help of my good friend Mike Benvo, we finally figured out the issue. DSC was cutting in and out without warning or any lights on the dash due to the V2 steering wheel being installed incorrectly at the dealer. After determining that the steering wheel was showing an offset even when dead straight, I decided to remove the entire wheel and start checking things out. It appears that when the dealer installed the wheel when I bought the car, they didn't put the SZL back in correctly which was causing the DSC to intermittently come on and off because it was thinking that the wheels were pointed in a different direction than they really were. Once I installed the SZL and the wheel correctly and had the car recalibrated, the problem was finally gone. I am one happy camper now!

I have this problem once. Dealer changed my DSC for me and problem solved.

THE TECH · 05-03-2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

I have this problem once. Dealer changed my DSC for me and problem solved.

It was the SZL making the DSC come on since the SZL was at the wrong position.

Eugene-TAIWAN · 05-03-2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

It was the SZL making the DSC come on since the SZL was at the wrong position.

nice

THE TECH · 05-03-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

nice

Yeah. Replacing any DSC parts wouldn't have fixed anything.

CarinNunnery · 05-03-2012, 10:12 PM

You have a brand new car.

THE TECH · 05-03-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarinNunnery

You have a brand new car.

That is correct. But it wasn't BMW's fault. The dealer installed my V2 steering wheel before I picked up the car and it has had the problem since then. It wouldn't have been an issue if I didn't have them install the wheel.

gallian93 · 05-08-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

That is correct. But it wasn't BMW's fault. The dealer installed my V2 steering wheel before I picked up the car and it has had the problem since then. It wouldn't have been an issue if I didn't have them install the wheel.

wow , you are pretty understanding... i would be be quite upset at the dealer... and assigning 100% of the blame to them...or you are being sarcastic and I didn’t get it

Correct me if i am wrong, but for what you explained the mistake was, this could have been potential very dangerous, right?

THE TECH · 05-08-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallian93

wow , you are pretty understanding... i would be be quite upset at the dealer... and assigning 100% of the blame to them...or you are being sarcastic and I didn’t get it

Correct me if i am wrong, but for what you explained the mistake was, this could have been potential very dangerous, right?

Well I am upset. Mostly cause I had faith that they would install the item correctly. It is 100% their fault, no doubt. This is why no one touches my car but me. They did the 1200 mile service and that's it. The issue that I have with having the dealer deal with it is twofold. One, to replicate the issue, they would have had to have a tech drive at freeway speeds in different situations to make the issue occur. Since not even my wife drives the M, I definitely don't want a dealer tech doing it. Secondly, because they are almost two hours away, I would have had to take an entire day off of work to have it checked out. Here is the kicker though and is just speculation. I would bet that even if I had them check it out, that they would have had to keep the car for several days and would have never figured out the issue. Even with the dealer tools, it took some time narrowing down the possibilities and situation before coming to the correct conclusion. Yes, this would have been covered by warranty, but I would rather figure it out myself rather than dealing with the hassle and headache of days off work and trips back and forth to the dealer. Now that I've personally reinstalled the wheel correctly and had the sensor recalibrated, it works perfectly like it should have from the beginning. I should have just done it myself from the start instead of having them install it. That was my first mistake.

CanAutM3 · 05-08-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

After having this issue since the car was delivered, with the help of my good friend Mike Benvo, we finally figured out the issue. DSC was cutting in and out without warning or any lights on the dash due to the V2 steering wheel being installed incorrectly at the dealer. After determining that the steering wheel was showing an offset even when dead straight, I decided to remove the entire wheel and start checking things out. It appears that when the dealer installed the wheel when I bought the car, they didn't put the SZL back in correctly which was causing the DSC to intermittently come on and off because it was thinking that the wheels were pointed in a different direction than they really were. Once I installed the SZL and the wheel correctly and had the car recalibrated, the problem was finally gone. I am one happy camper now!

Wow, glad you could resolve the issue. One is never better served by oneself I guess. Congrats on the troubleshooting. Must have been frustrating feeling something was wrong all along. Now you'll be able to fully enjoy you car

.

On a side note, I guess it sort of confirms the fact that DSC can do a quick intervention without flashing the light in the cluster...

THE TECH · 05-08-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Wow, glad you could resolve the issue. One is never better served by oneself I guess. Congrats on the troubleshooting. Must have been frustrating feeling something was wrong all along. Now you'll be able to fully enjoy you car

.

On a side note, I guess it sort of confirms the fact that DSC can do a quick intervention without flashing the light in the cluster...

Thanks. I have been able to enjoy a sigh of relief since this was figured out.

Yes, the DSC can definitely kick in and not just quickly either. It would intervene in 5+ seconds at a time depending on the situation.

CanAutM3 · 05-08-2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Thanks. I have been able to enjoy a sigh of relief since this was figured out.

Yes, the DSC can definitely kick in and not just quickly either. It would intervene in 5+ seconds at a time depending on the situation.

Interesting. Would be good to understand what is the DSC intervention threshold that triggers the DSC light.

THE TECH · 05-08-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Interesting. Would be good to understand what is the DSC intervention threshold that triggers the DSC light.

Obviously with this case, we can see that the steering angle caused it. It had an 8 degree offset when the wheel was at center. This is why the DSC was normally being triggered when I was driving on a curve.

CanAutM3 · 05-08-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Obviously with this case, we can see that the steering angle caused it. It had an 8 degree offset when the wheel was at center. This is why the DSC was normally being triggered when I was driving on a curve.

My question was more in the sense of what type of DSC intervention would or would not trigger the light to flash. I undestand in your case that the bad steering reading would prompt the computer to engage DSC but at a level considered to low by BMW to warrant a warning to the driver. So what is the level that would cause the light to flash?

The reason for me asking, is that on many threads people are saying that if you drive smooth enough on a track, you will not engage DSC/MDM. So if the light does not flash, you are doing good. My counter argument was that I could feel DSC/MDM interfere without getting the visual warning. This could lead novice drivers overdriving their cars without knowing. Your thread seems to confirm my impression about not getting the visual warning.

BPMSport · 05-09-2012, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My question was more in the sense of what type of DSC intervention would or would not trigger the light to flash. I undestand in your case that the bad steering reading would prompt the computer to engage DSC but at a level considered to low by BMW to warrant a warning to the driver. So what is the level that would cause the light to flash?

The reason for me asking, is that on many threads people are saying that if you drive smooth enough on a track, you will not engage DSC/MDM. So if the light does not flash, you are doing good. My counter argument was that I could feel DSC/MDM interfere without getting the visual warning. This could lead novice drivers overdriving their cars without knowing. Your thread seems to confirm my impression about not getting the visual warning.

What THE TECH was experiencing was an unrelated issue to what you are referring to caused by improper installation of the SZL.

DSC will make slight corrections without triggering the light. It has to be a larger event to get the light to blink. If there is over or understeer detected, or if there is lateral movement or wheel spin, the light will engage. But it will engage in small quantities (say going over a decent sized pothole) without the light turning on. If you want to become a better driver driving with DSC on is a waste of time. Even US MDM mode is far too invasive in my opinion. Euro MDM is where it's at. When I coded Euro MDM mode to his car, the problem actually subsided in that mode. This shows the recalibration of the DSC system for a more spirted, exciting drive.

CanAutM3 · 05-09-2012, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

What THE TECH was experiencing was an unrelated issue to what you are referring to caused by improper installation of the SZL.

DSC will make slight corrections without triggering the light. It has to be a larger event to get the light to blink. If there is over or understeer detected, or if there is lateral movement or wheel spin, the light will engage. But it will engage in small quantities (say going over a decent sized pothole) without the light turning on. If you want to become a better driver driving with DSC on is a waste of time. Even US MDM mode is far too invasive in my opinion. Euro MDM is where it's at. When I coded Euro MDM mode to his car, the problem actually subsided in that mode. This shows the recalibration of the DSC system for a more spirted, exciting drive.

Thanks for clarifying Mike

. You already have me sold on the Euro MDM

.

Sorry, don't want to

THE TECH · 05-09-2012, 09:51 AM

Euro MDM is nice!

BPMSport · 06-24-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Euro MDM is nice!

I love it... cant believe that the car comes with such a dumbed down version!

03-20-2012, 01:13 PM	#1
THE TECH BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 307 Rep 13,093 Posts Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kansas iTrader: (45) Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00] 2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00]	DSC Problem without warning light? I will be having this problem looked into this weekend but wondered if anyone has had similar issues and what they did to fix. This is somewhat a carryover from my Engine Issue thread. I have isolated the issue to the DSC. It seems that intermittently, the DSC will kick in. It's always at cruising speeds on the freeway where it's noticeable. It could be happening more often, possibly at lower speeds, but it would be harder to tell. Aside from something being unplugged which would undoubtedly call up a CEL, could a bad wheel speed sensor or steering angle sensor cause an issue that wouldn't trip a CEL? When the issue does occur, I can make it go away by turning off the DSC, so I know the issue lies there.
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03-20-2012, 03:54 PM	#2
NOTFA5T Facebook.com/MotorCityRally 21 Rep 280 Posts Drives: Viper GTS, M235I, Jeep JK Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Detroit, MI iTrader: (6) Garage List 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	take it to the dealer. You have a brand new car. __________________ Gen V Viper GTS TT 2015 M235I- Burger intake and Rebellion tune. 2015 Jeep JK daily mud toy. Facebook.com/MotorCityRally
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03-21-2012, 09:21 AM	#4
THE TECH BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 307 Rep 13,093 Posts Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kansas iTrader: (45) Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00] 2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00]
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05-03-2012, 08:56 AM	#5
THE TECH BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 307 Rep 13,093 Posts Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kansas iTrader: (45) Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00] 2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00]	After having this issue since the car was delivered, with the help of my good friend Mike Benvo, we finally figured out the issue. DSC was cutting in and out without warning or any lights on the dash due to the V2 steering wheel being installed incorrectly at the dealer. After determining that the steering wheel was showing an offset even when dead straight, I decided to remove the entire wheel and start checking things out. It appears that when the dealer installed the wheel when I bought the car, they didn't put the SZL back in correctly which was causing the DSC to intermittently come on and off because it was thinking that the wheels were pointed in a different direction than they really were. Once I installed the SZL and the wheel correctly and had the car recalibrated, the problem was finally gone. I am one happy camper now!
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05-03-2012, 10:12 PM	#10
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05-09-2012, 09:51 AM	#21
THE TECH BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 307 Rep 13,093 Posts Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kansas iTrader: (45) Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00] 2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00]	Euro MDM is nice!
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