Winter tires

Echo M3 · 10-08-2009, 04:51 PM

First off, apologies for posting something previously discussed. I tried looking through old threads, but I am still confused about the issue.

I have a '10 M3 sedan on order (delivery imminent) with '19s and I live in the NYC region. Can anyone comment on how necessary winters are? This is my first winter in NYC so I am a little new to the city, although I do have winter weather experience (lived in MA for 5 years, albeit with a 4wd car). My m3 is a DD, so I have to use it about 5 times/week. If there is a freak storm, I can always drive in early to work or stay late, or even cab it. But I can't afford to do that TOO frequently (I'm about 15 miles from work, which in the city is pretty darn far)- hopefully not more than a few times. Could I survive on the performance tires or is this being dangerously ignorant?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice

DP8 · 10-08-2009, 04:56 PM

I doubt winters in NYC are all that different from MA (I live in MA currently). If you are actually going to be driving to work you definitely need winter tires!

The PS2's are horrible in the cold even when the ground is relatively dry. Traction was very bad (scary bad) driving to get my PS2s replaced with my winter set when there may have only been 1 to 2 inches on the ground. I am going to get my winters on earlier this year. I have dunlop wintersports which worked well last year. You can't really go wrong with either those or blizzaks.

psuwcc112 · 10-08-2009, 05:01 PM

I think getting snow tire is a must unless you switch to all seaon tires. I used to drive in snow with my E39 530 in summer tires. All i can say is, those summer tire or performance tire has absolute no grip in the snow. The car basically stuck in the same position with spinning tires...

noxredna · 10-08-2009, 06:46 PM

I live in Philly and drive up to NYC every other weekend last winter.

Just slip in a set of Blizzak LM-25s on your 19inch wheels, they run around $1200 on tire rack. Will last you for at least 3 - 4 winters depending how many miles you put on them.

Big Windy · 10-08-2009, 07:11 PM

in NYC you definitely need winters. I am going to chance it down here in DC, but i have my set left over from Germany to throw on in case it gets too bad. in NY, the cold weather is just as much a factor as is the snow. The cold weather will lock up the rubber on the PS2s.

JPH · 10-08-2009, 09:09 PM

I have survived a long winter in Chicago with the stock tires. I DO NOT recommend it. Unless you like the taste of jersey barriers. I made it through o.k. and am headed into at least the first part of this winter with the stock tires (until I get a temp car in Dec). It can be done if you are very comfortable on snow and ice. But, kinda like Dirty Harry said, "You gotta ask yourself one question...do you feel lucky, well punk, do ya feel lucky?"

kyoshozx · 10-09-2009, 12:15 AM

I live in NYC and I would recommend you get a set of tires for the winter. Even though we don't get a lot of snow during winter times, the stock Ps2 have very little grip when it's cold.

SlammedR8 · 10-09-2009, 08:32 AM

you asked if that would be dangerously ignorant.

my answer is no,

that would be VERY dangerously ignorant and stupid.

Its not worth the chance, the smallest fender bender will cost your $1000 bucks easily, just if you scratch your bumper, and scratch the other car's bumper. So dish out the $1000 and be confident in your winter driving capabilities.

J08M3 · 10-09-2009, 08:46 AM

No issue here driving on PS2s all last winter....

Did not drive them in snow and never would though...

That being said the performance of them sucks (but only in comparison to how well they perform in summer/warm weather). They are perfectly safe on dry cold weather days, and they were definitely safe in the wet but I would not want to push them hard in those conditions.

I am looking for a winter tire to use this year for a couple of reasons. I don't trust PS2s in frozen rain or sleet as we often get in NY winters. I like to drive my car quite aggressively at times and PS2s certainly don't perform as well under 40 degress. I will greatly reduce the amount of miles per year on my PS2's (which are quite expensive). If I do get stuck somewhere and it begins to snow, I know there will be no issue getting home.

I need a good suggestion for NY winter tire. I don't need an all out snow tire, since snow will be emergencies only. I have a truck I drive if the weather is bad.

SlammedR8 · 10-09-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

I need a good suggestion for NY winter tire. I don't need an all out snow tire, since snow will be emergencies only. I have a truck I drive if the weather is bad.

but it would be silly to get an all season tire, because you already have your summer tire. So you dont need the best winter tire (aka Dunlop/Blizzaks etc) but a dedicated winter tire would be your best option, only because you have your summer

J08M3 · 10-09-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slammedm3

but it would be silly to get an all season tire, because you already have your summer tire. So you dont need the best winter tire (aka Dunlop/Blizzaks etc) but a dedicated winter tire would be your best option, only because you have your summer

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Cause they will go on November and stay until about April. But where I live many days of winter are are 40 or more and sunny. Will the Snow tire be a bad choice? It will never be driven in snow, just cold or freezing rain. Would an all season be good for that?

BRDHNTR · 10-09-2009, 08:58 AM

First off congrats on the car. What these guys are saying about PS2's is spot on. Be very careful driving them near freezing temps on dry roads. The car will go sideways shifting gears in very cold temps on dry roads (god bless DSC). I thought it might do it so I picked a very wide road with no traffic just to see the limit.

You should not put winter tires on your 19"s. Get a set of 18" wheels (lots of OEM wheels for sale on this forum from people upgrading to aftermarket 19"s or 20"s). The 19"s will get wrecked in NYC especially in the winter. Also, a pothole will more likely bubble a 35mm sidewall than a 40mm sidewall. Also consider keeping a stock 19" front as a spare in your car with a jack and torque wrench. Potholes will bend rims and pop tires. You don't want to be stuck in the cold. Having a 19" spare with 18"s should be fine as long as the overall diameter is the same and you aren't driving far just limping home.

SlammedR8 · 10-09-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Cause they will go on November and stay until about April. But where I live many days of winter are are 40 or more and sunny. Will the Snow tire be a bad choice? It will never be driven in snow, just cold or freezing rain. Would an all season be good for that?

I mean if your not going to drive in snow at all, than I dunno. I drive in both snow/rain/sleet all of it, so I have winters. Last year I had Hankook W300 (its a performance oriented winter tire, maybe you should go with that). This year I got the OEM 19s, so I ordered a set of Blizzak LM-60s

frenchM3dreamer · 10-09-2009, 09:30 AM

all-season or summer tires do not work well under 7 C which is about 40 F i believe... even if the roads are dry... even more true for dedicated summer tires... under this temp winter tires get superior performance
i would get performance winter tires, (Michelin, Hankook...) this way you gain safety and confidence when driving on snow / ice / real cold pavement if need arises, without sacrificing too much on performance (if need arises

)
best of both worlds in a way... i wouldnt take a chance about driving on 4 hockey pucks with a 60K+ car...
Pat

Grey Space · 10-09-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchM3dreamer

all-season...tires do not work well under 7 C which is about 40 F i believe... even if the roads are dry

This is false. "All season" tires are just that. Unlike summer tires, they work in near-freezing, freezing, and below-freezing temperatures. Unlike winter tires, they will last in warm temperatures.

Here in Middle Tennessee, we don't get much at all in the way of snow; however, temperatures consistently hover around near-freezing in the winter, especially in the mornings and evenings. As others have said, the dedicated summer tires that come on the car are worthless in cold temperatures, and can be very dangerous.

I run all-season performance tires on my M3 from about November to late March, precisely because they work fine in cold temperatures, and still provide some performance when we get a warm afternoon. Unlike dedicated summer tires, I have traction in the cold. Unlike dedicated winter tires, I am not significantly shortening tire life by driving on warm afternoons.

If you're going to drive in winter temperatures, but will avoid driving in snow, a set of all-season tires is probably a good choice.

mwlmd · 10-09-2009, 10:51 AM

IMO the only true all season tire is the Nokian WR G2. Of course they are nothing like a PS2 in the summer, but should work well in the winter and last much longer than a super soft snow only tire.

I just bought a set of 4 of them in 245/40/18 to use as my winter tire setup with 18x8.5 V710 all around. I figured with the ability to rotate they should last a long long time.

Matt

frenchM3dreamer · 10-09-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Space

This is false. "All season" tires are just that. Unlike summer tires, they work in near-freezing, freezing, and below-freezing temperatures. Unlike winter tires, they will last in warm temperatures.

Here in Middle Tennessee, we don't get much at all in the way of snow; however, temperatures consistently hover around near-freezing in the winter, especially in the mornings and evenings. As others have said, the dedicated summer tires that come on the car are worthless in cold temperatures, and can be very dangerous.

I run all-season performance tires on my M3 from about November to late March, precisely because they work fine in cold temperatures, and still provide some performance when we get a warm afternoon. Unlike dedicated summer tires, I have traction in the cold. Unlike dedicated winter tires, I am not significantly shortening tire life by driving on warm afternoons.

If you're going to drive in winter temperatures, but will avoid driving in snow, a set of all-season tires is probably a good choice.

well you may be right and obviously have more experience than me with the M3... however i am still conviced that all-season = no-season...
and since he already has a set of summer tires, why go half-way? like i said before, performance winters offer a good compromise (at least on my car) and out-perform my OEM all-seasons on dry pavement, even on not-so-cold days... that was the idea...

tuco44 · 10-09-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Space

This is false. "All season" tires are just that. Unlike summer tires, they work in near-freezing, freezing, and below-freezing temperatures. Unlike winter tires, they will last in warm temperatures.

Here in Middle Tennessee, we don't get much at all in the way of snow; however, temperatures consistently hover around near-freezing in the winter, especially in the mornings and evenings. As others have said, the dedicated summer tires that come on the car are worthless in cold temperatures, and can be very dangerous.

I run all-season performance tires on my M3 from about November to late March, precisely because they work fine in cold temperatures, and still provide some performance when we get a warm afternoon. Unlike dedicated summer tires, I have traction in the cold. Unlike dedicated winter tires, I am not significantly shortening tire life by driving on warm afternoons.

If you're going to drive in winter temperatures, but will avoid driving in snow, a set of all-season tires is probably a good choice.

Incorrect answer, all-seasons do NOT work as well once the temp drops below about 40F or about 5C. This is a known fact and back up links can be provided if needed.

Echo M3 · 10-09-2009, 02:53 PM

Thanks everyone for your advice. I realize my question was quite basic, but the responses have been very helpful and useful, which I appreciate. I had no idea the summer tires struggle even in dry, cold conditions, which is alarming and means I will definitely look into buying a pair of winter tires.

It appears that there are many different brands and types of winter tires - I would appreciate any recommendations given my situation. Something that could be used in these cold conditions, and possibly in 1 or so inches of snow. If there is more I simply will not drive, since it seems like the risk of damage is huge. Ideally a compound that would be long lasting as well, since it would be annoying to buy winter tires every year or to have to switch them as soon as the ground clears of snow.

Finally, how does this process work? I would prefer to stick with my 19' wheels- the road to work is pretty good, and i
know it well, so the risk of warping the wheel on potholes etc is low. Do I need to buy a set of winter tires only? Will tire rack or another company will
install them for me? Or do these winter tires require different wheels or other configuration changes? I'd prefer a professional
install my tires and ideally store them too - i live in a small
apartment and have only one car, so space is very tight. Do they do tire storage as well (of my PS2s?)

I realize that I could research this online, but honestly I feel that all of you are a far more accurate resource than a biased dealer or tire company

thanks once again

frenchM3dreamer · 10-09-2009, 03:11 PM

i would go with a complete set of wheels + tires for the winter... more money that's right, but much easier to switch, not as much risk of damaging your 19"s when changing tires (if the shop is not careful)... + winter tires in 19" might be a b**ch to find... and even though you know the roads around your place, it's easy to slide onto a curb when parking or even drving slowly, and i'm sure you dont want that on your fancy rims !!
other than that, i think you'd wanna go with performance winter tires to keep a decent level of performance on the dry... i have Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 on my 280hp FWD convertible, they work fairly good...
as far as storage i know that a few local shops here can store them for you, either free or for like $50 per season. not sure about where you live

good luck, dont wait too long

J08M3 · 10-09-2009, 03:20 PM

Any local tire shop can do the swap for you. Only issue with 19s is it might be hard to find a good winter tire for them, and if you do it will be expensive. But it is an option. You do not need to buy another set of wheels or buy 18s.

M GmbH · 10-09-2009, 03:30 PM

I would spend my $ on a used car and drive that on the days that are bad. I would never take my M3 in downtown NY on a snowy day! NYC on any day is rough on a car. You are going beat the shit out of that car.

10-08-2009, 04:51 PM	#1
Echo M3 Major 123 Rep 1,432 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	Winter tires - do I need them? First off, apologies for posting something previously discussed. I tried looking through old threads, but I am still confused about the issue. I have a '10 M3 sedan on order (delivery imminent) with '19s and I live in the NYC region. Can anyone comment on how necessary winters are? This is my first winter in NYC so I am a little new to the city, although I do have winter weather experience (lived in MA for 5 years, albeit with a 4wd car). My m3 is a DD, so I have to use it about 5 times/week. If there is a freak storm, I can always drive in early to work or stay late, or even cab it. But I can't afford to do that TOO frequently (I'm about 15 miles from work, which in the city is pretty darn far)- hopefully not more than a few times. Could I survive on the performance tires or is this being dangerously ignorant? Thanks in advance for any and all advice
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10-08-2009, 04:56 PM	#2
DP8 Private First Class 6 Rep 175 Posts Drives: 08 E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Boston iTrader: (0)	I doubt winters in NYC are all that different from MA (I live in MA currently). If you are actually going to be driving to work you definitely need winter tires! The PS2's are horrible in the cold even when the ground is relatively dry. Traction was very bad (scary bad) driving to get my PS2s replaced with my winter set when there may have only been 1 to 2 inches on the ground. I am going to get my winters on earlier this year. I have dunlop wintersports which worked well last year. You can't really go wrong with either those or blizzaks. Last edited by DP8; 10-08-2009 at 04:57 PM.. Reason: added "can't"
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10-08-2009, 05:01 PM	#3
psuwcc112 Major 444 Rep 1,061 Posts Drives: 2015 YMB M4 coupe Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Dublin, CA iTrader: (7)	I think getting snow tire is a must unless you switch to all seaon tires. I used to drive in snow with my E39 530 in summer tires. All i can say is, those summer tire or performance tire has absolute no grip in the snow. The car basically stuck in the same position with spinning tires... __________________ 2015 F82 YMB M4 (Feb 28th ED, re-deliveried on Apr 18th) \|My 2015 YMB M4 ED Journal 2008 E92 SSII M3 Coupe (Sold) \| My long gone 2008 E92 SSII M3 2002 E39 SG 530i (Gone)
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10-08-2009, 06:46 PM	#4
noxredna Captain 63 Rep 672 Posts Drives: E92 M3, E30 M3, 1M, F10 M5 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Singapore & San Fransisco iTrader: (0)	I live in Philly and drive up to NYC every other weekend last winter. Just slip in a set of Blizzak LM-25s on your 19inch wheels, they run around $1200 on tire rack. Will last you for at least 3 - 4 winters depending how many miles you put on them.
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10-08-2009, 07:11 PM	#5
Big Windy Major General 152 Rep 5,124 Posts Drives: None Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	in NYC you definitely need winters. I am going to chance it down here in DC, but i have my set left over from Germany to throw on in case it gets too bad. in NY, the cold weather is just as much a factor as is the snow. The cold weather will lock up the rubber on the PS2s. __________________
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10-08-2009, 09:09 PM	#6
JPH Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 254 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Coupe Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	I have survived a long winter in Chicago with the stock tires. I DO NOT recommend it. Unless you like the taste of jersey barriers. I made it through o.k. and am headed into at least the first part of this winter with the stock tires (until I get a temp car in Dec). It can be done if you are very comfortable on snow and ice. But, kinda like Dirty Harry said, "You gotta ask yourself one question...do you feel lucky, well punk, do ya feel lucky?"
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10-09-2009, 12:15 AM	#7
kyoshozx Second Lieutenant 31 Rep 218 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NYC iTrader: (1)	I live in NYC and I would recommend you get a set of tires for the winter. Even though we don't get a lot of snow during winter times, the stock Ps2 have very little grip when it's cold. __________________
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10-09-2009, 08:32 AM	#8
SlammedR8 Major General 521 Rep 5,483 Posts Drives: 2019 X5 40i/2020 R8 V10 Spyder Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto iTrader: (2)	you asked if that would be dangerously ignorant. my answer is no, that would be VERY dangerously ignorant and stupid. Its not worth the chance, the smallest fender bender will cost your $1000 bucks easily, just if you scratch your bumper, and scratch the other car's bumper. So dish out the $1000 and be confident in your winter driving capabilities. __________________ Current: 2019 BMW X5 40i - Carbon Black/Tartufo Individual Leather 2020 Range Rover HSE - Black/Black 2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Spyder 6MT - Ascari Blue/Black
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10-09-2009, 08:46 AM	#9
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	No issue here driving on PS2s all last winter.... Did not drive them in snow and never would though... That being said the performance of them sucks (but only in comparison to how well they perform in summer/warm weather). They are perfectly safe on dry cold weather days, and they were definitely safe in the wet but I would not want to push them hard in those conditions. I am looking for a winter tire to use this year for a couple of reasons. I don't trust PS2s in frozen rain or sleet as we often get in NY winters. I like to drive my car quite aggressively at times and PS2s certainly don't perform as well under 40 degress. I will greatly reduce the amount of miles per year on my PS2's (which are quite expensive). If I do get stuck somewhere and it begins to snow, I know there will be no issue getting home. I need a good suggestion for NY winter tire. I don't need an all out snow tire, since snow will be emergencies only. I have a truck I drive if the weather is bad. __________________
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10-09-2009, 08:58 AM	#12
BRDHNTR Ground Pilot 41 Rep 548 Posts Drives: e92 BMW M3 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Waverly, PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2002 M3 [0.00] 2008 e92 M3 [0.00]	First off congrats on the car. What these guys are saying about PS2's is spot on. Be very careful driving them near freezing temps on dry roads. The car will go sideways shifting gears in very cold temps on dry roads (god bless DSC). I thought it might do it so I picked a very wide road with no traffic just to see the limit. You should not put winter tires on your 19"s. Get a set of 18" wheels (lots of OEM wheels for sale on this forum from people upgrading to aftermarket 19"s or 20"s). The 19"s will get wrecked in NYC especially in the winter. Also, a pothole will more likely bubble a 35mm sidewall than a 40mm sidewall. Also consider keeping a stock 19" front as a spare in your car with a jack and torque wrench. Potholes will bend rims and pop tires. You don't want to be stuck in the cold. Having a 19" spare with 18"s should be fine as long as the overall diameter is the same and you aren't driving far just limping home. __________________ "The laws of physics cannot be repealed, even with DSC." - BMW Owner's Manual
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10-09-2009, 09:30 AM	#14
frenchM3dreamer Captain 8 Rep 784 Posts Drives: 08 Mitsu Eclipse Spyder GTP Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB iTrader: (0)	all-season or summer tires do not work well under 7 C which is about 40 F i believe... even if the roads are dry... even more true for dedicated summer tires... under this temp winter tires get superior performance i would get performance winter tires, (Michelin, Hankook...) this way you gain safety and confidence when driving on snow / ice / real cold pavement if need arises, without sacrificing too much on performance (if need arises ) best of both worlds in a way... i wouldnt take a chance about driving on 4 hockey pucks with a 60K+ car... Pat
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10-09-2009, 10:51 AM	#16
mwlmd Lieutenant Colonel 188 Rep 1,548 Posts Drives: Porsche 991 TTS Join Date: May 2009 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (0)	IMO the only true all season tire is the Nokian WR G2. Of course they are nothing like a PS2 in the summer, but should work well in the winter and last much longer than a super soft snow only tire. I just bought a set of 4 of them in 245/40/18 to use as my winter tire setup with 18x8.5 V710 all around. I figured with the ability to rotate they should last a long long time. Matt __________________ CURRENT: His: Porsche 991 Turbo S Carrera white/Black Hers: BMW X3MC BSM/Black
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10-09-2009, 02:53 PM	#19
Echo M3 Major 123 Rep 1,432 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	Thanks everyone for your advice. I realize my question was quite basic, but the responses have been very helpful and useful, which I appreciate. I had no idea the summer tires struggle even in dry, cold conditions, which is alarming and means I will definitely look into buying a pair of winter tires. It appears that there are many different brands and types of winter tires - I would appreciate any recommendations given my situation. Something that could be used in these cold conditions, and possibly in 1 or so inches of snow. If there is more I simply will not drive, since it seems like the risk of damage is huge. Ideally a compound that would be long lasting as well, since it would be annoying to buy winter tires every year or to have to switch them as soon as the ground clears of snow. Finally, how does this process work? I would prefer to stick with my 19' wheels- the road to work is pretty good, and i know it well, so the risk of warping the wheel on potholes etc is low. Do I need to buy a set of winter tires only? Will tire rack or another company will install them for me? Or do these winter tires require different wheels or other configuration changes? I'd prefer a professional install my tires and ideally store them too - i live in a small apartment and have only one car, so space is very tight. Do they do tire storage as well (of my PS2s?) I realize that I could research this online, but honestly I feel that all of you are a far more accurate resource than a biased dealer or tire company thanks once again
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10-09-2009, 03:11 PM	#20
frenchM3dreamer Captain 8 Rep 784 Posts Drives: 08 Mitsu Eclipse Spyder GTP Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB iTrader: (0)	i would go with a complete set of wheels + tires for the winter... more money that's right, but much easier to switch, not as much risk of damaging your 19"s when changing tires (if the shop is not careful)... + winter tires in 19" might be a b**ch to find... and even though you know the roads around your place, it's easy to slide onto a curb when parking or even drving slowly, and i'm sure you dont want that on your fancy rims !! other than that, i think you'd wanna go with performance winter tires to keep a decent level of performance on the dry... i have Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 on my 280hp FWD convertible, they work fairly good... as far as storage i know that a few local shops here can store them for you, either free or for like $50 per season. not sure about where you live good luck, dont wait too long
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10-09-2009, 03:20 PM	#21
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	Any local tire shop can do the swap for you. Only issue with 19s is it might be hard to find a good winter tire for them, and if you do it will be expensive. But it is an option. You do not need to buy another set of wheels or buy 18s. __________________
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10-09-2009, 03:30 PM	#22
M GmbH Private First Class 12 Rep 128 Posts Drives: '97 318 Ti Lemons Car Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Dayton,OH iTrader: (0)	I would spend my $ on a used car and drive that on the days that are bad. I would never take my M3 in downtown NY on a snowy day! NYC on any day is rough on a car. You are going beat the shit out of that car.
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