Proof of OE/Gintani dyno manipulation

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by xchosun1x

i am definitely up for it and jeremy has noted that he will participate in the challenge as well.

I am currently awaiting contact from mike to set up a good time frame
and see if that works with the OE/Gintani people

Stay tuned
Thanks

We're planning on next Friday. Location TBD..

I have contacted Alex at Gintani to see if that date works for him. Alex/Jeremy, please let me know.

[808MGuy]

So, lets recap all 12 pages of this thread (17 if you count the original thread too) to date into a nice short one that everyone can read in less than the 3 days it would take to sift through all the garbage.

- Gintani customer posts a dyno chart showing that his new OE tune got 28 HP more than his previous tune.
- Previous tune turns out to be from Powerchip.
- Powerchip says the dyno charts were manipulated to show the gains posted.
- Other parties jump in and say the charts had to have been doctored because the gains are too linear across the RPM band.
- Powerchip offers to refund customer for Powerchip tune if an independent dyno shows that the gains over the Powerchip tune are true.
- 8 more pages of rants by both sides basically saying the same crap over and over but no response from OE or Gintani
- Gintani finally responds saying they didn't do anything shady.
- Powerchip visits Gintani to prove how the dyno could be manipulated.
- Gintani not happy.
- 2 more pages of pointless arguing.
- The customer and 2 tuners finally agree to get it on at an independent site. Scheduling shootout for next Friday.

Everybody got that

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

So, lets recap all 12 pages of this thread (17 if you count the original thread too) to date into a nice short one that everyone can read in less than the 3 days it would take to sift through all the garbage.

- Gintani customer posts a dyno chart showing that his new OE tune got 28 HP more than his previous tune.
- Previous tune turns out to be from Powerchip.
- Powerchip says the dyno charts were manipulated to show the gains posted.
- Other parties jump in and say the charts had to have been doctored because the gains are too linear across the RPM band.
- Powerchip offers to refund customer for Powerchip tune if an independent dyno shows that the gains over the Powerchip tune are true.
- 8 more pages of rants by both sides basically saying the same crap over and over but no response from OE or Gintani
- Gintani finally responds saying they didn't do anything shady.
- Powerchip visits Gintani to prove how the dyno could be manipulated.
- Gintani not happy.
- 2 more pages of pointless arguing.
- The customer and 2 tuners finally agree to get it on at an independent site. Scheduling shootout for next Friday.

Everybody got that

Alex at Gintani texted me and informed me that they will not have time to address this until after Mfest. I've made my attempts to schedule, I am not going to chase anyone. So please let me know what day is suitable and we can solidify that date. It's in their hands now to schedule with me or they can call Powerchip directly to schedule.

I have spoken with the OP and he has agreed that no one is allowed to plug into his OBD port or touch his ECU until the baseline dyno pulls are made with the current tune installed.

Thank you
Mike

[m33]

why should Gintani have any say at all over what the OP does to his car ? The OP wants the dyno test , so how can Gintani stop it ?
Do they think they own the OP's car ?

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by m33

why should Gintani have any say at all over what the OP does to his car ? The OP wants the dyno test , so how can Gintani stop it ?
Do they think they own the OP's car ?

Because he needs Gintani to flash it back after the PC tune gets loaded unless he plans to keep the PC tune. PC did offer to buy the OE flash so they could load both files without Ginatani's participation earlier in the thread when Gintani was still quiet.

[J08M3]

I really didn't expect a true test would ever go down. Someone always has some sort of excuse. Well... Let's just hope I'm wrong and it does...

[gthal]

If I were Gintani and had nothing to hide I would be all over this shootout. The not enough time excuse is very telling IMO. There is always enough time when protecting the reputation/goodwill of your business is at stake.

[xchosun1x]

after M fest? =/

[klammer]

Originally Posted by J08M3

I really didn't expect a true test would ever go down. Someone always has some sort of excuse. Well... Let's just hope I'm wrong and it does...

Your not wrong and it won't. Someone please make me eat my words... Please

[Draff1]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

So, lets recap all 12 pages of this thread (17 if you count the original thread too) to date into a nice short one that everyone can read in less than the 3 days it would take to sift through all the garbage.

- Gintani customer posts a dyno chart showing that his new OE tune got 28 HP more than his previous tune.
- Previous tune turns out to be from Powerchip.
- Powerchip says the dyno charts were manipulated to show the gains posted.
- Other parties jump in and say the charts had to have been doctored because the gains are too linear across the RPM band.
- Powerchip offers to refund customer for Powerchip tune if an independent dyno shows that the gains over the Powerchip tune are true.
- 8 more pages of rants by both sides basically saying the same crap over and over but no response from OE or Gintani
- Gintani finally responds saying they didn't do anything shady.
- Powerchip visits Gintani to prove how the dyno could be manipulated.
- Gintani not happy.
- 2 more pages of pointless arguing.
- The customer and 2 tuners finally agree to get it on at an independent site. Scheduling shootout for next Friday.

Everybody got that

You forgot to mention that according to the thread the OE tune is ALLEGEDLY a "stolen" PC tune. I think that's important information given the claims of major HP gains of OE over PC.

Seems unrealistic that a company like Power Chip could be upstaged to that degree by an ex-employee tinkering with their own tune. Custom tune versus standard tune argument notwithstanding, it's not at all logical.

According to this thread and others, Powerchip is a company with engineers and employees and a distribution network. OE is ALLEGEDLY one ex-employee of PC working out of Gintani's shop.

I have absolutely no stake either way as I don't own either company's products. I've met Alex and he was a real hospitable guy with a lot of passion for his work. I liked him and his operation. I think we may simply be experiencing growing pains of a small business.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Draff1

You forgot to mention that according to the thread the OE tune is ALLEGEDLY a "stolen" PC tune. I think that's important information given the claims of major HP gains of OE over PC.

Seems unrealistic that a company like Power Chip could be upstaged to that degree by an ex-employee tinkering with their own tune. Custom tune versus standard tune argument notwithstanding, it's not at all logical.

According to this thread and others, Powerchip is a company with engineers and employees and a distribution network. OE is ALLEGEDLY one ex-employee of PC working out of Gintani's shop.

I have absolutely no stake either way as I don't own either company's products. I've met Alex and he was a real hospitable guy with a lot of passion for his work. I liked him and his operation. I think we may simply be experiencing growing pains of a small business.

I didn't forget it, I left it out along with a number of other details. Trying not to stir the hornets nest and keep it professional in lieu of these facts that you mentioned.

You are correct, that OE Tuning is a one man operation and the head is an ex Powerchip employee.

Powerchip does have a wide distribution network with a number of highly qualified and specialized engineers.

I wanted to give Gintani/OE the opportunity to be there on Friday - however - based on the latest evolution of this thread, we may proceed without them to verify the results.

James - will talk to you early next week for the final arrangements. I have a third party dyno operator that is willing to host the event.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by gthal

If I were Gintani and had nothing to hide I would be all over this shootout. The not enough time excuse is very telling IMO. There is always enough time when protecting the reputation/goodwill of your business is at stake.

yes and no though

cause mfest is a pretty big damn event... lots of cars need to be readied etc

but this is all my theory though..

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip

Alex at Gintani texted me and informed me that they will not have time to address this until after Mfest

Pathetic. Hey Alex, if you are reading this, you should understand that you and your boy Jeremy are truly shooting yourselves in the foot by doing this.

Who do you think is going to be at Mfest anyway, people who DONT know about this?

[rbk1115]

After reading this entire thread, all I can say is that this situation needs to be resolved ASAP, regardless of MFest... It is in the best interest of all vendors to resolve issues before facing potential customers at MFest.

[duk]

It's gonna be all over M-Fest if not resolved prior.

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

To be completely fair, it's not like the OE tune is going to cost you power or even equal the stock tune. It's going to be an improvement over stock regardless, so you really shouldnt let this thread sway you to that degree.

We all know that the standard OE tune for our car is good. What's in question here is the dyno chart, which if manipulated, would point to shady business practice more than anything else. So why would they do it?? Simple; if a customer is on the fence between 2 or 3 different tunes and the dyno shows a (figuratively speaking) 20hp gain @ 3,000, the decision isnt really going to be so difficult and that would drive business.

Quite frankly, if anything ever comes out of this thread, it should be that even with the most common vendors that float around this forum, information provided should be questioned.

In short, whatever is proven by this thread doest help/hurt PC, OE, Gintani or anyone else specifically.....It hurts everyone because trust is gone.

Good point. I guess its the "shady business practice" that dissuades me from wanting there tune. If true, it just hurts my feelings that they would try to trick us like that... Lol. We'll see what happens.

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

So, lets recap all 12 pages of this thread (17 if you count the original thread too) to date into a nice short one that everyone can read in less than the 3 days it would take to sift through all the garbage.

- Gintani customer posts a dyno chart showing that his new OE tune got 28 HP more than his previous tune.
- Previous tune turns out to be from Powerchip.
- Powerchip says the dyno charts were manipulated to show the gains posted.
- Other parties jump in and say the charts had to have been doctored because the gains are too linear across the RPM band.
- Powerchip offers to refund customer for Powerchip tune if an independent dyno shows that the gains over the Powerchip tune are true.
- 8 more pages of rants by both sides basically saying the same crap over and over but no response from OE or Gintani
- Gintani finally responds saying they didn't do anything shady.
- Powerchip visits Gintani to prove how the dyno could be manipulated.
- Gintani not happy.
- 2 more pages of pointless arguing.
- The customer and 2 tuners finally agree to get it on at an independent site. Scheduling shootout for next Friday.

Everybody got that

Good summary of 17 pages of info . Funny how out of 17 pages of posts, you have to cut out that much BS to get to the real info .

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Pathetic. Hey Alex, if you are reading this, you should understand that you and your boy Jeremy are truly shooting yourselves in the foot by doing this.

Who do you think is going to be at Mfest anyway, people who DONT know about this?

[StrifeM3]

Originally Posted by duk

It's gonna be all over M-Fest if not resolved prior.

[saeedg48]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

So, lets recap all 12 pages of this thread (17 if you count the original thread too) to date into a nice short one that everyone can read in less than the 3 days it would take to sift through all the garbage.

- Gintani customer posts a dyno chart showing that his new OE tune got 28 HP more than his previous tune.
- Previous tune turns out to be from Powerchip.
- Powerchip says the dyno charts were manipulated to show the gains posted.
- Other parties jump in and say the charts had to have been doctored because the gains are too linear across the RPM band.
- Powerchip offers to refund customer for Powerchip tune if an independent dyno shows that the gains over the Powerchip tune are true.
- 8 more pages of rants by both sides basically saying the same crap over and over but no response from OE or Gintani
- Gintani finally responds saying they didn't do anything shady.
- Powerchip visits Gintani to prove how the dyno could be manipulated.
- Gintani not happy.
- 2 more pages of pointless arguing.
- The customer and 2 tuners finally agree to get it on at an independent site. Scheduling shootout for next Friday.

Everybody got that

good summary.

[duk]

this thread hasn't been update in awhile, any status?

[powertrip]

I was at Gintani today having Raz help me package my MXP exhaust. These guys are seriously up to their elbows in paying jobs right now. They're actually working on pushing two big projects out in the next couple days.

I suspect that Jeremy will be willing to participate once MFest is finished.

On another note, I no longer have a car that can benefit from Gintani or OE's services, but that didn't stop Alex from ordering lunch for me, or stop Raz from helping me package that pain in the ass of an exhaust. Call me a fanboy, or Gintani puppet, but to me that is excellent service.

Cheers

Originally Posted by duk

this thread hasn't been update in awhile, any status?