'11 ZCP clutch engagement much different than pre-11

[Bubbles]

Much more grab, this was confirmed by the chief Tech. He is confirming part number changes. We drove 2 new 2010s then my 2011, it was night and day.

Anyone else notice the change?

[kaykay]

Would love to here what you find...

Subscribing

[Malek@MRF]

Interesting you mentioned that.

I have driven many 2008 and 2009 M3's and one of the first things I noticed when driving around my 2011 was how much more engaging the clutch felt. I always had a semi-bad experience of the M3's clutch and it being too uninvolved.

[BarryC]

Interesting.... First thing I noticed is how light the clutch pedal felt vs. my son's 135. Also, it's not as easy to move smoothly from a stop as the engagement is not that linear plus it seems to require a fair amount of throttle to ensure the enging doesn't bog down. Basically it harder to get going without some jerk/bucking. I'm going to remove the CDV and hopefully that will make the rate of clutch engagement more linear.

BC

[ChrisK]

When I test drove a 2011 6MT last week, I immediately noticed how much shorter the clutch engagement distance was compared to my old 135i.

[Bubbles]

I'm glad it's not just me.

The clutch is much more "grabby" than pre'11 non-zcp M3s.

We test drove two 2010s and the clutch felt completely different. the 2010s felt almost too vague with engagement. I wonder if the ZCP modified the clutch in another way. BMW changed something. The clutch is so light as well (seems more than the additional spring).

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

I'm glad it's not just me.

The clutch is much more "grabby" than pre'11 non-zcp M3s.

We test drove two 2010s and the clutch felt completely different. the 2010s felt almost too vague with engagement. I wonder if the ZCP modified the clutch in another way. BMW changed something. The clutch is so light as well (seems more than the additional spring).

The lightness could be attributed to some sort of variation to pressure plate, and the grabby-ness (if thats even a word) may have changed due to material changes in the frictional pads on the twin plates.

The ZCP is considerably different than the regular M3's I drove previously as far as driving dynamics, so far at least...

[mkoesel]

I have to believe this would effect all MY 2011 and later cars, not just ZCP. Curious to know what changed either way though.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I have to believe this would effect all MY 2011 and later cars, not just ZCP.

Absolutely. The question is what changed, if at all. Doubt anything on the clutch itself changed. Maybe another spring 'update'.

And those with 135s and 335s, please stop comparing clutch engagement; they have ZERO relevance with M3s. Just saying. Until more pre-'11 owners upgrading to '11s chime in, one person's opinion shouldn't count as fact, especially '08 and early '09 owners, with the previous spring arrangement. I'm very happy with my '08 clutch, but like to be abreast of any changes .

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by BarryC

Interesting.... First thing I noticed is how light the clutch pedal felt vs. my son's 135. Also, it's not as easy to move smoothly from a stop as the engagement is not that linear plus it seems to require a fair amount of throttle to ensure the enging doesn't bog down. Basically it harder to get going without some jerk/bucking. I'm going to remove the CDV and hopefully that will make the rate of clutch engagement more linear.

BC

Effectively no CDV in this series M3. EAS checked that right off the bat when the car launched.

[ersin]

So, are we to believe that the '11 M3 clutches are superior to previous versions? Or is it just different? Can't wait to find out.


Cheers.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by ersin

So, are we to believe that the '11 M3 clutches are superior to previous versions?

I could bet my house clutch is the same; simply no reason for a change there. Engagement behavior is dictated by hydraulics, and pedal effort by the spring(s). Hydraulics could have been redesigned, meaning a change in master and/or slave cylinder(s), but I personally doubt that too. And finally, until somebody mechanically familiar with M3s opines, I'm just going to consider this thread entertainment . A quick check for part numbers could start telling the story behind the change...if any .

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I have to believe this would effect all MY 2011 and later cars, not just ZCP. Curious to know what changed either way though.

^
I think you are right, since the car I drove was not ZCP.

[duk]

hmmm interesting... i've never driven pre-11 but my '11's clutch is decently smooth but still grabs a good amount

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

I could bet my house clutch is the same; simply no reason for a change there. Engagement behavior is dictated by hydraulics, and pedal effort by the spring(s). Hydraulics could have been redesigned, meaning a change in master and/or slave cylinder(s), but I personally doubt that too. And finally, until somebody mechanically familiar with M3s opines, I'm just going to consider this thread entertainment . A quick check for part numbers could start telling the story behind the change...if any .

Agreed, but there is a difference no doubt. Of course the remaining '10s may have been beaten up (one had ~10 miles the other was pushing 300 miles). My '11 ZCP has ~1800.

Originally Posted by ersin

So, are we to believe that the '11 M3 clutches are superior to previous versions? Or is it just different? Can't wait to find out.


Cheers.

I'm sure there are many changes for the better and worse (re visors).

[ersin]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

I could bet my house clutch is the same; simply no reason for a change there. Engagement behavior is dictated by hydraulics, and pedal effort by the spring(s). Hydraulics could have been redesigned, meaning a change in master and/or slave cylinder(s), but I personally doubt that too. And finally, until somebody mechanically familiar with M3s opines, I'm just going to consider this thread entertainment . A quick check for part numbers could start telling the story behind the change...if any .

Ok then, let me revise my question. Is the clutch pedal feel and operation superior to pre '11? I won't guess to what extent the transmission has been changed. It may be just another spring change. Unfortunately, part numbers won't be out for a little while. But I am very curious. Hopefully, we'll find out soon and that it is just a simple part swap.

The manual transmission on this car, while not bad at all, could still use improvement. And if an OEM spring or two can make that difference, so much the better. I'm already getting the ZHP knob and am not quite decided yet on whether to get an SSK or not. But I've driven a few cars that had better shifting and it sure would be nice to a better feeling clutch.


Cheers.

[kyoo]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I have to believe this would effect all MY 2011 and later cars, not just ZCP. Curious to know what changed either way though.

agreed - i have to wonder if its the actual clutch though or some other components. people are saying its just components but i'm not sure ab that if the actual clutch is grabbing harder.. could it simply have to do with the fact that these are newer (unworn) clutches? lol

[Dave07997S]

You know I drove 2 E92 M3's that had 6 spd. manuals and the clutch felt different in both cars. A lot of it has to depend on mileage and the way the clutch was broken in.

Dave

[GewoW]

I have not driven a pre-11, but I will have to say that the clutch is a million times more "grabby" than my old 335, but that doesn't mean much. It's a VERY springy pedal feel (that may just be because it's more "grabby") but the engagement point is still way too high for my liking and I'm looking for a clutch stop...

[ploo]

looking forward to more empiric evidence. anyone have a chance to test a few cars back-to-back?

[bikesbikes]

Originally Posted by ploo

looking forward to more empiric evidence. anyone have a chance to test a few cars back-to-back?

I was able to drive a 2010 the same day I took delivery of my 2011. The 2010 had about 300km on it and my 2011 has 7km on it when I drove it off the lot.

There is definately a difference but I wouldn't say it was a huge difference. The 2011 was noticably softer IMO. So much that I felt like I stepped on it too hard the first time I shifted into first gear. I don't think it is more "grabby" then the 2010 clutch. However, with the pedal action being so soft it would be easy to mis-judge the engagment point the first time you drive the car.

After 2 months of driving the car I still feel like the clutch is soft. It's very easy to drive in traffic. I was just used to my last car that had exeedy carbon clutch in it. That was a heavy @$$ clutch.

Just my 2 cents.

[CarForHire]

Interesting.