New turbo Ferrari, not as emotional

[Porschefile]

All about trade offs. Do I prefer the sound of the S65? Sure. Would I turn down a S55 in my car? hell no. You can't compare the power and torque output of the 2 motors, especially with light tuning on the turbo car. The S65 sounds great, and is great if you keep it spun up, but it is pretty torque-less.

^good posts, I agree. Some of the most iconic cars have been turbo, including the F40 and 959 (and yellow bird for that matter).

[happos2]

Originally Posted by HuskerFan85

ill take your unsubstantiated take with no research.

Scarcasm?

Where did BP provide substantiation? Oh wait, they are a supplier of oil, so there is reason why they would want to state the appocolypse of oil...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

All about trade offs. Do I prefer the sound of the S65? Sure. Would I turn down a S55 in my car? hell no. You can't compare the power and torque output of the 2 motors, especially with light tuning on the turbo car. The S65 sounds great, and is great if you keep it spun up, but it is pretty torque-less.

^good posts, I agree. Some of the most iconic cars have been turbo, including the F40 and 959 (and yellow bird for that matter).

Agreed!

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Darth Federer

You are missing the point. Freedom isn't being able to drive your car 5mph in rush hour traffic twice a day for a rat race. Freedom is getting in your car and driving across the country, going out for the night when you are 16 years old, making out with your girlfriend, going 4-wheeling, racing, taking a weekend camping trip or heading to the beach. The car symbolizes that spontaneous freedom. I'm not sure how old you are but when I was a teenager I had so many great experiences that never would've happened without the freedom of the car.

That may be your experience. I didn't get a car until after college.

Living in a urban place means I could go everywhere without a car. Nights out late was not a problem as I could catch the bus and train at night since it runs 24 hours and takes less time to get to places than driving a car across the city. Instant access to hundreds of restaurants, bars/clubs and entertainment venues. And it wasn't just me. Between my friends and I very few of us had cars or could afford to pay for the high costs for operating and parking a car. Besides the occasional trip outside of the city, there was not really a need for a car.

I like cars. Great toys and lots of fun. I do track days, autocross and drive a car every day now but I don't really see it as "freedom" as my regular life would go on about the same without one.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Turbos create power from unused energy, compared to the parasitic losses from say a supercharger. Thus turbos can create more power in any motor. A turbocharged motor can make the same power from a smaller motor but get far better gas mileage when you're not in boost. This advantage is the reason why all manufacturers are moving in this direction as gas prices and the demand for lower emissions increases. When you're using the turbo, they don't get very good gas mileage so inherently they are not just there to get better MPG.

F1 cars in the 80s used turbos to make insane power levels in small motors which allowed for a lighter and more compact racecar that made more power than a heavy V12.

Sportscars in the 90's -mostly from Japan turbocharged many 2.5-3L cars making 280-300hp back when the 5.0L Mustang Cobra was making 235hp, the 5.7L Corvette was making 300hp, and the 3.4L Ferrari 348 was making 300hp. During this time the use of turbos was driven by outright performance and not gas mileage. But turbo technology has come a long way since the 90's.


While the F40 isn't a daily driver, the MP4-12C & 650S are fantastic daily drivers with a much better ride quality than a 458 Italia, and far better gas mileage and far lower emissions (actually lower emissions than the industry standard, not just sports cars for that matter). While it's not at an affordable price for most, if you have the means, they are great daily driver supercars just like the NSX was in the 90's.

At the end of the day, that's why there are opinions and everyone is entitled to their own. Coming from a tuner background, I have always liked the complex sound of uncorked turbo cars with the whirl of the turbo spooling, the NA rawness as the wastegates open, and maybe some flames here and there.

Of course there are some turbo cars like the MP4 that can be daily driven. You keep missing the point of these exotics cars. no one who drives them cares about gas, nor even emissions. This types of cars make up a VERY VERY VERY small amount of cars/pollution in the world.

Of course turbo engines can make more power than N/A engines all day. But there is more to a engine than power. This is such a hard concept for many turbo guys to understand.

Heres what i will leave you with because we are never going to agree . Better believe Ferrari is switching to turbos only because of emissions/fuel consumption. Its not like there V12 700HP engine needs the help of turbos. They have stated there hate for turbochargers over the years. If you follow Ferrari.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

There's more to a great engine than high revs only. What about torque? In every "why did you leave the M3?" thread, the lack of torque comes in first place.

I wouldn't put the gas-guzzling torque-lacking S65 on a pedestral.

Are we talking about a E90 vs F80 ? or are we talking about a Ferrari ?

You want a truly race car feel. with lots of power, lots of revs, you buy a Ferrari with V8 562 horsepower at 9,000 rpm or a V12 with 700HP and a 8500RPM redline. You think the owner of these cars complain about torque ? Dont you think the guys over at Ferrari maybe know what they are doing ? maybe they know what there customers want ? maybe just maybe a high revving, less torque engine might still be very fun on the track.... did i mention how good a V12 N/A sounds ?

did you know even with Ferrari going turbo, they turned DOWN the torque? i laugh every time some one talks about gas and high end exotics. i never cared much about gas, and i drive a M3. How do you think owners of a 300k Ferrari feel about gas? Stop taking about gas.


you want a more practical engine that can help your trip to wall mart be more fun. grab a GTR.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Of course turbo engines can make more power than N/A engines all day. But there is more to a engine than power. This is such a hard concept for many turbo guys to understand.

Heres what i will leave you with because we are never going to agree . Better believe Ferrari is switching to turbos only because of emissions/fuel consumption. Its not like there V12 700HP engine needs the help of turbos. They have stated there hate for turbochargers over the years. If you follow Ferrari.

Not really a hard concept, but rather I find the complexity of the turbo (from a hardware, to power delivery, to driving technique standpoint) far more complex and engaging than a flat torque curve and high revving, linear motor.

The LaFerrari's V12 is pretty awesome, so is the P1's TT V8. But probably the most fun (for me at this time) is a big block torque monster. Still having regrets for not getting a C63 over my E90. Completely different motors but both awesome in their own right.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Not really a hard concept, but rather I find the complexity of the turbo (from a hardware, to power delivery, to driving technique standpoint) far more complex and engaging than a flat torque curve and high revving, linear motor.

The LaFerrari's V12 is pretty awesome, so is the P1's TT V8. But probably the most fun (for me at this time) is a big block torque monster. Still having regrets for not getting a C63 over my E90. Completely different motors but both awesome in their own right.

If i had a lot of money. I would have both turbo and N/A cars. I like them both, trust me. I have driven turbo cars they are fun. But i just like N/A more mainly because i like the rich exhuast note, more than just hearing turbines. ALTHOUGH i still like the sound of turbines, but i love the sound of N/A scream.

I like the idea how you can buy either type of engine. But as time goes on everything is going turbo thats why i am sad.