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01-07-2014, 11:54 AM | #23 | ||
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I'm running the StopTech street pads for both the street and track.
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01-08-2014, 11:50 PM | #25 | |
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The long pedal sounds like air in the system somewhere, maybe in the ABS/DSC pump. There are lots of ways to get air in the pump when you have the brake system opened up for an install. Unfortunately, there's only one way to get it out. That involves getting a dealer (or someone with the necessary diagnostic computer tools to cycle the DSC control computer) to re-bleed your brakes. You've got a great setup and you should have a firm pedal slightly higher than stock with good progression and a smooth off to on transition. For the track, I'd try a set of full race pads. They generally have lower bite than the Stoptech crossover pads and they'll be more linear in application. If you get this right, you'll be amazed at how the braking works. |
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01-09-2014, 01:55 AM | #26 |
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For a beginner or intermediate, pads and fluids are more than enough.
An excellent pad for both street and track are the Endless MX72's. They work well for a heavy car with ABS and should you need a little more bite, step to the ME20's. I have found Endless pads are quiet enough for the street, and are fairly rotor friendly as well. The are certainly not cheap but they seem to last longer than most. Also, Endless RF650 fluid has an excellent wet boiling point and gives you a very firm pedal too. If you don't know about Endless, just google it and see how many Porsche Cup cars are switching over to Endless pads. |
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01-10-2014, 12:23 PM | #27 | |
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I've not yet had the car out to VIR yet to know if I need more than lines/fluid/pads.. decisions decisions... It's only money I suppose. |
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01-10-2014, 12:40 PM | #28 |
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As long as you use good and fresh fluid, something like PFC01 race pads *and* use Ti shims between the pad backing plate and piston, you should be good to go for even very high level driving with R-comps. The Ti shim works wonders in interrupting the heat transfer path from the backing plate to the piston. It also shields the piston dust cover from "seeing" the hot backing plate from a radiation heat transfer point of view. I've used them for years with great success including on my Stoptech BBK.
The Ti shims become especially important as pad thickness is worn down. The pad material is a fantastic insulator, so as it wears down the backing plate temperature goes up (and up and up with more wear) and the heat transfer to the piston of course goes up. From 1/2 worn and on down, Ti shims become indispensable for saving piston dust covers and reducing heat transfer into the piston and therefore fluid.
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01-10-2014, 03:07 PM | #29 |
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Street/Track Pads, SS Lines and Fluid (Castrol SRF)
Like others have said here, don't waste money on a BBK at this moment, the M3 OEM calipers are very reliable. I have decided after a good season at the Nurburgring to stick with OEM calipers and the above I mentioned. Save the money for more track experience (laps). |
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01-10-2014, 05:07 PM | #30 | |
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Also to others: how many people have the dealer change the fluid so they can cycle the ABS system or whatever to get the fluid out of that system? It doesn't seem that everyone worries about that here. Otherwise you'd mix your SRF with whatever crap BMW uses stock. Not sure if that matters or not. EDIT: What is a good place to order the PFC01s? |
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01-11-2014, 05:40 AM | #31 | |
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In the end I can promise you that a BBK is a huge waste of money for you. The V class (production cars) in the 24hr Nurburgring use stock calipers with upgraded lines, pads and I believe rotors from what I saw last year. These cars are nearly production level with of course a cage and gutted as much as possible for weight. |
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01-11-2014, 12:12 PM | #32 | |
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Track days are more like an unlimited racing class, and how drivers use their brakes is a choice that each driver makes - some are easy on them and some are not. Unsurprisingly, many are hard on their brakes and a BBK makes it safer for them and the cars around them. I like that. |
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01-11-2014, 10:19 PM | #33 | |
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For the OP, another consideration would be to add some ducts to the wheel well. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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01-12-2014, 07:42 AM | #34 |
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Nope, I use them all the time. For sliding calipers, at least one company makes them with slots so that they will slide on around the spring clip for the inside pad.
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01-12-2014, 05:41 PM | #35 | |
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When I speak of production car classes in the 24hr Nurburgring they are truly pushing their brake systems to the limit but with having upgraded parts such as SS lines, pads, rotors and fluid they are able to keep it at a sustainable level. This is with of course 24 hours of punishment. If a stock system can take 24 hours of pure punishment with upgraded parts then a regular "track" driver will keep his brake system within a sustainable level of cooling with those same aftermarket additions. I am not arguing that a BBK is NOT good for the our car but the OEM system is great and most don't think or understand that it is. To the OP, when you become a skilled driver you will know that you need to upgrade your braking system to a BBK. If it was me I would take the smart route with upgrading what I have mentioned before. If you have come to realize that your needing a bigger system for cooling and brake force because you are going so fast that you need a much greater braking force then by all means get a BBK. If you want to waste money and buy a BBK because you will feel better with it then do so as well, its your money. I know a few people that do this but I can guarantee you that this does not help them to be a better driver on the track but to have a much lighter wallet upgrading parts they don't need. |
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01-14-2014, 06:45 PM | #36 | |
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I'll bring the cost equation. SRF, IMO, is like longer lasting Motul. Since I bleed my own brakes, I use Motul. If I paid someone, I would put in SRF and leave it for a year.
OEM brakes do not meet 3 of the 5 criteria you listed (easy pad changes, pad selection, last for 20-30 minute HPDE session). No one NEEDS a BBK. Just like everything else on the car, it is the responsibility of you, the driver, to manage its shortcomings. If you are going to keep the car and drive it on the track regularly, a BBK can save you money, gray hairs, and frustration over the long run. Quote:
My STs are much less grabby than the OE brakes which were like on/off switches with track pads.
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01-14-2014, 07:51 PM | #37 | |
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I can live with the longer brake pad changing time, it's not that much of a PITA. |
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01-15-2014, 09:55 PM | #38 | |
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I don't. I think the OEM brakes can't handle the horsepower and weight of the car which is evident under threshold braking. But, OEM brakes with track pads and good fluid will work if you manage the brakes. Meaning you don't drive the entire session 10/10ths. For 30 minutes sessions...the brakes will be the least of your concerns. Cooling will become your top issue.
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01-16-2014, 09:04 AM | #39 | |
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I have a number of events lined up this coming season, so we'll see what my view is at the end of that. I can promise you, however, that at the outset you do not need to spend 4 grand on your brakes.
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01-19-2014, 09:19 AM | #40 |
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As you get faster you'll find that you are managing the brakes for more of your 20 minute session. If you just beat them to death your track pads will wear out super fast. So if that is acceptable...then OEM brakes will work.
My PF01s on OE brakes lasted 1.875 weekends. When I did track my E90, the pads lasted 3 weekends with about 50% of the pad left. I think most will agree that a set of high temp pads lasting 1.875 weekends is a good sign that your brakes, as an entire system, are inadequate. So why keep sinking money into a system that isn't up to far for the demands? Just my $.02.
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01-19-2014, 12:46 PM | #41 |
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I love this thread.
My current line of thought is that I will probably try lines/pads/fluid because a BBK would bump me to another autox class. Ultimately I would like to stay stock. It also doesn't cost that much to run through one set of pads to see if it's a viable option. I see votes for Pagid/Performance Friction/Endless/Ferodo DS2500/Stoptech pads. Anyone try all or most of those and have opinions? I think the ferodos and stoptech I would eliminate right away since they are dual purpose pads. Or are those worth a look? Because I am lazy SRF is going to be my fluid. As far as SS lines any guidance there? Since I have never used track pads I have a relatively dumb question: in regular around town driving are track pads dangerous? Is it easy to figure out how much longer my stopping distance will be? I just don't want to throw them on the car then bang into stuff on the freeway or around town. |
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01-19-2014, 12:48 PM | #42 | |
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01-19-2014, 01:18 PM | #43 | |
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See this for pagid vs stop tech.
If you are a beginner you can start with cheap stop tech street performance and upgrade to race pads once you start going through them very quickly. The nice thing is that stop tech seem to handle high temps much better than stock pads (even the brembo stock pads). Lines don't affect stopping power and feel is IMHO subjective. You can drive with pagids around town but they are noisy and grab later than street pads, which takes getting used to it. I now have endless me20 race pads on brembo and they are much much quieter and better suited for street use than pagids. I haven't tried them on stock calipers though. My best setup for the track on stock calipers was: RS19 Motul RBF600 and no SS lines. With brembos I am still using motul RBF600 but also have cooling ducts. My 2c is that before going full on SRF to try motul rbf600. I am driving the same tracks as you so let me know if you have any other questions. Quote:
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01-19-2014, 04:28 PM | #44 |
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Try the PFC - 08's......They seem to last forever if you don't use R compound tires.
As for driving around town on race pads.....the dust is corrosive, and will eat your rims if you don't clean every weekend.... Ask I learned that mistake. |
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