First impressions at VIR with tuned e92

[Foozed]

Lots of things running through my mind but wanted to get a few thoughts down here during lunch.

Car has test pipes, Bpm tune and gts DCT running square nitto nt01 setup w ST40 brakes all around. (vorschlag camber plates too dialed to -2.5)

Car has loads of power for sure. I'm hitting 150 on the back straight but think I'm going to back off a little this afternoon. At 135-150 the car needs some downforce as the steering gets very very light and I'm feeling it wander a bit. Doesn't feel safe at all (no where near as planted as the cayman) so will be looking into a splitter.

The transmission is awesome. Very quick snappy shifts. No complaints there.
I need to verify my M settings but I seem to be over steering a bit. Could be me - I'm use to the cayman which under steered much more.

Could be the throttle I'm applying to aggressively too. Will work on that.

I want it to be stiffer too. Car rolls around during the uphill esses and you definitely feel the weight transfer.

Tires are doing great and brakes (pagid rs29) faded just a tad but I know I'm being heavy on them.

That's all for now. I'll be seeking your guys expert advice on correcting the downforce and suspension stiffness (sway bar stiffness).

I had the Edc dialed to 2 as well.

[okusa]

New suspension should precede thoughts of added aero. Adding aero to the stock suspension is like putting whipped cream on dog shit.

[Porschefile]

Originally Posted by okusa

New suspension should precede thoughts of added aero. Adding aero to the stock suspension is like putting whipped cream on dog shit.

Very true. Although I definitely didn't feel the E9X is unstable at VIR at 150. Guess "unstable" is subjective, but I've driven a lot less stable cars.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

Very true. Although I definitely didn't feel the E9X is unstable at VIR at 150. Guess "unstable" is subjective, but I've driven a lot less stable cars.

Not sure why you use the word "stable." However, OP did write "I'm feeling it wander a bit...no where near as planted...I want it to be stiffer too. Car rolls around during the uphill esses and you definitely feel the weight transfer."

A high-end suspension will address all those concerns.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by okusa

New suspension should precede thoughts of added aero. Adding aero to the stock suspension is like putting whipped cream on dog shit.

[Foozed]

Haha. I like the analogy.
Ok so looks like I'll be spending the next 50 hours researching suspension bits.

I gained a little more confidence as the day went on but definitely light and wobbly on the steering at 150mph.

Nt01's doing tremendously I might add as well as the rs29's.

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by okusa

Not sure why you use the word "stable." However, OP did write "I'm feeling it wander a bit...no where near as planted...I want it to be stiffer too. Car rolls around during the uphill esses and you definitely feel the weight transfer."

A high-end suspension will address all those concerns.

I disagree. There are a lot of things that a good aftermarket suspension will fix but lift on the front end at high speed ain't one of them.

I agree with OP--at 140+ coming into Turn 10 at Road Atlanta, and the backstretch at VIR, I feel the steering get eerily light and the front end wander also. While I don't think what is needed is full "aero" with actual downforce from a big wing and deep front splitter, but simply something to decrease lift, like a simple lip and a decklid spoiler.

BTW, I've been tracking my dogshit stock suspension for awhile now and it really ain't that shabby right out of the box.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

I disagree. There are a lot of things that a good aftermarket suspension will fix but lift on the front end at high speed ain't one of them.

I agree with OP--at 140+ coming into Turn 10 at Road Atlanta, and the backstretch at VIR, I feel the steering get eerily light and the front end wander also. While I don't think what is needed is full "aero" with actual downforce from a big wing and deep front splitter, but simply something to decrease lift, like a simple lip and a decklid spoiler.

BTW, I've been tracking my dogshit stock suspension for awhile now and it really ain't that shabby right out of the box.

No disrespect intended to those running the stock suspension. Also, since you are still running the stock suspension, you are not a good judge.

It is common knowledge that the E9x on a stock suspension will understeer like a pig. OP is only running -2.5 and the addition of rear aero will result in regaining any understeer he eliminated with the camber plates.

I think most will agree that the addition of aero comes after a suspension upgrade (and ONLY after full safety installation - seat, harness, cage, hans).

[1MOREMOD]

I've never run aero, how would addition of front downforce result in more understeer. Wouldn't too much rear cause that?

[okusa]

Yes, thanks. Fixed it.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by okusa

Yes, thanks. Fixed it.

Okay, wasn't trying to be a jerk. Just thought I was missing something. Aero is on my to do list somewhere in the future possibly.

[bigjae1976]

I think the biggest issue with the stock suspension is that most people run it in full stiff. I think it stiffens up the damping too much...just an from observation from the pass seat. I also disagree with running the throttle in sport mode...way too touchy at least for my tastes.

I have a non-EDC suspension with Dinan springs and -2.3 camber up front...felt fine on Road America at 143mph...but I had the steering wheel straight and I'm not familiar with VIR.

Never ran into under steer after I added the camber plates. The key is to steer the car with your right foot...that's what makes the E9X M3 so awesome!

[Sleeper519]

Added comments in bold.

Originally Posted by okusa

No disrespect intended to those running the stock suspension. I forgive you.

Also, since you are still running the stock suspension, you are not a good judge. Actually I am an excellent judge of how the stock suspension behaves on track.

It is common knowledge that the E9x on a stock suspension will understeer like a pig. OP is running a square setup along with his -2.5*, which will mitigate most all of the understeer and allow his pig to rotate. It's common knowledge here.

OP is only running -2.5 and the addition of rear aero will result in regaining any understeer he eliminated with the camber plates. Mostly agree.

I think most will agree that the addition of aero comes after a suspension upgrade (and ONLY after full safety installation - seat, harness, cage, hans).Fully agree.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

The key is to steer the car with your right foot...that's what makes the E9X M3 so awesome!

Well that's just silly. It may be fun at times and even appropriate a times, but the E9X is not built to be driven that way like a Lotus or a GT3.


Actually I am an excellent judge of how the stock suspension behaves on track.

OP is running a square setup along with his -2.5*, which will mitigate most all of the understeer and allow his pig to rotate. It's common knowledge here.

I only meant possibly not a good judge of the benefits an aftermarket suspension. While I agree that it will rotate better in certain areas of the track a square setup will not overcome the understeer.

[lmcgrew79]

Not sure the aero will make much difference on the back straight as you are going straight and over a hill. The kink on the front straight is another story, you should be at about 140-145 if hitting 150 on the back. I think the kink is much more dangerous on the front straight. The aero on the esses would be a big improvement as well.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by okusa

Well that's just silly. It may be fun at times and even appropriate a times, but the E9X is not built to be driven that way like a Lotus or a GT3.


Actually I am an excellent judge of how the stock suspension behaves on track.

OP is running a square setup along with his -2.5*, which will mitigate most all of the understeer and allow his pig to rotate. It's common knowledge here.

I only meant possibly not a good judge of the benefits an aftermarket suspension. While I agree that it will rotate better in certain areas of the track a square setup will not overcome the understeer.

Actually, one of the best attributes of the E9X M3 is that it is very controllable at and beyond the limit. Unlike the E46M3, the E9X M3 stock responds well to being overdriven. In lower speed corners, you can rotate the car with a slide and it can smoothly put down the power and accelerate...earlier than I can in my E46.

The E9X M3 has a much better suspension design than the E46. Although you can improve upon the dampers and springs, there are better places to spend the money unless you are trying to fix the floating feeling at 140+ mph.

I will agree the car can be a handful in fast sweepers. But the OEM suspension is pretty darned good.

[okusa]

So where would you spend the money before suspension?

[OC3]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

Very true. Although I definitely didn't feel the E9X is unstable at VIR at 150. Guess "unstable" is subjective, but I've driven a lot less stable cars.

Agreed. Hit 155~160 at ACS and the car (on 2-way coilover) felt solid.

[Foozed]

Gained a little more confidence in day 2... Both because I'm relearning ViR now that it's been paved, widened, and eternally different without Oak Tree and learning the feel for the M at the track.
It's amazing how the visual cues of dark streaks on a track play such a huge role in your own muscle memory for making consistent laps. With the new pavement it's all pure solid black. No more rubber lines or shades of grey - just solid black.

The car has virtually no understeer. Unless your driving a bad line too aggressively you really need to force it to get loose in the front.

It's very different coming from a nicely modified cayman R which I still know was much better balanced and planted. The M is faster power wise and I think just as capable as the cayman once I get some better suspension and better sway bars. Power is plentiful and always available which is really nice compared to the cayman. Dct is amazing. No complaints and it's so nice rolling down through the gears under heavy breaking.

My best today was a 2:14 and I'm very sloppy. I know where I need improvement I just need more lap time. Couple vids where Harry's was working. I just got an aim solo DL so will have better vids and data next time. (Thanks Peter Krause)

[lmcgrew79]

Those are good lap times, what tires, brakes, mods? VIR takes a long time to get right IMO. I would like to get my m3 to vir sometime.



Here is a lap in my viper on the new surface. Snow still on the ground

[Billj747]

At ~125mph: 22lbs of front lift and 50lbs of rear lift isn't great:





M3 GTS:

The BMW M3 GTS is equipped with variable front aprons - equipped and heckflugelelementen (adjustable rear wing?). They allow you to make a corresponding adjustment to the route profile of the aerodynamic properties. The activities carried out in the static wind tunnel at Mercedes measurements were made in the factory setting that has not changed even for the practice trials. In this configuration, the BMW M3 GTS features an open drag coefficient of 0.32. The aerodynamic elements thereby generate an output of 64 newtons at the front axle and 290 (30?) Nm at the rear axle.

[8k3]

Question is, which spliters and rear spoilers (trying to avoid a wing) actually provide real aero benefits rather than just being cosmetic upgrades