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11-08-2009, 01:40 PM | #1 |
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Spa Trackday: BIBLICAL FL brake failure (Glowing Disc!)
Today was a perfect day @ Spa with the BMW Circuit Club.
Normally it's always raining @ spa but not today, and it wasn't busy! I fitted my M3 with Toyo R888 245/265 19''. And didn't expect much from the tires but i was really surprised. Nothing beats sliks. But they lasted...and you can save 'em by keeping the steering angle low. Power down was great. I recommend these tires. As a precaution i fab-ed some brake ducts - DIY Here -, upgraded the brake system with carbon composite pads, new OEM discs and SRF oil. Should be enough on a car you already payed 145.000 Euro's for...(in Holland, Taxes don't ask...) After a nice mornin' of abusing my M3, shown here in this vid: (Coming Soon) The brakes where going down and suddenly were gone...I missed the corner, but luckily there was some runoff. I pulled in to pitlane. This is a photographic evidence and proof that: ' THE BRAKES ON THE BMW M3 SUCK!!!!! The are SHIT!...As a professional race car driver i give them a beating. But i recommend everybody to change the stock brakes to a BBK. C 4 ur selfe! Again excuse my Iphone picas.... Yes that's right! A glowing super hot LF brake disk, Like on a F1, IRL and DTM car. After a while i turned the discs with a screw driver. The glowing part is where the pads where. Oeps....what's that abscess on the OEM brake line? That nice rubber non metallic OEM brake line looks burnt.! Does that caliper look well done?...it's burnt! I'm happy i postponed, painting the OEM brake calipers red till after the track day... I let everything chill 4 a bit. Then i wanted to take it apart. You undo the caliper by loosening these 2 screws. The plastic cap are melted. Upon disassembly the brake like BROKE OUT OF THE FITTING! Yes, i was lucky that didn't happen on track! The brake like was kooked out. The 1 (one) and ONLY, piston in the caliper is F*kced! Pads could look worse... The are bent. A sad sight when everybody else with old BMW's with their wel designed brake are havin' fun on track!! The chain of event that led to these never seen before events are: - BMW engineers design and fit the BMW with SHIT brake system. - Customer that expects performance buy's a M3. - Customer upgrades stock brake system to be ahead of the game. - Customer drives the car on track, and it's ok for half a day. - Brake pads wear. - Heat get's to much for the !SINGLE! piston in the caliper. - Rubbers burn piston get's stuck. - Heat burns the pain the caliper. - Brake line blisters. - Brake disc glows up nice and red - Brakes distroid - Unhappy customer, spending even more money on his car that should have been fitted with proper brake in the first place. I drove home in an E30 325 and my M3 was on the trailer. Felt kinda strange leaving the track in somebody else's car with mine broken. I'll be in Vegas for the 9th till the 16th of November. Anybody wanna do me an offer on a BBK? PM me.
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11-08-2009, 01:58 PM | #2 | |
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If you lean on any standard duty part for too long, it will buckle and/or break with sustained stress and heat. Your results only prove that point. It does not mean BMW designed a faulty brake system. If that was true, your results would be widely reported all over the world. And the last time I checked... that was not the case. So please save your outrage for products more deserving of such ridicule. Thanks.
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11-08-2009, 02:13 PM | #3 |
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That is nothing than brake abuse!
May I ask what laptimes you were doing in Spa - of course Spa is very demanding for the brakes, but this is heavy abuse of the brake system! |
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11-08-2009, 02:25 PM | #5 | |
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Ageed. If OP is indeed a pro driver, he is capable of stressing the parts to the max! I think most of us that do HPDE's won't encounter that. The criticism is prolly onfounded for 99% of us, but it is interested to see nontheless.
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11-08-2009, 02:26 PM | #6 |
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Geez you need to learn how to use the brakes that you have on the car.The stock brakes are not that bad and I can say this with a fair bit of experiance.What I see in your photos is big time abuse of the street system that comes on a M3.
I have done 11 track days with orginial rotors & usually been one of the fastest street cars out there and my only mod is Hawk HP+ pads.I have not been suprised by my brakes once ontrack and I do use my brakes quite hard.Overusing the brakes like you have is asking for a big off when a total failure happens.I think the problem is driver abuse not a fault of the limitations of the standard brake system. |
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11-08-2009, 02:30 PM | #7 | |
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Race pads and brake cooling installed + SRF Oil! The LF pads are still fine they have 4mm on 'em. So i didn't use up all of my brake lining... On any other High performance car like the Merc or the Audi you get 6 Piston calipers. And some cool air in the wheel arch. Then they don't fail! Don't act like the BMW M3 brakes are just fine and perform well! The failing brakes on the M3 ARE 'widely reported all over the world'! Autospies http://johncunningham.com/2009/why-t...-track-worthy/ Almost every car show or magazine that tests the new M3 talks about the fading.
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11-08-2009, 02:34 PM | #8 | |
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11-08-2009, 02:37 PM | #9 |
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[QUOTE=J
On any other High performance car like the Merc or the Audi you get 6 Piston calipers. And some cool air in the wheel arch. Then they don't fail! Don't act like the BMW M3 brakes are just fine and perform well! .[/QUOTE] I have witnessed many stock cars with 6 pistons calpers that have had brake problems just like you had.Their drivers also overused the brakes to what they were designed to handle.The only stock cars that can brake at 100% capabilities every corner,every lap are Porsches with the ceramic brake option and they are a $12000 option over an already great brake system. |
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11-08-2009, 02:39 PM | #10 | |
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+1
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11-08-2009, 02:41 PM | #11 | |
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I cooled down for half a lap. Can't imagine how it must have looked on track! Hope somebody took pictures. Check this link, I'm the guy on the top spot of the podium. You can see just how poor my drivin' style is.
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11-08-2009, 02:49 PM | #12 | |
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You abused the stock braking system past the point of no return. Oh, and by the way...'cool air into the wheel arches' wouldn't have helped you in this situation... Unless you direct that cool air into the center of the brake rotor disc (via backing plates), it won't cool the rotor down to prevent overheating. BTW: You actually spent time making improvements...and you didn't upgrade the softer OE rubber brake lines with Sainless Steel units? The 'problem' as I see it...is the person sitting in the drivers seat.
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11-08-2009, 02:51 PM | #13 | |
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11-08-2009, 02:56 PM | #14 | |
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11-08-2009, 02:58 PM | #15 |
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11-08-2009, 02:59 PM | #16 |
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OP, how long were you on the track? I can't imagine this happened with a 30 minute session???
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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11-08-2009, 03:01 PM | #17 | |
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11-08-2009, 03:03 PM | #18 |
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6 laps, with passenger. So around 15 min. On track.
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11-08-2009, 03:07 PM | #20 | |
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I ordered the stainless steel lines, they weren't in yet. But Sainless lines wouldn't have saved my day..
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11-08-2009, 03:08 PM | #21 | |
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Still waiting for your laptime?!
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11-08-2009, 03:12 PM | #22 | |
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Too many hot laps with a 4000lb car does this kind of thing to the brakes I guess. I did end up in the gravel at Watkins Glen despite the upgrades (not that I am a pro driver or anything), and learned this the hard way. Race pads were smoking and fell apart at the paddock. If you were to say that you have not experienced this issue on another 400hp+ 3700lb+ car (which sells for $60k) when you drove it the same way you drove the M3, then we can blame it on BMW engineering.
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