Potential buyer - questions

[Bakks]

I've been wanting an M car forever, but have always talked myself out of them. I bought an M135i a year or so ago given I had a fairly long commute so it seemed a sensible option, but that's changed, so thinking of ditching it for an E90/2 M3.

Obviously I have questions around reliability. I understand the rod bearings are a potential cause of concern, but for ~$3k you can replace these and essentially not ever have to worry again (is this correct?). Additionally, the gears in the throttle actuators seem to break, so potential preventative maintenance. If these gears do break, what happens? Is it a destructive failure like the rod bearings? What is the cost of proactively changing these gears?

Is there anything else to watch out for? Any issues with the DCT box? Full service history is a must have, but are there any other little things to keep an eye out for? Are there any super expensive service intervals?

In terms of year changes, it seems the 2008 model has an old iDrive system, but otherwise there aren't many changes year on year. Is this correct?

As owners, are there any must have options to look out for? Is the adaptive suspension worth it, or a bit of a gimmick? I used to have it in a Golf R and never changed settings....

I don't plan on doing too much to the car, just springs and rear section of exhaust (well, I say that now...).

[brownb_2]

youre in luck being in perth, lots of members and lots of knowledge.
My opinion, go the e90 as they seem to not be everywhere!
if youre going to change the springs anyways dont worry about edc,
get the newer idrive its worth it, i think its 2010 on and you can Bluetooth audio stream as well.
go new,low kms and you will be fine,

its a buyers market for them at the moment. push down on pricing

goodluck

[DaveDee]

I don't plan on doing too much to the car, just springs and rear section of exhaust (well, I say that now...).[/QUOTE]\\



Yeah, right, now we have that out of the way

I guess most of us would agree the E9x M3 is the closest thing to a race car you can own as a luxury daily driver at a reasonable price

The issues that emerge are as you say, rod bearings... not the end of the world but to need replacement as a good insurance policy.
Throttle body actuator gears and the occasional steering rack issue.

The DCT can have a leaky sideplate gasket, but you have to look at the broader picture here. With a good shop to look after your car they are a tough and very rewarding car. Other cars have their issues, like the Audi R8 coking up and requiring a major very expensive service every 20K or so.

Recently I ran a track day at Morgan Park where there were numerous M3s from 2007-2013, well looked after by responsible owners. They were driven hard and fast all day without a single issue, not even a limp mode.
By comparison every 1M had some sort of issue ranging from going into limp mode to blowing out the intake manifold. You can't go wrong with the timeless design of the last NA V8 in a small body which makes for an amazing experience in ownership. Just do it

[American Dave]

springs and rear exhaust...yep that's what they all say

[dnbosiris]

find a nice one and buy it. best thing i ever did.
if you can get it from a dealership then you can have it inspected after buying and get anything fixed under the stat warranty.

oh and i don't find the old idrive that bad. only complaint is it is laggy but you get used to it.

[BanjoPaterson]

Originally Posted by Bakks

Obviously I have questions around reliability. I understand the rod bearings are a potential cause of concern, but for ~$3k you can replace these and essentially not ever have to worry again (is this correct?). Additionally, the gears in the throttle actuators seem to break, so potential preventative maintenance. If these gears do break, what happens? Is it a destructive failure like the rod bearings? What is the cost of proactively changing these gears?

Rod bearings have become a concern. First, from what I can uncover, of the 26000+ E9x M3s, only a small fraction have had RB issues (my estimate would be less than 1%). However, current knowledge is that for about $3K you can replace them with either VAC bearings (which seem to come out good) or BE Bearings (I've bought them, but they're in my garage waiting until next year to install), with either OEM bolts (fiddly torquing and not re-usable) or ARP bolts, which I intend to buy, which have straightforward torque settings, are re-usable and which give a slightly greater eccentricity thereby allowing better oil flow. Note that engines can still dynamite themselves even after a RB change (as one did for DocOc) because of main bearings, but a main bearing fault is exceptionally rare.

As for the throttle actuators, the common wisdom is that the plastic-on-plastic reduction gears wear, causing the cheap electronics to compensate and overhead. Usually this blows a MOSFET and causes the car to go into limp mode, which is about the worst that happens. The problem is that the OEM replacement parts are about $1000+ per actuator, you need to buy two since if one goes the other's likely to as well, and it's expensive to get them replaced.

HOWEVER, if the reduction gears are changed before things go awry then the life of the electronics SHOULD be increased. I bought a brass-delrin set from Alpina527 in the UK for 400 pounds (see this thread http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94742) and had them replaced about 20,000km ago with no problems. There is now a cottage industry around these actuators, so you can shop at http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...pg2.htm#item13 plus http://www.i6automotive.co.uk/136278...air-kit-gears/ plus some others. In my case, when I examined the actuators taken out, they didn't look bad so hopefully dodged the problem.

Again, this should be a once only job (PS best to do BOTH actuators.

Originally Posted by Bakks

Is there anything else to watch out for? Any issues with the DCT box? Full service history is a must have, but are there any other little things to keep an eye out for? Are there any super expensive service intervals?

Leaks from the DCT oil pan are not uncommon, since it's a sh*tty plastic item, and despite the "sealed-for-life", I'd get the DCT oil changed at 60,000-80000km intervals. That's not too expensive, in the run of things. As it happened, my DCT oil pan plus seals were leaking and I got them replaced under warranty at about 65,000km, so nothing much to do for another few years. Replacing the DCT oil shouldn't set you back more than $700-800 at a guess. The oil is the expensive bit as they have to milk the golden oil-goats of Mount Olympus with siren songs in the background... ok, that may be an exaggeration, but at the price you pay for the Pentosin oil it feels that's what they should be doing.

LSD oil should be changed regularly and, in speaking with DriftFlo recently, the LSD should probably be changed every 120-150,000 miles (about 160,000km) since it's a OS gilken clutch type LSD and the clutch plates wear.

I suspect the DCT clutch plates will eventually wear, but I'm thinking that unless you use launch control on a daily basis they should have a life of (at least) over 250,000-300,000km. To put it in perspective, my daughters 2007 VW Jetta uses a 6 speed wet-place clutch and is on 220,000km still with good launch grip (as I tested this morning, he he he). Hopefully by the time I'm thinking about replacing the clutch plates it will be common and they'll come down to the VW Jetta clutch plate prices of $800-1000.

Overall the car's very well built. Oh year, the dash air flow controls are made from the rubbish plastic and I've already replaced driver's side (ebay part plus my own time) and centre (OEM part and my Indy mechanic). However, in most cars these are not disposable items... bummer.

Originally Posted by Bakks

As owners, are there any must have options to look out for? Is the adaptive suspension worth it, or a bit of a gimmick? I used to have it in a Golf R and never changed settings....

I've got the EDC and, to be truthful, I only use it in comfort mode, occassionally sports mode. Nevertheless, one thing to consider is that if you're selling this car in the future then people will be concerned to have all the features, use them or not. It's like my M button. I must be doing something wrong because I rarely touch it and when I do a speed van happens to be 500 metres ahead. *sigh*

I've got the updated iDrive, which is a good feature to have although you won't miss out by have the 2008 iDrive. My car doesn't have the stop-start or the other 2010.5 + features, so can't comment.

Overall, as someone one said in a post on this forum, you don't hear Porsche 911 drivers discuss their car's air con or window power buttons as much as how much fun they're having (or the intermediate shaft bearing [IMS] problems). They just drive.

My 2 cents.

[dean87]

^brilliant post

[Bakks]

As above! Great post, thanks for the comprehensive reply Banjo. It sounds like if I budget $5k for preventative maintenance off the bat then it should be a fairly reliable car.

Originally Posted by DaveDee

Recently I ran a track day at Morgan Park where there were numerous M3s from 2007-2013, well looked after by responsible owners. They were driven hard and fast all day without a single issue, not even a limp mode.
By comparison every 1M had some sort of issue ranging from going into limp mode to blowing out the intake manifold. You can't go wrong with the timeless design of the last NA V8 in a small body which makes for an amazing experience in ownership. Just do it

Well I haven't driven my M135i in a month because of a blown chargepipe, so I know what you are talking about!

[Ski1]

M3 2011 E92 M3 is my daily drive. Getting 9.7km/L at moment after BPM tune - and I'm still using the loud pedal just for the fun of it. DCT seems very solid and reliable after numerous track days at 100%.
EDC is great for me. Comfort for daily town work - Normal with the M-button, and Sport for track days (or club drives on good roads) - works for me.

[Rocket_Rod]

We are moving towards cars where the connection between driver and machine is separated by massive amounts of computer code.

Its a real shame that turbos are replacing cubic inches and Audio Speakers are replacing throbbing exhaust notes.

A 4ltr V8 that revs to over 8k is something to marvel. So if you are chasing the fastest car from standing start to 100 you probably should not consider this car.

But if you want something that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up every time the tacho needle climbs past 5k, or something that sounds tough while just idling at the lights, this is the car for you.

There is no school like the old school and the M3 in E9X guise is the Head Master!

[dnbosiris]

Originally Posted by Rocket_Rod

We are moving towards cars where the connection between driver and machine is separated by massive amounts of computer code.

Its a real shame that turbos are replacing cubic inches and Audio Speakers are replacing throbbing exhaust notes.

A 4ltr V8 that revs to over 8k is something to marvel. So if you are chasing the fastest car from standing start to 100 you probably should not consider this car.

But if you want something that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up every time the tacho needle climbs past 5k, or something that sounds tough while just idling at the lights, this is the car for you.

There is no school like the old school and the M3 in E9X guise is the Head Master!

Well said. It's such a special car this one.

[cplagz]

Oh no, not this guy!

I can take you for a spin in my E90 M3 if you want Bakks. Full M3world exhaust, BPM stage 2 + DCT tune and eibach springs w/EDC (which I must be odd because I often use it).... then you can buy brown's grey one he has F/S

[MFKN3]

Get the newest, lowest km M3 you can afford is my advice. The bearings are a real problem and no year seems to be immune.

I recommend the EDC as being worthwhile and it still works with most aftermarket suspension setups too. The 2009 had slightly updated tacho and idrive over the '08.

[Ingenio]

I know the idrive was updated but what changed re the tacho?

[MFKN3]

Originally Posted by Ingenio

I know the idrive was updated but what changed re the tacho?

I recall minor instruments changes and a very small difference with a couple buttons/features near the a/c and heaters. All very minor really.

[Ingenio]

Is that a comparison? I can't see any difference apart from the tacho lights but I think that only happened for DCTs not 6MTs....

Oh... And the gap between the dials and the display panels is smaller I think....

[Bakks]

Originally Posted by cplagz

Oh no, not this guy!

I can take you for a spin in my E90 M3 if you want Bakks. Full M3world exhaust, BPM stage 2 + DCT tune and eibach springs w/EDC (which I must be odd because I often use it).... then you can buy brown's grey one he has F/S

Thanks for the offer - I'm going to test drive some soon and then see how if they offer that "X" factor I'm looking for. Then the games begin.....

[m3toboot]

re tacho, dct has shift lights

[Rocket_Rod]

Originally Posted by m3toboot

re tacho, dct has shift lights

ha ha ha an Auto with shift light..... must come from the same mob that brought us exhaust notes you can tune through your stereo.....

[MFKN3]

yeh very negligible. I think the fascia near the a/c controls was slightly different too

[dean87]

Originally Posted by Rocket_Rod

ha ha ha an Auto with shift light..... must come from the same mob that brought us exhaust notes you can tune through your stereo.....

you do realise DCT's can "shift" also right?

[Rocket_Rod]

Originally Posted by dean87

you do realise DCT's can "shift" also right?

If by "shift" you mean flicking the paddle and letting the car do the rest... yeah.