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07-11-2012, 08:32 AM | #1 |
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Few laps of Watkins Glen
Just got back from a two-day event at Watkins Glen with SCDA yesterday. It's my third time at the Glen, but each time I marvel at what an amazing place it is. It's one of the most historically significant North American road courses, it's fast and flowing, and it's in a beautiful setting in New York's Finger Lakes region, not too far from Cornell University/Ithaca.
The weather was great--80s and sunny. My previous times at the Glen have been in the spring and fall, when rain/fog and temps in the 40s are not uncommon. It was definitely the right call to hit the track in July this year. SCDA, as usual, was a friendly, well-run group, with a good mix of cars. A couple of other E9X M3s, a few stripped-out E36 and E46 M3s, two '70s Datsun 510 race cars!, numerous Z06s, a few GTRs, a fast Golf R32, a few Lotuses, 911s of various types, and three retired NASCAR-type racers--two stock cars and an ARCA truck. I ran in Intermediate the first day. Even though I've been running solo for a while, I ran across a guy I know from prior events who was instructing. He offered to ride with me for a couple of sessions--fantastic idea. He gave me some invaluable suggestions and tips for an improved line at the Glen. He was very impressed with the abilities of the StopTech ST60/ST40 setup with Pagid RS29s. I also rode with him for one of his sessions. He has a 135i that he has modified. The engine is basically stock, but he has stripped about 400lbs of weight out of the car. The interior is gutted, he has a half-cage, race seats and harnesses, coilovers, and a BBK on the front. He also removed and blanked out the sunroof, changed the hood to carbon fiber, and replaced the front fenders with a wide-body kit so he can run a 275/35-18 Nitto NT01 square setup. Very fast and fun car to ride in. I bumped up to Advanced the second day and did well, but the speed of some of the other cars was pretty insane. There were two GT3s that were in various stages of race prep. One had the usual cage and suspension upgrades, but the other one started as a stock GT3RS and now looks like an ALMS GT car. The closing speeds were amazing as he rocketed up behind me. In the video at about 1:40 you can see him pass me as we come out of the toe of the boot. It was a bit nerve-wracking. I was coming up fast on the red Corvette as we approached the toe, while the GT3RS was coming up fast on me. There's obviously no passing in the turn, so as soon as we came out of the toe, the Corvette pointed me by and then I immediately pointed the 911 by. We were basically three-wide and as he passes you can see him stick his hand out the window--not sure if he was saying thanks or giving me the two-finger salute... In an earlier session that day he took a late pass on me as we approached the bus stop at 125+mph--he was following a GTR as they came up behind me. I gave the GTR the point-by, but there wasn't enough room for the GT3RS to make the pass as well as we came into the bus stop, so I didn't point him by yet. Nevertheless, he dive-bombed me on the inside. I'm glad I was aware that he was in my mirrors one second, and then had disappeared into my blind spot the next, because otherwise I would have swept to the right and collected him as we came into the bus stop. Anyway, enjoy. Comments welcome. Last edited by paradocs98; 07-11-2012 at 08:40 AM.. |
07-11-2012, 07:50 PM | #2 |
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After 6 days of driving and instructing at WGI I think I can offer some useful comments from what I saw on your video.The 1st thing that surprised me is how low an RPM that you are shifting at if the video is accurate.I found that in the past that short shifting by 1000 rpm made me about 7 mph slower up a 3/4 mile uphill straight.
The lap. Could be a lot tighter on c1 with a lot more speed as you use the curb on exit without upsetting the car at all which allows more speed into C2 which should only be short lift with maybe a little dab of the brakes to help the car turn in with a little less sliding.Once you are going uphill you should be flat until the braking area for the bus stop.I grab 5th gear exiting the last S over the bridge and touch the limiter in 5th at about the 500 brake marker,so I hold the limiter till the 300 marker where I brake. I have found that I can use 4th gear through the bus stop and make a pile of time up on other people by placing the car completely over the 1st turtle and braking lightly to the 2nd turtle which you use a lot of also,where you start turning the car to the left and balance the car with the throttle till the last turtle where you are already on full throttle into a tighter line in 5 where I use a lift & a little brake to get the car turning to keep a tight line going downhill to the apex.From there to 6 I am at full throttle where I use a tighter line than you do.Going wider there seems to be slower than using the inside on entry. Corner 7 I keep the car mostly inside the concrete where there is a lot more grip and you can brake quite late there with no problems with getting a great exit.C8 is just a standard apex corner and I touch the limiter in 3rd on the run to C9 which is tighter line to keep you inside the sealer as much as possible.Corner 10 is a 4th gear corner with mild braking and tracking right out to the curbing and swinging out to the left and 3rd for corner 11 to have another fun lap.I love this track |
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07-11-2012, 07:59 PM | #3 | |
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I seem to be coming out of the esses onto the back straight at about 110mph, and the car gets to just about 130mph (accurate, by GPS--probably mid- to high-130s on speedo) before I feel I need to start braking for the bus stop. I might be able to gradually push the braking zone a bit deeper, but the way you hop over the curbs going into the bus stop, it feels like the car is briefly unsettled until it regains composure just in time to come out of the bus stop. The M3 is an amazing car, but I can definitely see where it would be advantageous to have a Z06 or something with a similar power-to-weight ratio in picking up better top-end acceleration coming out of the esses onto the back straight. My M3 sedan has a Dinan Stage III suspension (about -2.4 camber front, -2.0 rear), StopTech ST60/ST40 brakes with Pagid RS29 pads, and a couple of stray Cheerios on the floor. Kid car seats removed for the track, though. |
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07-11-2012, 08:35 PM | #5 |
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Thanks much for posting! I am relocating to Seattle next month, and will miss my favorite track so much.
As others have mentioned, you are pretty smooth, but can tighten corner one, which would allow you to carry more speed thru the esses, and carry more speed into the back straight. In my 135i, I was braking at 151mph indicated (prob ~140 actual), and I know the M3 could at least equal that. At higher speeds, be careful feathering the throttle thru 3 & 4, as your car can get very unweighted there, and trust the amazing amounts of extra grip the concrete strips give you. The further inside you are, the more camber on the road there is. (you know what I mean, if you've done a track walk before) Gonna sorely miss WGI & LCMT out on the left coast. |
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07-11-2012, 09:26 PM | #6 |
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How do you like the feel of the stoptechs? Sometimes I feel like mine bite too soon and too hard making finite modulation more of a chore. Not so much of a issue on track where more pedal pressure is needed but smooth street driving is compromised since the pedal bites immediately in the travel.
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07-11-2012, 09:45 PM | #7 |
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That looks like one fun and scary track. Those railings are Nice video and driving and sounds like some excellent advice coming from the crowd
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07-11-2012, 10:26 PM | #8 |
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07-12-2012, 06:19 AM | #9 |
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07-12-2012, 08:34 AM | #10 | |
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Have you been to the Glen in recent months? Our event organizers warned us to stay off of the exit curbing in turn 1 because they said it was recently raised and would upset the car. Maybe it can still be used partially, though? I'll refer back to this thread when I go up to the Glen next time so I can employ some of the tips. So I have a reference, what are your typical lap times there for an E9X M3? Thanks again. |
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07-12-2012, 08:47 AM | #11 | |
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07-12-2012, 08:49 AM | #12 | |
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07-12-2012, 09:21 AM | #13 | |
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07-12-2012, 09:30 PM | #14 |
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The railings were what originally kept me away from the Glen. After having been there (and been a passenger on flying laps with Gearhead999s himself), I can't get this track out of my head. Most of the areas with railings are well cambered, so unless you really get out of shape, they don't factor in at all. Going up through the esses, the video makes things look pretty narrow, but there's a lot of room. The Glen is a must for any track junkie!
Last edited by sawzall; 07-12-2012 at 09:35 PM.. |
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07-13-2012, 10:14 PM | #15 | |
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07-13-2012, 10:21 PM | #16 | |
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07-13-2012, 11:00 PM | #17 | |
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07-18-2012, 10:48 AM | #18 | |
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well this helps explain why I was so much faster through the "Busstop"this year.
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07-18-2012, 11:46 AM | #19 |
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Apparently they also brought the Armco closer to the track at the entrance of the Bus Stop. My instructor noted this--he typically runs over the entire curbing on entry, but flinched a bit when he saw how close those baby blue rails are now...
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07-18-2012, 12:01 PM | #20 |
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A few feet at 100 mph is not going to mean the difference between hitting the baby blues or not
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07-26-2012, 07:19 AM | #21 |
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Fun video - I signed up to go to Watkins Glen with BMW CCA Genesee Valley on September 22 and 23. So far I've only done 1 event (NJMP) and I'll have done one more (again at NJMP) before this one, so I'll be in the novice group. Can't wait! Will I see any of you there? I will definitely watch this video a lot before 9/22.
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07-28-2012, 10:44 AM | #22 | |
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