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      07-25-2010, 05:13 AM   #265
pride355
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Last final word (I don't want to make it longer):

M3's 8:05 time (manual car with MSC tires) and 8:05 - 8:02 time of 997.1 Carrera S (manual car with PASM) were all lapped by Horst Von Saurma; they were Sport Auto Super Test.

On the other hand 7:50 time of Carrera S (997.2 with PDK + SC + S-PASM on MSC tires) and 7:58 time (with a manual car) and 7:59 time of 997.1 Carrera S w/manual tranny + sports chassie (LSD) were done by Walter Röhrl.

It is a known fact that Walter Röhrl is always quicker than H.V. Saurma in a 911.
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      07-25-2010, 01:08 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
No matter which way you slice it the 997.2S wether its a manual or PDK has a significant margin over the m3 wether its a manual or dct.
We all know that a 1-2 second faster lap on a 2 minute course is a lot. The 997.2 S has a margin of at of between 7-15 seconds vs the m3 which if you extrapolate based on 2 seconds being a large maring on a 2 minute course, even 7 seconds on the ring is a much faster time, let alone 15 seconds.
The time of 8:05 for the M3 was done on Cup+ tires. This car also had upgraded brake pads which without a doubt had some effect on time. Here is the link where you can clearly see the tires are MPSC+.
http://www.sportauto-online.de/super...d-1036129.html

Even the 997.1 was in Walter's hands did 7:59. Thats a good margin. The 997.2S with PDK ran 7:50 on Cups and is clearly on a level above the m3.
Either way...you can argue semantics and variables all day long, but fact remains that the 997.2S in either transmission if a faster car than any e9X m3 with either transmission.



I think you a mixing up one thing. The 997.2S with manual was only QUOTED at 7:58. I dont think theres an official time for the car actually havnt been run ASAIK. Im sure it would be in ~7:53-7:55 range.
On another note...of course Rohl is faster in the 911 than Saurma, he knows how to get more out of it than Saurma does...which you just proved the point that the 911 IS faster because Saurma cannot extract as much out of a 911 than is truly capable. He maybe be able to extract 95% of the m3s max potential, while only being able to extract 90% of the 911's max and is still able to get better laps times at only 90% potential in the 911 than he can with 95% of the m3s potential.


Right on all points. But as I said earlier, I don't think the debate here is really about the fact that the Porsche is faster. There's just something about some BMW owners who, psychologically, refuse to accept that the car above theirs is faster. And these are the people who are not worth the time and effort. Let them be.
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      07-25-2010, 06:22 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post

The time of 8:05 for the M3 was done on Cup+ tires. This car also had upgraded brake pads which without a doubt had some effect on time. Here is the link where you can clearly see the tires are MPSC+.
Cup+ tires YES.
Upgraded brake pads, ımmmm, NO.

If you run a 6-lap race, upgraded pads help, BUT Sport Auto timed laps are done in 1 or 2 laps. So the upgraded pads don't help for the supertest time. M3's brake problem is not stopping power. The problem is with durability and fade.
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      07-25-2010, 06:25 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I think you a mixing up one thing. The 997.2S with manual was only QUOTED at 7:58. I dont think theres an official time for the car actually havnt been run ASAIK. Im sure it would be in ~7:53-7:55 range.
7:50 and 7:58 times are both mention in the same article. 997.2 Carrera S with PDK + SC + S-PASM + cup+ tires are never tested on the Ring by Sport Auto or any Car magazine.

So why do you take the 7:50 time as granted and 7:58 as QUOTED
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      07-25-2010, 06:28 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
On another note...of course Rohl is faster in the 911 than Saurma, he knows how to get more out of it than Saurma does...which you just proved the point that the 911 IS faster because Saurma cannot extract as much out of a 911 than is truly capable. He maybe be able to extract 95% of the m3s max potential, while only being able to extract 90% of the 911's max and is still able to get better laps times at only 90% potential in the 911 than he can with 95% of the m3s potential.
How do you know this?
I think you have a talk on this with Saurma

This is becoming ridiculous. I give up.
I accept the fact that 997.2 Carrera S w/PDK + SC is a faster car than E92 M3, anyway.
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      07-26-2010, 01:36 PM   #270
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experience is e46 M3 stock vs stock 997 non-s = eqaual in the straights.


i would think e92 would do better. also could be driver error.
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      07-26-2010, 01:40 PM   #271
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Also - this guy pretty much wanted to know a drag-race right?

i just watched a top-gear last night comparing an 05 (06?) 997 with Aston vantage v8 and m6. Everyone said the M6 was faster - holy cow does it pull etc. BUT the stig managed to eek out a time >>> than everything around a wet course on the isle of man with the porsche. (granted this wasn't PDK - i don't think - but it was the stig which should be better than PDK right? after all he's part man part... something).

Still - bringing this back into my analysis of the above discussions: yes the porsche should have better ring times but that means nothing for a drag race. In a drag my money is on the M.
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      07-26-2010, 02:52 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pride355 View Post
7:50 and 7:58 times are both mention in the same article. 997.2 Carrera S with PDK + SC + S-PASM + cup+ tires are never tested on the Ring by Sport Auto or any Car magazine.

So why do you take the 7:50 time as granted and 7:58 as QUOTED
LOL the obvious.

maybe porsche is paying a bunch of guys that wander around different forum. this is the only reason i can think of. i came across shif@red post in gt3 forum on 6speedonline and he was saying people in m3post are fanboy, etc...i can't think of anyone that would waste so much time doing this unless they get pay by porsche.
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      07-26-2010, 06:07 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
LOL the obvious.

maybe porsche is paying a bunch of guys that wander around different forum. this is the only reason i can think of. i came across shif@red post in gt3 forum on 6speedonline and he was saying people in m3post are fanboy, etc...i can't think of anyone that would waste so much time doing this unless they get pay by porsche.
haha
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      07-28-2010, 01:42 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
LOL the obvious.

maybe porsche is paying a bunch of guys that wander around different forum. this is the only reason i can think of. i came across shif@red post in gt3 forum on 6speedonline and he was saying people in m3post are fanboy, etc...i can't think of anyone that would waste so much time doing this unless they get pay by porsche.
Being a member of 6speedonline as well as Rennlist along with a host of BMW boards as well (M3post, M3forum, roadfly and bimmerforums) I can assure you that the non BMW sites have fanbois as well. I came from a 997 into an E92 M3 I can assure you I feel the 997S will be a better track toy all in all. However, a car that you have to live with day in and out, well I made my choice..sold the 997 and bought my E92.

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