Has BMW positioned the 1 series to take over for what the 3 series/M3 used to be?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by abe2

More disheartening for me is the fact that according to Winding Road BMW is NOT going to be focusing on the 6-speed manual for the 135i, but introducing the 1 series with a new 6-speed automatic tranny for the US.

They do make it sound like there won't even be a manual option. But I sincerely doubt that is the case.

[ToddMcF2002]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

They do make it sound like there won't even be a manual option. But I sincerely doubt that is the case.

That is the kind of sad move Audi USA would make. Look at the current A4 in its first year - you could only get a manual in the weaker 2.0T. Every BMW model should have a 6spd option. That's one of the great things about BMW you should be able to count on. That and RWD.

God I hate progress. :mad:

[revah2]

Originally Posted by Caravello

If that's its weight, then forget it. What a pig.

The 135i weighs 3240 lbs. Still a pig but not 3440

[Venky]

1 series looks F-ugly.

[tdc]

The Sport Automatic is an option for the 1-series, just as it is an option on the 3-series. The US 135i will come with a 6-spd manual transmission as standard equipment, moonroof, M-Sport package, and upgraded brakes.

As for the 1-series replacing what the M3 used to be, I disagree. Now if they develop an M 135i then I can see it rekindling the spirit of what the original M3 was about. But until that happens, the regular 1-series is no replacement for an M car - past, present, or future.

As for the 1-series replacing what the 3-series used to be, I agree 100%. The 3-series has grown over the years that it has slotted into the category the E34 5-series occupied (heck, it's even frighteningly close in interior volume to the E39). Due to this growth, BMW needed a car that would fill the void left by the current 3-series and they are doing that with the 1-series.

So yes, the 1-series is not only replacing the 3-series in spirit it is replacing it literally in that category.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by revah2

The 135i weighs 3240 lbs. Still a pig but not 3440

Where do you get that figure from?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by tdc

Now if they develop an M 135i then I can see it rekindling the spirit of what the original M3 was about.

What would a M 135i have that the pending 135i won't? An LSD is about the only major thing I can think of. I suppose it won't have the bodywork of an M, but to me that is minor compared to the fact that it would have a turbo-charged motor which is distinctly not-M. They could fix that by using the S54 engine instead, but then that would be an M 132 I suppose.

[The CSL]

The 850CSI is an M-car in all but name. They could easily work on a 1-series without using the M1 name.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by abe2

I am curious what everyone thinks given what we have seen so far in reviews of the e92 M3. Obviously since the e30 M3 each successive model has grown in size, in cylinders, and from what I gather BMW has shifthed this e92 M3 to be more luxurous, less harsh for those who couldn't otherwise handle it, and more appealing to the general public instead of diehard racing fanatics. I bring up the question of the 1 series filling a void of what the 3 series used to be because BMW just recently launched some info on the 1 series on bmwusa.com. It seems like the are trying to sell the introduction of this car to the American public by comparing it to the 2002, which we all know was the predecessor to our beloved 3 series, and basically invented the sport sedan market. By only introducing the 1 series as a coupe in the US with the 128i and what is sure to be an absolutely ridiculous 135i, it seems like the performance numbers and the driving experience of this car will be something much more like the e30 M3 used to be. Given that the 135i will come with the M-sport package standard makes me think it will be an alternative for people who either (1) can't afford the M3 as it has increased in price and/or (2) prefer a smaller car that is more simple and more driver focused. I don't know if BMW plans to make an "M" version of the 1 series but the 135i by itself really seems like it is what the 3 series/M3 used to be. I was curious what everyone thought and hoped to spark a good conversation.

Absolutely....Here's the real deal. No LSD?? Who gives a damn. You don't need no stinking LSD unless you're on some tight little track. This car will be comparable to the E46 M3. Only thing hold the 135i back will be price and cooling.

[rpa]

So if the current 3-series has gorged itself up to the size of an old 5-series what happens when the current (future) 1-series gorges itself upto the current 3-series? Will BMW go for a -1 series?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by rpa

So if the current 3-series has gorged itself up to the size of an old 5-series what happens when the current (future) 1-series gorges itself upto the current 3-series? Will BMW go for a -1 series?

".5 Series"

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by rpa

So if the current 3-series has gorged itself up to the size of an old 5-series what happens when the current (future) 1-series gorges itself upto the current 3-series? Will BMW go for a -1 series?

Good question. I suppose they could create a zero series but that's not very marketable. Most likely they would use a letter like they do with the Z and X.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Where do you get that figure from?

I wouldn't call that a source! Your number is the right one!
1560kg = 3440 lbs

Best regards, south

[Robert]

There are rumors of a M1 lurking around for current generation 1 series but I dont think that will come until the refresh in 2011.

The 135i will come in manual and auto.

The 135i's dimension is closest to the old E46, but it's only 70-80lb more than the old e46.

[ZBMW]

I think TDC has it right. We just finished a 4000 mile trip in the e92 335i. The last big trip I made in a 3 series was in E36M3, which, at that time, was in the high range, pricewise, for the 3 series. Got beat up in the M3 - got cosseted in the 335i. Luxurious seats, comfortable ride, great sound system, excellent hvac and a killer engine. Of course it is also in the $45,000 range.
BMWAG put the E90's high enough in all categories to drive a Mac truck under the 3 series, although the 135 will do the job of filling that old marketing level just fine. Time and the market will decide if a hopped up version will appear, although I think we know one will.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by southlight

I wouldn't call that a source! Your number is the right one!
1560kg = 3440 lbs

Best regards, south

I thought so.
Was interested where he happened by his info. He hasn't been back....wonder why.

[tdc]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

What would a M 135i have that the pending 135i won't? An LSD is about the only major thing I can think of. I suppose it won't have the bodywork of an M, but to me that is minor compared to the fact that it would have a turbo-charged motor which is distinctly not-M. They could fix that by using the S54 engine instead, but then that would be an M 132 I suppose.

Well, I would think a NA motor would be first and foremost as that is the backbone of what an M car is about. So, the N54 engine would be out and perhaps the S54 out of the E46 M3 and M coupe/roadster. Or perhaps BMW will develop another motor specifically for the M135i.

Also, a LSD would be included as well. Maybe different body work to make it stand out more as an M car. Perhaps they would utilize some weight saving features such as a carbon fiber roof like on the upcoming E92 M3, lighter forged wheels would be a nice touch also. And of course, no run-flat tires. But again, this is all conjecture and speculation on our part despite the rumors out there.

As for the nomenclature, you have to remember that the N54 is still a 3.0L engine and BMW simply utilized the x35 moniker in order to differentiate it more from the x28 cars (even though in the US they are also 3.0L engines). I would think it sacrilege if BMW reused the M1 name if they do come out with an M version of the 1-series but unfortunately I don't call the shots. Personally, I would think an M135i would be just fine for the name.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by tdc

Personally, I would think an M135i would be just fine for the name.

Agreed on your other points, but I think that name would be really confusing. I mean it confused me - I assumed you were using it to denote that it had the same motor as the normal 135i. There's plenty of numbers out there to choose from if they don't want to just use M1. M2, for example, is short, sweet, and non-ambiguous.

[coolguy]

"Where do you get that figure from?"

Hi Epacy,

The weight incl 90% of fuel plus driver. But if I rem right I thought it was roughly 3270lbs for just the car.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by coolguy

"Where do you get that figure from?"

Hi Epacy,

The weight incl 90% of fuel plus driver. But if I rem right I thought it was roughly 3270lbs for just the car.

Of course it did. That is how BMW displays weight.

[gmund1948]

The cost of a 135 coupe is going to be $35K USD while the M-3 climbs into the $50s and $60Ks

The Europeans pay nearly twice what the the Americans do so a weak dollar is killing BMWs bottom line except for what they leveraged in exchange futures.

a M-3 in Great Britain costs 6oK Pounds or 120K USDollars

How many Americans will spend 120 large for an M-3 not me

Porsche built the Cayman

Maybe BMW is following suit

I have driven a race prepared Diesel 1 hatch and it handles well

It was like driving an E-30 Evo (only better mileage) and not so high reving

Maybe BMW is trying to do the right thing making a car you can afford

[herbz]

the early days of BMW are gone, in America, at least. this is why I currently drive a 21 year old e30. I don't care for what BMW has become in this country, because everything the Americans want - I just flat out don't care for. Heated seats, Idrive, expensive wood, 8 speaker stereos, iPods, A/C, power this, buttons to turn the car on, etc etc..... all this fancy wancy shit just doesn't matter to me.

I want a fun car to drive. Driving experience, steering feel, smooth shifters, thats all. The 1 series isn't it. Too heavy. The 1 series-2002 thing was a marketing scheme. The 1 series is still a pig at over 3300lbs. The back sure looks nice, but the front is the same, slanted headlight BS, ugly ass styling they ruined BMW's looks with. The 2001 E46 was the last year that the 3 series looked good. Ever since the japanese e46 "facelift" they've been ugly. Lets face it.

Ever since the e46 they've also been too heavy. The 1 series isn't really an improvement in that regard. If that's the best BMW can do, don't hope for anything remotely similar to the e30, ever again.

Porsche is just an all out better option these days for driving experience. Yeah it's $$$ but at least Porsche doesn't give in to the Japs and style their cars like ass.