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10-19-2010, 07:18 PM | #133 | |
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I dont know why people are so shocked, the death of the manual transmission is inevitable. People need to also get used to F/I'd engines because i'm not sure where you plan on going. Mercedes is doing the same thing. Audi maybe? |
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10-19-2010, 08:04 PM | #134 | ||||
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Good info and discussion.
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-Brakes -Wheels -Tires -Seats -Sport mode traction/stability control system -Differential Add these to your list and keep in mind a major part of the unibody is different as well and you have a pretty enormous difference.
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10-19-2010, 08:07 PM | #135 | |
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hopefully manuals will still be around then.....
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10-19-2010, 08:45 PM | #136 | |
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10-19-2010, 09:12 PM | #137 | |
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I forgot I needed to include smileys and LOL's with this group...
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10-19-2010, 09:27 PM | #138 | |
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Lightness. This is such a huge area with many benefits. I really hope BMW gets on board with making progress in this area rather than going bigger and fatter. DCT only or not, FI or not, if the engine performs well, has good dynamics (although 8,000+ RPM is just hard to give up--I do miss that from the S65), and doesn't suffer from HPFP disease I would be happy to keep an open mind about the new M3 (or any BMW) if they worked to reduce weight. If not, well, I'm done with them. Aside from the handling advantages there are the efficiency advantages as well as the "faster" advantages no matter what engine is in the car. I have yet to see anything, rumor or otherwise, to support the idea that BMW is committed to a diet plan for their cars (unless I missed the memo). I really hope this changes as the company has produced so many great cars. Their competitors seem to get it. I got back from the Porsche dealer today and my SA was talking about his training session on the latest Cayenne--how they drove home the brand's decision to work towards lighter cars and means to better dynamics, lower emissions, and above all better performance. He pulled two bolts out of his desk--the old Cayenne engine mount bolt and the new one. The new one is like a feather while the old one is heavy. I'd guess the new one weighs about a 1/3 as much as the old one. Apparently going with lighter bolts cut 20 pounds just around the engine alone. Whether this is actual "company policy" is probably debatable (I have no reason not to believe him, but I don't have "documents" so it's not proof). Nevertheless it was an interesting discussion, and the new Cayenne is 400 pounds lighter than the prior model so there is some reason to think Porsche is committed to making inroads in weight reduction as a core strategy. I wish BMW would do the same as I'd be happy to end up in a new BMW again someday if that were the case. |
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10-20-2010, 02:50 AM | #139 |
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so much is changing with the m division. all this change is happening so fast that its hard to swallow (thats what she said )
like what fin said, the weight issue is a concern. im sure its still up in the air (with the engine not even been decided upon) but i hope they at least cut some weight off. im surprised other companies are increasing the size of their cars and adding more features but reducing the weight. im no engineer, but i for sure can appreciate it. im not sure how strong the carbon fiber that bmw will use in the future, but i feel like a step in the right direction is to use carbon fiber everywhere. they are already saving money from modding the n55 engine. with all due respect, you know nothing about this. |
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10-20-2010, 05:11 AM | #140 |
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Seems my initial post was removed, apologies for being a smart ass...
But as was noted several times Ironring Racing, you are missing a lot, and your statement that a 335 is a simple suspension mod away from an M3 is off the wall. You should have expected a mass of flame-ish comments from that statement alone, despite your "credentials." Sorry, but everyone is a know-it-all on the internet... Didn't expect this thread to turn into another DCT vs. 6MT debate, but it seems it has... Guys, it's a personal preference. You drive the car how YOU want to drive it. I chose a DCT because I enjoy gadgets and neat tech toys. I am sure I would have been happy with a 6MT as well, but the DCT is a blast too. Just my PERSONAL preference...
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10-20-2010, 08:06 AM | #141 | ||||||||
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10-20-2010, 08:19 AM | #142 |
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I do applaud BMW for always being leaders with each generation of their cars.
Will be interesting to see what they come up with. All i know is that pricing better not fly into the 80k region.
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10-20-2010, 08:37 AM | #143 | |
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Even if climate change is not true, petro will eventually run out on this planet. It is a finite resource. Your comment couldn't have been filled with any more ignorance.
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10-20-2010, 09:24 AM | #144 |
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I don't care how good it is, no manual means I'll be back in a VW/Audi, mostlikely an S4, when the time comes. DCT only is pure garbage.
And THREE turbos??? They can't even designa fuel pump to supply ONE without taking a shit. How are they going to feed a trio of them? |
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10-20-2010, 09:26 AM | #145 | |
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10-20-2010, 02:00 PM | #146 | |||
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Again, (Beating the horse, not repost) Quote:
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I'm not picking on the M3, or pushing the 335. I've complemented both cars, in case you missed the math, that includes the M3. What I'm complaining about, and using the 335/M3 as my example, is the increasing trend toward the M3 not being differentiated enough from the regular 3 series. The news that the next M3 engine will be, just like the X5/6M's, just a modded regular block, instead of a unique, special M engine, just continues the trend. What I'm saying is the same as you guys, I don't like it. I personally think there should be more of a difference, and that the M3 should be heads and shoulders above the rest of the line. If that was the case, even the idea of this comparison would be laughable. We all want the same thing here. I think you misread my post, we're both agreeing a bore increase alone isn't likely.
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10-20-2010, 03:12 PM | #147 | |
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In any case, though, the fact is that reaching 3.5L with a bore increase alone isn't just unlikely, its actually impossible with the current N55 (or N54, or N53, or N52, etc) block. According to the displacement calculator I linked to earlier, the minimum bore size for a 3.5L I6 that uses the 89.6mm stroke of the current 3L N55 would be 90.4mm. Obviously you cannot bore a block with 90mm bore centers to 90.4mm. Now, it's true that both bore and stroke could be increased instead. But as I already explained, even if they increase the bore to a 86.4mm - a size seen only in the iron block 3.2L S54 - a 98.1mm stroke is required to get to 3.5L. That's still way oversquare and a stroke that long is going to make operating at even the relatively low 7000 RPM redline of other modern BMW engines a dubious task indeed. Simply put, there's a good reason why BMW has not increased the displacement of their modern I6 beyond 3L to date. It's because it is just not practical to do so. |
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10-20-2010, 03:27 PM | #148 |
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We agree.
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10-20-2010, 06:56 PM | #149 | |
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Best regards, south
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10-20-2010, 07:16 PM | #150 | |
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And I never did. CA
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10-20-2010, 07:22 PM | #151 |
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According to BMW 80% of the parts in the M3 are not interchangable with the 335i.
I would assume that a large percentage of the parts count would be in the the engine and transmission, CA
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10-20-2010, 07:58 PM | #152 |
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E90/E92 M3:
Finally, here's a heads-up for everybody disdaining BMW M's decision to turn away from high-revving, naturally aspirated, engines: You better be quick to put in your order for an E9x M3. The rumor has it that the E9x M3 ends production in 2011, including the E92 and E93 M3. UPDATE: See SCOTT's comment on this, specifically doubting 'DCT only' and the introduction of the F30 M3, here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...57#post8179457 UPDATE 2: SCOTT's comment on the E9x M3 production ends: Does it mean the e90 m3 will end november 2011 or 2010? Best regards, south[/QUOTE] |
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10-21-2010, 08:22 AM | #153 |
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I'm not sure how you are getting confused, but there is simply no chance that the E90 M3 is exiting next month. It will end late next year as all E90/E91 production is tapered off and the platform is retired.
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10-21-2010, 02:29 PM | #154 |
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Front and rear subframes are different part numbers but I think they are so close that to call the truly different would be a misrepresentation.
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