2015 Hellcat vs 2015 C7 Z06

[okusa]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Unless the car is engineered to be forced induction.

Using your mentality, the new m3/m4 has poor balance as well.

Not sure what that means.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Wow, your post just gave me a reality check. Almost EVERY SINGLE high performance car out there is forced induction. Its almost sad... By 2020 all consumer sports cars will most likely be forced induction

There are cars that are staying NA, but you will inevitably lose the power battle. Audi R8, Ferrari 458, Lamborghini Hurcan, Aston Martin, Lexus RCF, Viper, Mustang GT350.

They are out there, but it becomes more about the subjective feel rather than the performance (which still doesn't exactly suck, BTW). Not unlike the manual gearbox in this day and age.

As someone who owns both a high tech beast (S6 has AWD, dual clutch and TTV8), and a NA, manual, RWD M3; each has its appeal. The huge swell of turbo torque in the S6 will make you giggle silly, but I can extract all the car's performance while sipping a latte. The M3 is far more engaging an experience.

I still contend that when we compare cars of this caliber, however, we are splitting hairs. They are all good.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Wow, your post just gave me a reality check. Almost EVERY SINGLE high performance car out there is forced induction. Its almost sad... By 2020 all consumer sports cars will most likely be forced induction

by 2020 they will be electric

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by okusa

Not sure what that means.

What i'm saying is that if you have a car built to be naturally aspirated, then add 100+ lbs of forced induction hardware to the front of the vehicle, that will naturally upset the balance intended by the designers.

However, if you have a vehicle designed originally to have a forced induction engine, then that extra weight will be compensated for.

Refer to previous comments on why I wrote what I did.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by pgviper

What i'm saying is that if you have a car built to be naturally aspirated, then add 100+ lbs of forced induction hardware to the front of the vehicle, that will naturally upset the balance intended by the designers.

However, if you have a vehicle designed originally to have a forced induction engine, then that extra weight will be compensated for.

Refer to previous comments on why I wrote what I did.

I assume you either haven't driven or been in a blown M3 on the track because although your response may be theoretically sound it couldn't be more inaccurate in actuality.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by okusa

I assume you either haven't driven or been in a blown M3 on the track because although your response may be theoretically sound it couldn't be more inaccurate in actuality b

You are correct, I haven't been.

But can you really sit here and tell me that a blown e9x M3 has just as good or better track manners than a stroked M3???

I understand that 100 pounds of extra hardware is what... less than 3% of the cars overall weight but its the placement of this weight that makes a difference. Up high over front axle (blower) and in the nose of the car ahead of the front axle (intercooler). Neither of these scenarios are ideal for racing a car. I'm not saying that there is a significant difference but what I am implying is that the extra power perhaps may be exhibiting a false sense of equivalent balance / cornering and braking composure.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by pgviper

You are correct, I haven't been.

Then it's really pointless as this is merely a theoretical discussion for you.

Originally Posted by pgviper

But can you really sit here and tell me that a blown e9x M3 has just as good or better track manners than a stroked M3???

Stroked? You are adding facts all of a sudden? Forgetting the stroked addition, yes I can tell you with 100% certainty that the track manners are not just as good but better. I have driven MANY track days both NA and blown and blown > NA.

Originally Posted by pgviper

I understand that 100 pounds of extra hardware is what... less than 3% of the cars overall weight but its the placement of this weight that makes a difference. Up high over front axle (blower) and in the nose of the car ahead of the front axle (intercooler). Neither of these scenarios are ideal for racing a car. I'm not saying that there is a significant difference but what I am implying is that the extra power perhaps may be exhibiting a false sense of equivalent balance / cornering and braking composure.

Again, you would need to actually take one on the track. There is no way you would notice the addition of the blower causing any sort of impact on "equivalent balance / cornering and braking composure."

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by okusa

Then it's really pointless as this is merely a theoretical discussion for you.



Stroked? You are adding facts all of a sudden? Forgetting the stroked addition, yes I can tell you with 100% certainty that the track manners are not just as good but better. I have driven MANY track days both NA and blown and blown > NA.



Again, you would need to actually take one on the track. There is no way you would notice the addition of the blower causing any sort of impact on "equivalent balance / cornering and braking composure."

1) This is a forum so in fact I am asking you a theoretical question...

2) You never answered my question, I'm sure you have done track days N/A and supercharged but have you ever done any in a stroked M3. I would like to know if you hold the same opinion after experiencing similar power outputs of a supercharged M3 but without the extra weight... If you have, then I will take your opinion seriously, until then. We can both say that neither of us have the experience necessary to draw a conclusion.

If you think that adding an extra 100+ pounds to the nose of a vehicle does NOT change the handling characteristics of the car then you must also believe that 100 pounds of weight loss are insignificant as well... I think most will disagree with you on that.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by pgviper

1) This is a forum so in fact I am asking you a theoretical question...

2) You never answered my question, I'm sure you have done track days N/A and supercharged but have you ever done any in a stroked M3. I would like to know if you hold the same opinion after experiencing similar power outputs of a supercharged M3 but without the extra weight... If you have, then I will take your opinion seriously, until then. We can both say that neither of us have the experience necessary to draw a conclusion.

If you think that adding an extra 100+ pounds to the nose of a vehicle does NOT change the handling characteristics of the car then you must also believe that 100 pounds of weight loss are insignificant as well... I think most will disagree with you on that.

I Think it's more in the range of 60-70lbs that you add with a VT2 kit and 40-50lbs with a VT1(non intercooled), not +100lbs. It probably still upset the balance of the car a little, but not to the point it would'nt be worth the 150-250hp gain.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I Think it's more in the range of 60-70lbs that you add with a VT2 kit and 40-50lbs with a VT1(non intercooled), not +100lbs. It probably still upset the balance of the car a little, but not to the point it would'nt be worth the 150-250hp gain.

That makes total sense! I'm not disagreeing with the other guy at all. My point is that YES it upsets the balance intended by the engineers BUTTTT the extra power heavily outweighs these symptoms.

My point about the stroker (also why its so expensive) is that you get the extra power WITHOUT the extra weight. I think for someone who owns a supercharged M3, if you want to see how the handling characteristics of your car have possibly changed, drive in a similarly equipped stroker car. Not everyone has the opportunity to do this but I don't think its possible to say that there are NO effects.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by pgviper

That makes total sense! I'm not disagreeing with the other guy at all. My point is that YES it upsets the balance intended by the engineers BUTTTT the extra power heavily outweighs these symptoms.

My point about the stroker (also why its so expensive) is that you get the extra power WITHOUT the extra weight. I think for someone who owns a supercharged M3, if you want to see how the handling characteristics of your car have possibly changed, drive in a similarly equipped stroker car. Not everyone has the opportunity to do this but I don't think its possible to say that there are NO effects.

You are totally right about the stroker being better for track then a blower, and not only because of weight distribution but also because of the colder intake and engine temps, as far as power gain though, they are not in the same league.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by pgviper

That makes total sense! I'm not disagreeing with the other guy at all. My point is that YES it upsets the balance intended by the engineers BUTTTT the extra power heavily outweighs these symptoms.

My point about the stroker (also why its so expensive) is that you get the extra power WITHOUT the extra weight. I think for someone who owns a supercharged M3, if you want to see how the handling characteristics of your car have possibly changed, drive in a similarly equipped stroker car. Not everyone has the opportunity to do this but I don't think its possible to say that there are NO effects.

Okay, I'll revise my statement. If the "balance intended by the engineers" has been upset, I sure as heck can't tell. All I know is that the car is way more fun, feels incredibly balanced and I've picked up about 3 seconds on a 2.68 mile track.

[URBAN LEGEND]

The C7 Z06 owner is in this thread if you care for facts.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...cat-video.html

The Vette ran 10.93 earlier that day.

[whats77inaname]

From someone that owns a C7 Z06....reviews from the track aren’t flattering….
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=10

specifics:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=27

Yikes.

[Longboarder]

Are Hellcats even fast bro?

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Are Hellcats even fast bro?

As long as you follow the 7 commandments

[TommyLights]

I guess our supercharged M's aren't a good match. I lost to an auto Hellcat several times last week, from a stop. Kept pulling on me about 2-3 cars every time. It was fairly even on the highway. I'm running the VF 620 with no cats. Seemed like no effort on his part with the auto.

[rixride]

Who cares. :

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Originally Posted by rixride

Who cares. :

Obviously you do since you opened this thread and posted in it.

[M3Bimmer77]

Get the Wrangler