slcook54 - Track Journal

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

Nice, hope to see you around VIR or CMP. I'm in Charleston.

Lucky you.. I was just down in Charleston in the middle of August. It's a truly gorgeous town to live. I once lived in Mount Pleasant for a couple or three years after emigrating from England in 1984. IMO Charleston is unlike any other city in America with its combination of revolutionary and civil war history, cobble stone streets, water front - as well as the olde towne EU influenced type architecture. It's a beautiful place. I don't get out to VIR or CMP as much as I once did (or would like), but Road Atlanta is fairly close (1.5hrs away). I did a lot of testing professionally at those circuits in my younger days.

[slcook54]

Totally agree. I'll likely turn it off on my next outing regardless.

In addition to that, autocross and skidpad will be on the docket soon also.

[slcook54]

Prior to the Day

The car went through a series of changes as described in the previous post. The end result was insane. From the seats, suspension arms, stiffer springs, solid bushings, shock revalve, sway bars and 70lbs of weight reduction, the car is on an entirely different level.





Pros

- Drivetrain, the solid Bimmerworld subframe bushings and poly differential bushings removed a ton of slop, which is prominent during shifting. The DCT moves through the gears significantly smoother. There used to be drivetrain lag between shifts, it’s now instant

- The car feels extremely flat now through cornering and the body roll was significantly reduced. I’m attributing this to the sway bars, stiffer springs (685/1000) and the SPL/FallLine arms

- The seats transform the experience, your body isn’t moving around and you can feel the car adjusting directly to your inputs

- With the addition of the ½ cage, seats and removing the rear seats I dropped another 70lbs for a total of 3,397lbs with approximately 15 gallons of fuel on board. The acceleration improvement was tangible.

- Braking, the behavior of the car under braking was also improved, the car is now settling more uniformly versus pitching forward so aggressively.

Cons

- The car is now significantly stiffer and unforgiving on the street with the caveat that I live in San Francisco. My back started to spasm on the 60 minute drive home from the TC Design. I bought the lumbar pads and kidney pads from Race Tech and also reclined the seat one notch and that helped quite a bit, but it’s still a rough ride. If I was trailering and the car saw no street time, I wouldn’t complain, but I think I went a tad overboard in the compromise department. I may experiment with the Recaro Profi XL in the future to see if that helps and potentially soften the springs rates.



- The ½ cage made the wheel transportation a bit complicated, I ended up doing two in the rear and two in the front seat, which prevented me from being able to see the passenger side mirror. It’s not the end of the world, but annoying nonetheless.

10/23/22 - Track Day #15

Yesterday (10/23/22) was my 15th day at Laguna and also the last Laguna day for a while as it shuts down for six months starting 11/1. It felt like the culmination of my first season of tracking. On the balance of everything, I am proud of my progression as a driver and the build overall.

I went into this day with a lot of changes to the car, ½ cage, all new suspension arms, harnesses, HANS device, and new alignment specs. On top of that, I decided it was time to turn off traction control. This is a big decision and everyone has different approaches, but I’m happy with how I approached it and don’t think I should have done it sooner.

Euro MDM is restrictive, but it does allow for some slip angle and lets your hands react when the rear kicks out. With that said, I’ve never spun a single time (in the E92) and I spun coming out of T11 in my first session (video below), which is the only 2nd gear corner at Laguna for me. A little bit faster and I’m going head first into the wall. I shook it off, drove into the hot pit and chatted with the marshal. I told him it was my first time turning off TC and he said, “Get back out there man, brush yourself off and go.”

I was a bit shaken after that, which is what I needed. It’s amazing how quickly my throttle inputs adjusted after becoming a bit more apprehensive. My input, while hesitant, immediately became smoother, but I was slower to throttle and slower throughout the day.

Prior to my spin, I was able to get within 1.1 seconds of my PB with a 1:43.6 and was happy with that after admitting to myself that I needed to take a step backwards to go forward again.

I underappreciated how much MDM was intervening, it felt like a completely different car. The rear felt especially light to me. I didn’t notice any discernible difference under braking and didn’t have to adjust anything there. Throttle was much more delicate and required more patience than I’d become accustomed to, I had to unwind the habit of being able to stab the throttle and let MDM intervene and manage the car for me.

It was great meeting djschmitt & melanthius

What’s Next

After this weekend, I feel like I now own a legitimate track tool. Now it’s time to start putting in work as a driver and stop messing with the setup. I have full bimmerworld aero sitting in the next room, but would like to put in another 8-10 days before adding it, famous last words, I know.

With Laguna closing, I’m pivoting to running Thunderhill East, with the next day around on the corner on 11/10.

Brakes

After going back and forth with Essex and input from jritt@essex, I decided to pick up a 9668 kit and will be removing the 9660 kit and selling it to a friend. The difference in caliper and pad size is significant. I’m happy to take a small weight penalty for a reduction in consumables cost and increased longevity. I'm planning to run a 7.5mm spacer to make it fit with the E88's.



18mm vs. 25mm



I also corded the NT01, it’s possible that this might have been impacting my pace also? I don’t know for sure, but I ordered a new set of RE71RS to try next. I will say that I enjoyed the NT01’s significantly more at 37-38psi hot. There was still some mushiness under braking, but it was materially reduced at the higher pressure.

[slcook54]

Fast Lap: 1:43.61. Definitely not my cleanest driving and let the F80 pass on the front straight, was roughly 8mph slower going into T2 and slower throughout other corners compared to prior outings, specifically in T6 and T9.

Sorry for the odd camera angle, I totally forgot to align it before the first session.

[slcook54]

T11 Spin @ 1:35

No real surprises here, I was gearing up to pass the Miata and didn't track out and instead tried to setup inside way too early and got back to throttle with way too much steering angle. Nice wake up call, no issues here the rest of the day.

[DRLane]

I use one of these behind my back - Significant improvement to comfort on longer drives to/from in the containment seat.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=1059

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I use one of these behind my back - Significant improvement to comfort on longer drives to/from in the containment seat.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=1059

Ya, I bought something similar from Race Tech, check out the new picture above (late edit), it's not expensive and specific to the 4100 W&T seat. Velcros right in. I think I'll grab one more of the horizontal cushions.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by slcook54

Ya, I bought something similar from Race Tech, check out the new picture above (late edit), it's not expensive and specific to the 4100 W&T seat. Velcros right in. I think I'll grab one more of the horizontal cushions.

That's nice! Heading to their site now, ha

[RickyBobby]

I like your general approach to this.
Can you talk more about the Ohlins dedicated track setup? I figured it would be harsh on the street given the spring rates, but how was it behaving on track? Was it well dampened? Was the balance good and are you glad you changed from your old setup?

I am considering the dedicated track setup for a different car of mine but the high spring rates are leading me to believe that it is not streetable enough for my use case.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Welcome to the TCD family!! Just wait till phase 2,3,4 and beyond!! I'm working to phase 3 across this and next year

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

I like your general approach to this.
Can you talk more about the Ohlins dedicated track setup? I figured it would be harsh on the street given the spring rates, but how was it behaving on track? Was it well dampened? Was the balance good and are you glad you changed from your old setup?

I am considering the dedicated track setup for a different car of mine but the high spring rates are leading me to believe that it is not streetable enough for my use case.

Yes, it felt good on track but it's extremely stiff on the street.

If I was starting from scratch, personally I'd follow the recommendation of the local race shop that I'm partnering with. As my build has progressed, I've leaned toward heavily trusting both TC Design and Phil at Bimmerworld. They both run MCS. There is something to be said about that.

With that said, I think suspension is probably over debated and not the thing that is slowing drivers down. KW / Ohlins / MCS all have legitimate offerings. It's finding the shop that can get it to work together.

I may swap the softer springs back on in the future and see what that feels like. Barry revalved the shocks for the stiffer springs, so there will be a mismatch there. Keep in mind a lot of my harshness is also attributable to my new seats which are fixed and bolted directly to side mounts on the floor.

[RickyBobby]

Agreed, TC and BW are fantastic. I've worked with both of them and their results speak for themselves.

[spooni]

Originally Posted by slcook54

Prior to the Day

The car went through a series of changes as described in the previous post. The end result was insane. From the seats, suspension arms, stiffer springs, solid bushings, shock revalve, sway bars and 70lbs of weight reduction, the car is on an entirely different level.





Pros

- Drivetrain, the solid Bimmerworld subframe bushings and poly differential bushings removed a ton of slop, which is prominent during shifting. The DCT moves through the gears significantly smoother. There used to be drivetrain lag between shifts, it’s now instant

- The car feels extremely flat now through cornering and the body roll was significantly reduced. I’m attributing this to the sway bars, stiffer springs (685/1000) and the SPL/FallLine arms

- The seats transform the experience, your body isn’t moving around and you can feel the car adjusting directly to your inputs

- With the addition of the ½ cage, seats and removing the rear seats I dropped another 70lbs for a total of 3,397lbs with approximately 15 gallons of fuel on board. The acceleration improvement was tangible.

- Braking, the behavior of the car under braking was also improved, the car is now settling more uniformly versus pitching forward so aggressively.

Cons

- The car is now significantly stiffer and unforgiving on the street with the caveat that I live in San Francisco. My back started to spasm on the 60 minute drive home from the TC Design. I bought the lumbar pads and kidney pads from Race Tech and also reclined the seat one notch and that helped quite a bit, but it’s still a rough ride. If I was trailering and the car saw no street time, I wouldn’t complain, but I think I went a tad overboard in the compromise department. I may experiment with the Recaro Profi XL in the future to see if that helps and potentially soften the springs rates.



- The ½ cage made the wheel transportation a bit complicated, I ended up doing two in the rear and two in the front seat, which prevented me from being able to see the passenger side mirror. It’s not the end of the world, but annoying nonetheless.

Track Day #15

Yesterday (10/23/22) was my 15th day at Laguna and also the last Laguna day for a while as it shuts down for six months starting 11/1. It felt like the culmination of my first season of tracking. On the balance of everything, I am proud of my progression as a driver and the build overall.

I went into this day with a lot of changes to the car, ½ cage, all new suspension arms, harnesses, HANS device, and new alignment specs. On top of that, I decided it was time to turn off traction control. This is a big decision and everyone has different approaches, but I’m happy with how I approached it and don’t think I should have done it sooner.

Euro MDM is restrictive, but it does allow for some slip angle and lets your hands react when the rear kicks out. With that said, I’ve never spun a single time (in the E92) and I spun coming out of T11 in my first session (video below), which is the only 2nd gear corner at Laguna for me. A little bit faster and I’m going head first into the wall. I shook it off, drove into the hot pit and chatted with the marshal. I told him it was my first time turning off TC and he said, “Get back out there man, brush yourself off and go.”

I was a bit shaken after that, which is what I needed. It’s amazing how quickly my throttle inputs adjusted after becoming a bit more apprehensive. My input, while hesitant, immediately became smoother, but I was slower to throttle and slower throughout the day.

Prior to my spin, I was able to get within 1.1 seconds of my PB with a 1:43.6 and was happy with that after admitting to myself that I needed to take a step backwards to go forward again.

I underappreciated how much MDM was intervening, it felt like a completely different car. The rear felt especially light to me. I didn’t notice any discernible difference under braking and didn’t have to adjust anything there. Throttle was much more delicate and required more patience than I’d become accustomed to, I had to unwind the habit of being able to stab the throttle and let MDM intervene and manage the car for me.

It was great meeting djschmitt & melanthius

What’s Next

After this weekend, I feel like I now own a legitimate track tool. Now it’s time to start putting in work as a driver and stop messing with the setup. I have full bimmerworld aero sitting in the next room, but would like to put in another 8-10 days before adding it, famous last words, I know.

With Laguna closing, I’m pivoting to running Thunderhill East, with the next day around on the corner on 11/10.

Brakes

After going back and forth with Essex and input from jritt@essex, I decided to pick up a 9668 kit and will be removing the 9660 kit and selling it to a friend. The difference in caliper and pad size is significant. I’m happy to take a small weight penalty for a reduction in consumables cost and increased longevity. I'm planning to run a 7.5mm spacer to make it fit with the E88's.



18mm vs. 25mm



I also corded the NT01, it’s possible that this might have been impacting my pace also? I don’t know for sure, but I ordered a new set of RE71RS to try next. I will say that I enjoyed the NT01’s significantly more at 37-38psi hot. There was still some mushiness under braking, but it was materially reduced at the higher pressure.

Looking good!

Those tires were well past their prime 71RS is another leap in tire. spxxx just put his on and they seem to be seriously fast, but then again he is seriously fast. NT01 is a dinosaur compared to what's out there now. I wouldn't doubt if the 71RS will net 3-4+ secs over tired NT01s. Lifespan is probably going to be half, tho.

Definitely take off DSC and relearn driving out it to some degree. I did that earlier this year and I feel like a completely different driver. MDM is very intrusive and ingrains bad habits. Hope to see ya out there soon!

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by slcook54

Brakes

After going back and forth with Essex and input from jritt@essex, I decided to pick up a 9668 kit and will be removing the 9660 kit and selling it to a friend. The difference in caliper and pad size is significant. I’m happy to take a small weight penalty for a reduction in consumables cost and increased longevity. I'm planning to run a 7.5mm spacer to make it fit with the E88's.

If your buddy bails on the brakes, I'm interested... the Stoptech knockback is super annoying. If I can't get the used PFC z54 kit on the marketplace I might pick these up!

Also, those tires are 100% impacting lap times. I would expect a faster lap time with MDM off but it'll likely take you a few days to get accustomed to the new limits.

Hope to see ya at the track once Laguna closes, gotta get a NorCal M3post-ers group down to Buttonwillow... I promise it's worth it. The track is excellent, even with the smell/dust/Motel6/etc/etc lol

[Redd]

Originally Posted by spxxx

If your buddy bails on the brakes, I'm interested... the Stoptech knockback is super annoying. If I can't get the used PFC z54 kit on the marketplace I might pick these up!

I had great results fixing knockback on my Brembo GT with brake residual pressure valves. You can get them from Wilwood/McGill. Cheap too,just need custom fittings/hoses. Zero downsides so far, but I've not tracked them. Ping me if you need details.

[leftfootbr8king]

I've had my Brembo GTS kit on track for 10 days and have yet to experience knock back.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong..

[melanthius]

That spin came out of nowhere! Glad it happened where you could get away safely

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

I've had my Brembo GTS kit on track for 10 days and have yet to experience knock back.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong..

i think knockback is sort of specific to certain conditions, like moderate speed, tighter esses or elevation changes while cornering.

[leftfootbr8king]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i think knockback is sort of specific to certain conditions, like moderate speed, tighter esses or elevation changes while cornering.

I run VIR most often. All those elements are present.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

I run VIR most often. All those elements are present.

I would certainly think it would be present after going up the esses then. Maybe you have kb springs?

[leftfootbr8king]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

I would certainly think it would be present after going up the esses then. Maybe you have kb springs?

No kb springs in the GTS kit. I know others experience it after the esses, but it's never been present when I brush the brakes at t10. Or anywhere else like roller coaster and hog pen.

Maybe my kit is faulty.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

No kb springs in the GTS kit. I know others experience it after the esses, but it's never been present when I brush the brakes at t10. Or anywhere else like roller coaster and hog pen.

Maybe my kit is faulty.

Only other guess I can come up with is you're using mdm and it's doing some front brake pinching going up the esses, essentially covering up the knockback.